Kitfox IV Speedster & learning to fly

[happiestflying]

Curious to see if, five years after posting this thread, you ever learned to fly, and if so, did you do it in a Speedster?

Bought a Speedster last summer in Colorado, and then flew it home a few weeks later. It's a wonderful bird, high performance, great looking. I was also curious about the STOL capabilities. Everybody doing back-country flying seems to want as much wing area as they can manage, which makes sense. The Speedster wing, at 28' or so versus 32' or so, would have, by rough calculation, about 12% less surface area, or higher wing loading.

I'm a relatively low time pilot (650 hrs) and I'm quite sure I'm not flying it as well as it can be flown, or as well as it deserves, but I'm working on getting steep and slow approaches with a power-assisted flare at the last moment. If I could add the power and also slam in some flaperons at the same time I would, but I have only one right hand, so I choose power. The steep approach should allow the least forward motion, and therefore a shorter landing roll.

Without getting into it too much, that's also the moment for some significant braking, which always raises the prop-strike risk, so I'm VERY careful about just how much brake I apply.

Having said all this, I've probably landed it safely in about 500-600' on concrete with the normal 90-80-70-60-over the numbers indicated airspeed kind of approach and no braking until late in the rollout. That's not impressive, and certainly is not back-country sandbar kind of performance, but still, it's a pretty quick stop.

I'm waiting on a fellow Kitfox guy nearby who has a VERY clever angle of attack indicator he made for his, which I'm hoping to duplicate. Once that's on my airplane, then I'm going to get serious about the steep and slow approach concept. Plus of course there's my mandatory re-reading of "Stick and Rudder".

Anyway, if you're still a member, I'd love to find out what happened in your flight training in a Speedster.

[kl2657]

Curious to see if, five years after posting this thread, you ever learned to fly, and if so, did you do it in a Speedster?

Bought a Speedster last summer in Colorado, and then flew it home a few weeks later. It's a wonderful bird, high performance, great looking. I was also curious about the STOL capabilities. Everybody doing back-country flying seems to want as much wing area as they can manage, which makes sense. The Speedster wing, at 28' or so versus 32' or so, would have, by rough calculation, about 12% less surface area, or higher wing loading.

I'm a relatively low time pilot (650 hrs) and I'm quite sure I'm not flying it as well as it can be flown, or as well as it deserves, but I'm working on getting steep and slow approaches with a power-assisted flare at the last moment. If I could add the power and also slam in some flaperons at the same time I would, but I have only one right hand, so I choose power. The steep approach should allow the least forward motion, and therefore a shorter landing roll.

Without getting into it too much, that's also the moment for some significant braking, which always raises the prop-strike risk, so I'm VERY careful about just how much brake I apply.

Having said all this, I've probably landed it safely in about 500-600' on concrete with the normal 90-80-70-60-over the numbers indicated airspeed kind of approach and no braking until late in the rollout. That's not impressive, and certainly is not back-country sandbar kind of performance, but still, it's a pretty quick stop.

I'm waiting on a fellow Kitfox guy nearby who has a VERY clever angle of attack indicator he made for his, which I'm hoping to duplicate. Once that's on my airplane, then I'm going to get serious about the steep and slow approach concept. Plus of course there's my mandatory re-reading of "Stick and Rudder".

Anyway, if you're still a member, I'd love to find out what happened in your flight training in a Speedster.

I did get my license in the Speedster (see earlier post in this thread). I never really explored the STOL characteristics that much of the plane. I flew it for two years and then parked it in a hangar where it has sat ever since. I ended up buying a Decathlon as a next plane. I really enjoyed that a lot more than I did the Speedster.

[happiestflying]

And thanks for the interesting reply. Also, reading a bit of your athletic background, it sounds like me only 25 years later; coached downhill racing, mountain biking, motorcycles, skid-steer loaders, etc.

So, if the Speedster is just sitting in the hangar, what's the chance you might sell it?

[Slyfox]

if you want the best landing in a speedster, be over the numbers at 50, higher then that and you bounce, the plane still wants to fly. I like 50 then float about 2 ft off the runway and wait for it to drop off and pull stick full back, nice pillow landing, at least for me.

[kl2657]

And thanks for the interesting reply. Also, reading a bit of your athletic background, it sounds like me only 25 years later; coached downhill racing, mountain biking, motorcycles, skid-steer loaders, etc.

So, if the Speedster is just sitting in the hangar, what's the chance you might sell it?

I would absolutely love to sell it. I would have done so long ago. Just haven't had the time needed to knock the dust off of it, put it back in service and list it on Barnstormers.

[av8rps]

I found this thread really interesting, but feel it necessary to reply for the sake of any newcomers considering owning a Kitfox;

#1 - Don't be scared of owning a Kitfox because they are hard to fly. THEY AREN'T. Kitfoxes are more sensitive on the controls compared to many GA type aircraft, but a typical pilot will get past that feeling usually in an hour of two. And once he does he normally finds himself liking the light, sensitive, sporty feel of the Kitfox.

#2 - I firmly believe if you learn to fly in a Kitfox you will be a better pilot than most. You have to "FLY" the Kitfox all the time, vs "driving around" the more typical GA type aircraft. In a very good way, the old saying of "You gotta fly it to the hangar door" applies to the Kitfox. Years ago, after 1300 hours in Avids and Kitfoxes I transitioned into a Pitts S-2. The instructor was amazed, telling me that I was the first person ever in his plane that could take off and land it unassisted. I'd like to be able to say that's because I'm a super-pilot, but I'm not. And while I did initially train in a J-3 Cub, a Piper Tomahawk, and later in a 172, a Warrior, and ultimately in a Arrow and 182, it was all the hours spent in my little short coupled 400 lb Avid Flyer that really taught me to fly. Oh, and back in 1986 I had to check myself out in it, as there were no instructors that knew anything about Avids or Kitfoxes. (in reality, I found it easier to fly than all the others because it had so much power, was super high performance, and was nearly stall proof).

#3 - Some people will perceive a Kitfox as difficult, but the reality is there are MANY aircraft much more difficult to fly. I thought I knew everything (hey, I could fly a Pitts ) when I bought my Lake Amphibian. But I learned quickly that I knew little. In the air and on the ground it was an easy airplane. But after a few sinus clearing water bounces causing complete control loss of the aircraft (and consequently scaring the be-jeezus out of me while I screamed for my mother ), I learned firsthand why it was so important to get the Lake Factory recommended 25-30 hour "Lake Amphib specific" checkout (note to self; you're damn lucky you survived all that...)

To better put all that into perspective, after 900 hours in my Lake, 26 hours in a Pitts, and more than 2000 hour in a variety of Avid, Kitfox, and Highlanders, along with a bunch of misc other aircraft, on a scale of zero to ten (10 being most difficult), here's how I would rank them for difficulty;

Conventional spam can trainers - a 1 to 2
A typical Kitfox (incl Speedster) - a 3 or 4
A 300+ HP Pitts S2 - a 7 or 8
A Lake Amphibian - an 8 or 9.

Don't believe that? Call your insurance man and ask him about insuring the aircraft I've described. The Kitfox will be the cheapest and easiest to obtain insurance for (except for the trainers), and will require the least amount of flight experience. And I probably under-rated the Lake, or maybe over-rated the Pitts?

After 41 yrs of flying, I've learned that in aviation all things are relative. And good and bad advice is all over the place.

#4 - The pilot and his attitude is a big part of it. Some like to be challenged and will desire to move into more and more challenging aircraft as they gain experience. But some never seem to get much past the trainers that they learned in, or derivatives of them. Either way is ok with me, but if seeking information about a specific aircraft you really need to look at how much experience in other airplanes the person advising you has had. Without experience in more difficult airplanes, they won't have a balanced perspective. What may be difficult to one may be easy to another...

#5 - One of the most important factors with the Kitfox genre is to make sure the tailwheel, and the landing gear are set up and working properly. I have flown Kitfoxes and Avid's (and recently a Highlander) that had bad tailwheels (and/or bad setups) on them, and I'm telling you NO ONE can fly them consistently safe. I'm not kidding, that is a huge issue, and was especially bad with Maule tailwheels. There are a bunch of guys that will laugh at that and say you just aren't a good pilot, but the fact is that once you experience one of those you will completely understand why I say what I do. I won't go into all that here as there is plenty of that discussion in the archives. But take my word on it, whenever I hear someone say how much trouble they are having with their Kitfox, invariably it will have a Maule tailwheel on it. You should not have to be Superman with a hairy chest to be able to handle a Kitfox. Most any average, properly trained pilot can fly one successfully.

I think it is cool that kl2657 went against the odds and got trained in his new Kitfox Speedster, and 2 years later transitioned into an aerobatic Decathalon. Good for him!

And what I think is funny, while most of us will look back at our early flying days and fondly remember our typical spam-can trainers, he's going to be thinking about that cute-but-cool little Kitfox Speedster that taught him to fly so well.

And I'm willing to bet he's already a better than average pilot too.

[kl2657]

I'm grateful that I learned to fly in a Kitfox. I do believe that I'm the better for it as a pilot. I will always have fond memories of my little red speedster.

I moved on to a Decathlon primarily because I wanted a plane where I could become proficient in spinning both upright and inverted. The aerobatic aspect was nice to learn as well and tons of fun.

[beeryboats]

This has been a great read tonight. I fall into a different group. I learned to fly in a Piper Vagabond, very similar to the KF IV in size and weight, back in 1983. I moved up into whatever Dad bought, Pa-16 Clipper, Varga, and a neat little Baby Great Lakes. Due to the death of my mother in laws husband in his Beech Bonanza, I've had my own airport for the last 17 years. I found a KF IV that needed a lot of TLC and I'm almost done fix'en stuff. I've got lots of tailwheel time, but lot's have changed in the regs. And I'm sure I need more than a little time in the air. I can't decide if I want to go through ground school again as it has been so long. I'm not scared of the Kitfox after flying a Baby Lakes, I'm just perplexed on going through ground school again. Then comes the big hurtle of finding someone to check me out in the KF.

[gregsgt]

I grew up in the co pilot seat of a P210 when my father was flying. I put a total of 30 hours or so training in a 172. I decided I wanted to go a different route and bought a Kitfox IV with the end goal of a light sport certificate. I've got a great instructor who is as excited to train me in the plane as I am to learn. He's put together a whole syllabus on the plane and training starts next week. I've flown the planes before and found them a joy to fly. It's more like driving a sports car as compared to a pickup truck.

[SkyPirate]

On my second kitfox and love them, my first was a model 2 built by a forum member thats a mechanic on the red bull team, wish I never sold it, and so does the builder, flying a model 5 now, a couple hundred hrs so far in the 5, did a 2400 nm cross country in it the first year I owned it, considering doing the Zipper kit on the 912UL ,. I have flown a 3 and 4 also,.. Great planes the kitfox line👍