Kitfox IV Speedster & learning to fly

[kl2657]

How difficult is it to learn to fly in a Kitfox IV Speedster? I've found a good deal on one and budget wise it fits the bill. My only concern is that with the shorter wings, it may be too high performance for a new pilot.

My plan would be to purchase the plane and then hire a CFI to train me in the plane. Your input is greatly appreciated.

Also, is the Speedster still STOL capable?

Thanks,

Jason

[Av8r3400]

A Speedster is still a very capable super-STOL plane if it was built light.

Learning to fly in it may be another story. (I'm assuming you have zero flight experience at this time.) These planes are not dangerous or difficult to fly, but you may be challenged to find a CFI that has the skill and experience needed to safely train you in a plane like this.

They are very short coupled and have a high power to weight ratio, making them potentially quite a handful in the takeoff roll and the landing roll out.

I've known of experienced tail-dragger pilots ground looping these little birds because they underestimated them (or over estimated their skill ).

[DesertFox6]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Kitfox, kl2657!

Either you're blessed with an incredibly good sense of judgment or your best set of airshow sneakers had a major, lace-threatening, blowout right in front of the Kitfox Kiosk at a major air show...and the rest of us can just imagine how THAT worked out!

Av8r3400 highlights a couple of concerns I share about taking INITIAL flight training in a Model IV Speedster. I've been flying mine for over 11 years now without having the compass go unexpectedly 180 degrees crazy on me, but that's not necessarily going to be the case with a novice aviator and that's where I gather you stand. (But you're in for an awful lot of fun! )

That said, I'm thinking you may have a hard time finding a CFI that's actually QUALIFIED to teach you in a Speedster, or any Kitfox; just another ASEL/CFI isn't where you want to venture your money or your life. If indeed we're talking flight instruction from the very start, you'll need a good ground school and an aircraft you can have somebody else fix for you while you learn. Please trust me on this; I've been flight-instructing in one thing or another for more years than I care to admit and we all want you to enjoy flying with us for many years to come.

I have no such concerns about taking such initial instruction (we should all have been so lucky!) in the latest models, like the Series 5 and later kits, and/or the Super Sport S-LSA. In fact, such from-the-ground-up training is available in a factory-built plane; check out GlassCockpitAviation.com (I can't seem to make that into link for you right now) and talk with CFI Paul Leadabrand. I think EVERYONE should be so fortunate as to learn stick and rudder skills in gliders and then move right into taildraggers...right after winning a major lottery.

Now, if no bonafide Kitfox CFIs pop up in this forum from the Jersey area to help you, I would recommend you investigate learning to fly in a taildragger, right there in New Jersey, at www.andoverflight.com. You can get a head-start by studying a video by one of their more prominent CFIs, Damian DelGaizo; his "Tailwheel 101" DVD is available through him at bushflying@earthlink.net, or through the Andover Flight Academy at the previously mentioned address. It's truly excellent.

Let us know what you decide. And please don't think we're trying to turn you off to flying a Kitfox Speedster; my wife is a Civil Air Patrol 182 pilot who's been flying with me all along and is currently getting her tailwheel endorsement from a local Super-Cub outfit instead of from her instructor-hubby. I want her to learn the tailwheel basics in that lumber-truck before I teach her how to handle the hot-rod!

That, and I'm pretty sure I'd be endangering a perfectly nice 40+ year marriage if I did otherwise!

Can anybody else more "Joy-zee-local" out there give Jason some help?

"E.T."

[kl2657]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Kitfox, kl2657!

Either you're blessed with an incredibly good sense of judgment or your best set of airshow sneakers had a major, lace-threatening, blowout right in front of the Kitfox Kiosk at a major air show...and the rest of us can just imagine how THAT worked out!

Av8r3400 highlights a couple of concerns I share about taking INITIAL flight training in a Model IV Speedster. I've been flying mine for over 11 years now without having the compass go unexpectedly 180 degrees crazy on me, but that's not necessarily going to be the case with a novice aviator and that's where I gather you stand. (But you're in for an awful lot of fun! )

That said, I'm thinking you may have a hard time finding a CFI that's actually QUALIFIED to teach you in a Speedster, or any Kitfox; just another ASEL/CFI isn't where you want to venture your money or your life. If indeed we're talking flight instruction from the very start, you'll need a good ground school and an aircraft you can have somebody else fix for you while you learn. Please trust me on this; I've been flight-instructing in one thing or another for more years than I care to admit and we all want you to enjoy flying with us for many years to come.

I have no such concerns about taking such initial instruction (we should all have been so lucky!) in the latest models, like the Series 5 and later kits, and/or the Super Sport S-LSA. In fact, such from-the-ground-up training is available in a factory-built plane; check out GlassCockpitAviation.com (I can't seem to make that into link for you right now) and talk with CFI Paul Leadabrand. I think EVERYONE should be so fortunate as to learn stick and rudder skills in gliders and then move right into taildraggers...right after winning a major lottery.

Now, if no bonafide Kitfox CFIs pop up in this forum from the Jersey area to help you, I would recommend you investigate learning to fly in a taildragger, right there in New Jersey, at www.andoverflight.com. You can get a head-start by studying a video by one of their more prominent CFIs, Damian DelGaizo; his "Tailwheel 101" DVD is available through him at bushflying@earthlink.net, or through the Andover Flight Academy at the previously mentioned address. It's truly excellent.

Let us know what you decide. And please don't think we're trying to turn you off to flying a Kitfox Speedster; my wife is a Civil Air Patrol 182 pilot who's been flying with me all along and is currently getting her tailwheel endorsement from a local Super-Cub outfit instead of from her instructor-hubby. I want her to learn the tailwheel basics in that lumber-truck before I teach her how to handle the hot-rod!

That, and I'm pretty sure I'd be endangering a perfectly nice 40+ year marriage if I did otherwise!

Can anybody else more "Joy-zee-local" out there give Jason some help?

"E.T."

Thanks for your input. Prior to stumbling onto the kitfox, I had run across Andover Flight Academy. I've spoken with them several times and they seem very knowledgeable at training tail draggers. They also have a really cool bush pilot course (something I'll think about later)... I'll ask them about prior experience in a Kitfox.

I did find a CFI out in Allentown, PA that has experience in a Kitfox. While it would be a drive to get out to, it's an option as well.

I'm not opposed to traveling out to someplace like AZ to learn to fly a Kitfox either .

Assuming that finding a Qualified CFI doesn't end up being an issue, would you still be concerned that a Speedster might be too much airplane to learn to fly in?

Thanks,

Jason

[Av8r3400]

I would have to echo DesertFox6 in saying it would be better to learn (earn your ticket) in a plane that is more "conventional". A plane that the CFIs you use will also be able teach you comfortably in. Starting in a plane that may require more skill than you (or your CFI) have currently will make success more likely.

Then doing a thorough transition (even up to 15 hours dual) into the Kitfox will be less stressful and more fun.

[wannafly]

I am a low time pilot with about 100 hrs in a cessna 150 before buying my kitfox. I took lessons in a taylorcraft for about 5 hrs. The instructor is a fantastic pilot and showed great skill in what he could do with his aircraft. He then took my kitfox IV Speedster out for about 2 hrs on his own and did lots of testing (landing and takeoffs) and made himself more aware of what a Kitfox is like before we went up and did some dual time. We had close to 5 hours dual before he said I was good to go on my own. I found the experience of the transition good probably because of the good instruction. I did this with subaru power on the nose. When I put the 912s in it was like starting over because of the increase in performance.
But what an amazing experience. best of luck in your training exercise

[Lion8]

Hey Jason. I'm from Salem, County, N.J. I'm in the middle of restoring a Model IV Speedster. Installing a Jabiru 2200 in it. I've read up on Andover and talked to the CFI via e-mail. Sounds like a good place to get your training. I found a CFI that trains in a Luscombe from Virginia. That is a side by side, stick, tail wheel. They teach in a J-3 cub tandem at Andover.
I can't train in mine as it goes back into phase1 testing after I put the new engine on it. If you take yours to Andover, I'd like to come up to see it. -Tom from Salem County.

[kitfoxnick]

Hey Tom,
How many hours are they requiring for your new phase 1? A lot of time they just give you 5 hrs to fly off.

[Av8r3400]

... I found a CFI that trains in a Luscombe from Virginia. That is a side by side, stick, tail wheel. They teach in a J-3 cub tandem at Andover. ...

A Freightliner has a steering wheel and a stick shift, but doesn't drive like a Ferrari.

This sounds like a great place to start, but a Kitfox/Avid is a lot different flying machine from a Luscombe, even a Vagabond (which is much 'sportier' and more similar to a KF/Avid).

These little planes demand some respect or they WILL bite you.

Just saying...

[akflyer]

Dont be an "Ice Road Trucker" If you learn to fly in the KF you will not know any difference, but your feet will be much more agile when you move into another airplane. Many Many people have built and learned to fly in the Avid or Kitfox line of aircraft. That was a major portion of the original intent of the design. During original conception it was not to allow older pilots who could not pass a physical anymore to transition into a light aircraft..

Saying that you should learn to fly in different plane first is like saying all drivers should only learn to drive using an automatic tranny, and later in your life you can learn to drive a stick shift.