Kitfox Series 7 versus Murphy Rebel with O-320

[Grant4ever]

Hey guys and gals,

I have a Series 7 with the 912ULS and while I haven't flown it yet, it looks like it's going to be lots of fun.

I'm also considering a Rebel project. I just like the idea of building something. The Rebel seems kind of like a bigger, heavier, beefier, more capable(?) aircraft, with a similar layout and executed in aluminum versus tube and fabric.

I'm not sure it makes sense to have two apples versus and apple and an orange, but hey, I sure do like the idea of taking something to the beach or Alaska.

Thanks for your feedback.

[jmodguy]

I am building a KF 5 and going with an IO-340...
My other project is a GP-4 that I have converted to a taildragger. It will have an IO-320.
Needed a taildragger trainer so I picked up the KF 5.
And yeah I like building too...
Jeff

[WWhunter]

Grant,

Hopefully Timberwolf will chime in here. He has a Rebel and I think he is happy with it. It is in a different class (in my opinion) than the Kitfox. I looked at several different builds before I settled on the Rebel. Even though I am currently flying a RANS S7 and a 172, I need to 'thin out the herd' a bit and try to get down to one plane. I personally feel the Rebel is a better all around type airplane that will fill my mission. It has decent 'bush plane' type performance characteristics and can still haul a respectible load, and best of all it is roomy!!

I have a Rebel kit, along with a set of the 1800 Murphy Amphibs, that I may be selling. Just haven't been able to bring myself to let it go yet.

[av8rps]

I have known 4 people over the years that had Rebels, 3 of them on floats, and none of them kept the plane.

Curious, I asked them all why they didn't stick with the Rebel, but never got a definitive or collective answer from them. But here is what I did get: One said performance was not good with the 0-320 and amphib floats, cruising only at 85 mph at 9 gph. Another said cockpit uncomfortable because you sit pretty flat on the floor compared to most other aircraft. Another with an 0-360 on amphibs said it had very poor load carrying ability and felt the wing was too short (same issue with the Murphy Moose, especially on floats). The last guy said he had to install an 0-320 because the 0-290 didn't have enough power on floats, and felt it just never met his overall expectations. All of them said the Rebel flew ok, but at the same time none of them raved about how much fun they are to fly (like most of us do with our Kitfoxes). I flew one with an 0-320 on Murphy amphibs and actually was thinking I might maybe want one (for pretty much same reasons you mentioned), but after flying it realized while it was overall ok, it just didn't excite me enough to want to own one.

For comparison, my Model 4 Kitfox amphib is way more fun to fly and outperforms the Rebel on less than half the fuel. And I'm pretty convinced if you built a new Kitfox Super Sport float plane with a 912 or 914, or if on wheels you equipped it with a 125+ hp aircraft engine, and made baggage as big as possible, you would have a better performing airplane than the Rebel. And it would burn less fuel, haul the same or more, could still be an LSA, and has the great feature of folding wings. And in a crash, the Kitfox has a chromoly steel fuselage (notice they use that in race cars, not aluminum or composite...).

I'm not bashing the Rebel, as overall I think they are good airplanes, and honestly have considered one. But compared to a late model Kitfox I really don't think there is a comparison. However, comparing a Kitfox to a lot of airplanes will be that way, as it has well above average performance for such low horsepower, and the fun factor is off the charts. That's probably why there are so many Kitfoxes out there, and so few Rebels. For similar money on the used market, and if I did'nt care about being a LSA, I'd go for a 0-360 powered older Glastar. But again, the Kitfox SS would be more fun and cost effective to own imho.

Take your Kitfox to that Alaskan beach. It will be the most fun you can have

[DesertFox4]

Thanks Paul for the report on the Rebel. Nice to hear from first hand experiences. While I've never flown one, I do watch a friend build his and I'd take the Kitfox six ways to Sunday on ease of build. Not sure I'll ever see his fly. You mentioned a Glastar which I do have experience in one on amphib floats. Not much of an float plane even with the O-360. Great aircraft on wheels though.
I did fly my brothers Rans S7 with Rotax 100hp. It climbs very well. Almost as good as my model 4. I can leave it pretty quickly in cruise and the controls feel very heavy compared to any Kitfox I've ever flown. Baggage capacity is less and I was not impressed with the cockpit ergonomics. Instrument panel is at full arms reach. My brother would love to change to the Kitfox throttle controls but Rans has no way to change that. He also had some wear on the landing gear attachment that needed welding reinforcing at last conditional inspection.

[WWhunter]

Av8rps,

WOW! While I have to utmost respect for you and your posts, that is the first time I have seen or read that much negativity on the Rebel. I have personally flown a Rebel and I absolutely loved it!! Felt much more like a sporty handling 172 class of plane verses the light loaded KF and RANS I have flown. The thing fly like it was on rails. Nothing close to what you have discribed. The few Rebels that I know of on amphibs will generally perform at or better than the well respected Super Cub. The cruise speeds I saw (on amphibs) was usually over 100 and I know of a couple that exceed that speed by a decent amount.

I really don't believe there is any one perfect plane and they all have something that is a compromise.

Another thing you will find is most of the Rebel's seem to end up in Canada or some other type of 'bush' area.

Not understanding the comment about the low seating as this is totally up to how the builder constructs hih/her seats. The seats in one of the Rebels I own are very similar to my 172. The KF seating sure isn't 'up there' either with the factory thin pad.

I have conversed with a couple (man/wife with two planes) that own a Rebel and a Carbon Cub. They use the Rebel for most of their travels and the CC is more of the man toy. I guess it all comes down to someones mission.

My mission is changing, the only reason I might be selling the Rebel. Health issues and eventually wanting to have only one plane that will be LSA complient.

While I am defending the Rebel, my next plane will either be a RANS S20 or the KF SS7.