About to Order -- Questions

[flipfloplife]

All,

I've done a lot of lurking here. Thank you in advance for all I have learned already.

I have some questions before I order that may seem like random questions, apologies, they are the ones highlighted in my notebook that my own research hasn't satisfied.

Basic plan is a KF 7SS, Rotax power with enough guts for "out west" DA's (thinking ULS w/ big cylinders, on the fence about injection). I'm pretty on the fence about in IFA prop as well, not sure I'd get the performance boost to make it worth that kind of scratch. Initial and routine flying would be south florida and the bahamas -- then I'd like to trailer it and potentially amphib floats. Cabane Gear MShocks, Oratex, extended baggage, QB wing. I have never built a plane before, I don't have a ton of space.

Silly Question #1: Max fuselage width as it comes from the factory considering what door you can get it in? (yes, there may be a concrete saw at the end of my build log, but I have to get it started first, permit me to save the fun surprise part for later).

Silly Question #2: I read the specs, but unclear what length is w/o FWF on?

Silly Question #3: Max chord with and/or without flaperons attached (does it vary down the wing? it looks like its constant).

Silly Question #4: There seems to be a step somewhat early on in most builds where you put on a wing at a time "swung out" -- I have a bit of a narrow build space in mind -- what do you guys who have done tight spaces do with this one? Is this step something where you can roll it out in the driveway and do it, roll it back 5 hours later? Or is this a situation where I am not understanding the full pain of not being able to extend one wing at a time right there IN the build space?

Silly Question #5: I have read what guys have said about trailering -- it seems that universally draining the fuel is both desired and not that easy -- could I build in an easy drain to make this ... easy? Other thoughts on trailering out the gate, I think there is a grab handle on the tail, but should/could there be a small D-ring in the back/front for pulling in and out? (kind of like we do on boats)

Silly Question #6: Any reason to try and build to LSA instead of E-AB? I have read the rules and variety of postings on different forums, it seems it just gets me more confused. I have to keep a solid FAA medical for quite a while still, if I can't then I likely will have a plane for sale.... I care about re-sale but not to sacrifice either performance (IFA prop) or gross weight (no one has ever called me "svelte").

Not Silly Question #7: Fire away -- given described mission and proposed build, relatively tiny build space -- is there stuff you guys would have done out the gate differently? Stuff that I have laid out that seems dumb? (I am not bright). What would you guys be thinking about NOW if you were me?

Cheers,
FFL

[Dave S]

Scott,

Not all of us have a giant million dollar space to work with - probably few do and we work with what he have. The smallest construction space I am aware of locally is where a person built a Model IV in a small single car un-attached garage - got 'er done and the plane looks and flies very well. The big deal is to have the build close to, and better yet, at home so you can get to it. If the project is a drive to get to you won't work on it as much or as frequently.

We built in the attached garage (photos attached) and basement. Carefully measured the basement stairway to assure the wings would make it out OK and I could avoid the classical home builders conundrum. Be aware that with the wings folded they extend past the tail a bit.

Swinging the wings is not much of a problem. Many times in and out of the garage to work the wings at various steps. The door was a rather small 9X7 so it was necessary to fabricate a tail dolly to keep the prop low enough to get in once that was installed.

[Cherrybark]

Welcome Scott. As Dave said, have your build close to home if at all possible. Just stepped out to the garage to measure, in rough inches:

1. Max Fuselage Width is 43" - right behind the seat.

2. Fuselage Length w/o FWF is 180"

3. Wings are 163" long but you really want them mounted on a rotisserie which takes mine to 178"

4. Wing chord is a constant 42" w/o flapperons. Don't have them mounted so can't answer the second question.

Surely someone will double check my numbers?

I had the luxury of parking my wife's car outside and mounting both wings with bare inches to spare in a three car garage. This was at the stage where the spars are being drilled to rig the wings. It was nice to have plenty of time to work through the unfamiliar process of mounting of the wings, double checking the measurements, sleeping on it, and re-checking the next day before drilling. There is also a bit of fiddling to rig the jury struts. I ended up mounting the wings a second time to get the correct placement of the door compression strut and to trim the lift strut farings. That said, with some experienced help, you could probably rig the wings and put them away in a single day.

[efwd]

Thanks, I was not aware the factory limits their builds to 1320#.

[ken nougaret]

In response to the question about fuel draining before folding: I trailer to the airport every flight. I have had as much as 3/4 thanks and don't believe I have spilled any trailering. I have my wings level on the trailer.

[flipfloplife]

Dave S -- ok, that's quite inspiring. You didn't have level ground, you had snow, and that is a tight shop space - but man your plane looks great! Sounds like you're saying that out and in was a fairly regular thing for you. From what I've read about trailering that 9x7' door was pretty tight w/ the wings on. I am going to have to work on that part. creatively.

Carl -- I'm on the road for work but those numbers are really really helpful! As soon as I get home I'm going to use them to do some figuring... I'm going to have to dig out your build thread if you have one about the Oratex (it appeals to me).

Ken -- Well that's good news for me! Do you trailer long distances and highway speeds in that configuration as well? I'm going to seek out something enclosed and a tails tand makes a lot of sense but I'm not sure how high the vertical stab can go w/o starting to push up the roof on an enclosed trailer ---- seems like a lot of guys are keeping the tail pretty low in the enclosed trailers?

Thanks for the thoughts so far -- they are going in my book and getting me closer to an executable plan.

[jiott]

A few answers:
Yes you want the factory strut fairings; most of us would agree they add about 10 mph-that's a lot. The horizontal stab strut fairings are nice but not nearly as effective.
Many of us had the kit delivered, but you must use a service who knows what they are doing aircraftwise; I highly recommend Partain.
The standard kit comes with hard points for floats, and yes there is a tiedown loop at the top of the lift struts.

[ken nougaret]

FFL,
You asked about a D-ring for pulling. I made this piece so as not to pull on the tail spring.

[GuppyWN]

If you build it the airplane WILL be EAB. Only the factory can produce a LSA. You’re thinking about the 1320 gross weight. You can certify it 1320 and utilize the LSA Pilots licensing rules.

[aviator79]

I built in a 1-car garage. It wasn't really too difficult IF you plan for it, and you have extra space somewhere to store things you aren't working on. I had a lot of parts, including a wing, hung from the walls and ceiling in a spare room inside my house throughout the build. If you go find my build log, you might find it helpful. There is a step when you install the #1 ribs where the wing must be on and extended overnight while the epoxy cures. In Florida, you can probably just do this outside. Up here in the mountains, there are only a couple months a year where it wouldn't get too cold at night for the epoxy to cure. I was able to work with the factory to have those ribs installed before when the rigged my wings in Idaho. It pays to read the manual very carefully to identify steps that might be difficult in a small space ahead of time so you can plan. It also pays to ask questions when you're placing your order.

Just to clear up LSA/E-AB Semantics: ANY airplane that meets the definition of an LSA under 14 CFR 1.1 is an LSA. If you build your airplane to meet the LSA definition, it will be an E-AB that is also an LSA and can be flown by a sport pilot.

A factory-built airplane will have an S-LSA airworthiness certificate. If you build your airplane, it will have an E-AB airworthiness certificate. But the type of airworthiness certificate is not what determines if it's an LSA, only the definition in 1.1 matters for that.