Will I regret ordering a speedster?

[mrpilotron]

Hello all. I'm the typical newbie tire-kicker today. I am still working out what to build and would love some feedback on where my thoughts are at this point. Like most people at this stage, I have spent FAR too many hours reading forums, digesting various web sites, building pro/con lists, making spreadsheets of features, speeds, loads, engines, etc... There are just a few more factory visits left before I write that all-important deposit check.

I have flown everything from a powered parachute to a Cherokee and a lot of the slower airplanes were just more fun. I earned my instrument rating in a well-used PA-28-161 so I am very familiar with what those planes offer. I can always rent that plane if I need to fill 4 seats and go somewhere. I loved the visibility of a Rans S-12. The "pull up to avoid the cow" flying in a Challenger was certainly an interesting day, but there is just about zero chance my financial manager will agree to either of those and she needs to be 100% on board with whatever we decide on. For the last decade, I have been 90% sure I'd eventually build a Zenith CH650. My flight with Roger at their factory was very impressive. Then I was fortunate enough to meet Randy Schlitter (owner of RANS) who spent nearly 3 hours showing off and bragging about the wonderful ways they "mash, bend, squish, cut, and shape" metal. My favorite toy at his factory was the S-6ES, which is no longer in production. As much as I enjoyed the Rans factory tour, I kept going back to the CH-650. Mostly because I am comfortable doing sheet metal work and pulling rivets is easy. I briefly considered the STOL CH701, but my wife is only interested in an airplane as a way to get somewhere. She is not impressed by going 80. She can do that in her car. We also looked at the RV-12iS and it is more similar to the CH-650 than it is different. It's a wonderful little traveler that can also just putter around the pattern on a lazy afternoon.

Then along comes an endless string of You Tube videos. Anybody care to guess who kept popping up flying his Kitfox? Yeah... That guy... So I dusted off some really old brain cells that looked at an Avid Flyer about a million years ago and contrasted that to what I see in the Kitfox today. Man, what an evolution! I'm still not real sure about doing fabric work, but I suppose it's just a matter of taking some time to learn. I'm seriously considering building a Kitfox now instead of an all-aluminum plane. The SS7 just barely specs enough cruise speed to make the wife happy and it seems like a great way to drill some low-n-slow holes in the sky when she's not along. She was significantly more interested in the RV-9A cruise speed until she saw the typical cost to complete and build time required. I also appreciate some cruise speed because 2 of my favorite places to visit are 460 miles and 910 miles away in a straight line. It would be really nice to make those trips at 130 MPH without renting that Warrior or a 172.

Since I am ready to get started on this long-time dream project, I decided I should double check hanger availability at my local airport. It's not looking so good, but I have plenty of garage space and the airport is only 3 miles away. I am a pro with a welder so building a custom transport trailer is a 1-week project. No big deal. Suddenly, removable or foldable wings became a design feature that's pretty high on the list. Removable wings on the RV-12 or foldable on a Kitfox SS or Speedster. That's what it's down to. In evaluating the Speedster, it appears that there are a few minor aero mods on the tail (optional for the SS) and it looses a few feet of wing span. I assume it's the exact same airfoil, just less of it. Since the speedster has the same gross weight, it seems reasonable to assume that the higher wing loading will make turbulence slightly less turbulent. That is a HUGE thing for making my wife happy. Is a Speedster the Goldilocks solution that makes us both smile a little? Or is the longer wing of the SS a better overall choice so I can slow down a little more and just accept the extra 30 minutes of flight time required to finish that long cross-country flight that will only happen once per year? Or, perhaps I will go there more often if I can get there in half the time.

I know this got a little long, but I wanted to make sure I gave people enough background info to make an intelligent recommendation rather than just reply with what they built. I look forward to any suggestions.

[mattkalin]

Very Tough choice indeed. I think you have narrowed it down to Two Excellent Candidates. I am Building a Kitfox S7 STI and when completed will likely jump into building an RV-12 as well. Really comes down to what you prefer to work with. Wood/Fabric or Aluminum ? Both Kits are excellent and for support whether its here or Vansairforce.com is the best in the experimental category IMO. Another thing to consider is how often you will be visiting unimproved strips. While I have no doubt the RV will handle the grass fine. A Gravel Bar is a different deal. Be careful with watching too many Trent Palmer videos..... You will likely wind up in a Kitfox... Dont ask me how I know... good luck!

Came back to Edit my post.... Another thing I just thought of is your Build Timeframe. If you want to start building within the next 14 Months your going to be building a Vans... Pretty long Kitfox waitlist I hear.

[ken nougaret]

Scissor jack to lower tail. Homemade, removable contraption to attach strap to for pulling up on trailer.

[Benbell4140]

Having built an RV8 in the past, I much prefer tube and fabric. They are both great kits with very nice plans. I find the kitfox is much less mentally demanding to build. More enjoyable for me. Everyone has preferences though.


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[Maverick]

You won't be folding the wings on a Kitfox as often as you think. While it is an advertised feature it shouldn't be considered as the norm. You have to drain the fuel tanks empty each time. It is good if you need to do extensive work and don't have a hanger but it is not something you should expect to do every time you want to go flying. And remember that an anplane isn't built to drag around.

[mrpilotron]

You have to drain the fuel tanks empty each time.

Thank you for that tip. It's a point in favor of the RV-12. The counter-point being that removing wings is a 2 person job while folding can be done solo. I was planning on using a 30 gallon wheeled fuel caddy since they don't sell mogas at the airport. Draining the tanks may not be such a big deal since I would have the fuel caddy in my trailer already.

You're probably right about not folding the wings a lot. The current wait list for hangars is estimated at 3-5 years and I'm already on the list so it's possible that this whole issue goes away shortly after the airplane is finished. Ah.... now I'm second guessing how important that removable/foldable requirement really is... The Kitfox wait looks to be around 17 months. The RV-12 is only 2 months. I could be more than half done on an RV-12 by the time the Kitfox shows up. This isn't getting any easier.

[Eric Page]

This isn't getting any easier.

Just wait until you're looking at a pile of parts and think, "What have I gotten myself into?!"

[ken nougaret]

You won't be folding the wings on a Kitfox as often as you think. While it is an advertised feature it shouldn't be considered as the norm. You have to drain the fuel tanks empty each time. It is good if you need to do extensive work and don't have a hanger but it is not something you should expect to do every time you want to go flying. And remember that an anplane isn't built to drag around.

I trailer 4 miles to the airport every time I fly. Been doing it 4 yrs and 330 hours. Not bad at all.
And wings only need to be half empty.

[Utah-Jay]

The Rans S-21 will fly slow and get your wife there pretty fast if you want. Reports are coming out of a Titan powered S-21 truing out at 160 mph and stalling at 37-38

http://www.ransclan.com/forums/showt...-First-flight!

[109JB]

The S-21 doesn't have foldable wings does it? If not they are not what I would call easily removeable, either of which are part of the OP's requirements.