Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build

[JoeRuscito]

Yea thats why I want to get this all done first!

[JoeRuscito]

Still working on getting my tanks to sit flush and installing my jury struts. Im waiting on a good day to get it outside and unfold the wings. In the meantime Ive been thinking about paint and epoxy primer for the spars and other metal parts. I don't think my kit came with any primer, so how much do I need to do the spars, stringers, and assorted uncovered metal?

Also in the realm of painting/spraying I know NOTHING! Any and all advice is welcomed. Id like to start getting my setup ready so I can do things like paint the cockpit black before I cover and paint any unprotected metal as I go.

Thanks as always!

[aviator79]

If I recall correctly, I ordered a quart of primer which wasn't enough. Then I ordered an additional gallon, and have probably only used about a quarter or a third of it. I would think a gallon should get you through the project pretty easily.

There are strong opinions about painting equipment. I did all of mine with a Harbor Frieght "professional" $60 HVLP spray gun. I know others have used their $15 spray gun with surprisingly good results. This is actually the gun that they used when I took Gary Hillman's EAA covering workshop. I also had a Harbor Frieght compressor that went Tango Uniform half way through spraying a color coat. So I spent a little more money on a 15 gallon 200 psi 5.4 CFM oil-free compressor, and it's worked well for the rest of the project. I think some will tell you this is totally inadequate, but for this project, I can tell you it worked for me. My paint has some flaws, but they definitely have nothing to do with my equipment. If you can take a covering class, you'll at least get to try your hand at spraying and see good/bad examples.

Also - take PPE seriously. All these chemicals, and especially catalyzed polyurethane paints can do some real damage to you. I used a quality, full face cartridge respirator with P100 particulate/organic vapor combo cartridges. You will read in the Poly Fiber manual, and hear from internet experts that an Air Purifying Respirator (APR) is totally insufficient and that you must use a supplied-air respirator. If you look into it, this isn't actually true. I won't go into a lengthy discussion of why I chose an APR instead of supplied air, but this might be worth a read. I work in a very safety conscious, hyper-regulated environment and I take my own health and safety very seriously. There's nothing wrong with using supplied air, but it's also not necessary if you use an APR correctly and change your cartridges very conservatively.

[Ronin]

If I recall correctly, I ordered a quart of primer which wasn't enough...

Having painted cars for 15 years I'd say that a full-face SA system is mandatory. Charcoal filters do nothing for poly-isocyanate fumes. You are also taking it in thru your skin and the worst entry point is your eyes. If you do use a charcoal respirator but leave it out, it continues to "purify" the air so make sure to keep it in an airtight container. Washing your hands or arms off with any kind of thinners or reducers is also very bad.

You might get away with it for a long time but once your isocyanate "cup is full" your done, you won't be able to come near any of these products again. I've seen it in person and it's not pretty. One guy I worked with that developed a sensitivity to isocyanates had to quit the business. Had been a bodyman/painter for 25+ years. We met him for lunch one day several months after, and he had an asthmatic type attack in the restaurant just from the smell on my clothes, and I always wore a full paint suit!

[aviator79]

I agree that you need PPE beyond respiratory protection. Full coveralls with hood, and gloves. Don't come into contact with the paint, especially when it's a mist.

However, it's not accurate that charcoal filters are ineffective against polyisocyanates. Read the article I linked to above. OSHA and NIOSH both consider Air Purifying Respirators effective against Polyisocyantes if a cartridge change schedule is used. The article even points out that charcoal cartridges actually remain effective against isocyanates for a relatively long time. OSHA's previous "supplied air only" policy was not based on the effectiveness of filters, but on the supposedly poor warning properties, i.e. by the time you smell them, you're above the exposure limit.

Again, if supplied air makes you feel comfortable, go for it. Just know that there is a lot of incorrect or outdated information about APRs and isocyanates. Choosing an APR is not taking a gamble with your life and health, if you use it correctly. Any respirator must fit correctly, be stored correctly, and be used correctly. You must perform at least a negative pressure check every time you put it on.

[Ronin]

The main problem being that most people don't fit the mask (simply don't know how to) properly, don't take proper care of it and don't adhere to a proper filter changing schedule. Hanging the respirator on a nail in the shop until the next time you paint is not going to cut it. If you bought the mask three months ago (even less actually) and it's been out in the air (even just sitting) the charcoal cartridges are done. If you have any facial hair you have leaks unless using a full-face FA mask. I just don't think it's worth it. Maybe OSHA did relax the regs and maybe they got a couple million dollar donation from 3M?

After Bone's the coworker got sick the owner of the shop brought in a chemical poisoning Dr. to go over our safety processes. The crap I learned & saw over those two days scared the shizit out of me, and I've worn a FA respirator since day one! Hell I even wore a charcoal respirator when mixing paint and the mixing room had an exhaust fan.

I can say this nobody made fun of my "full suit, head sock, gloves and FA system" any more after that.

And your "Any respirator must fit correctly, be stored correctly, and be used correctly.

You must perform at least a negative pressure check every time you put it on." is spot on.

I also agree that folks should just use something and make sure it's working correctly, you only get one set of lungs.

[JoeRuscito]

hey guys thanks for the thoughtful responses the week got away from me (thankfully do to building!). I must say Im a bit daunted by aerothane and the like even though I will likely end up going that route (with an air system) if I think it's within my spraying ability. I'm signed up for the Polyfiber course in two weeks near ATL which I hope will educate me more on the painting process as well.


I had my EAA tech counselor Jim Wilson out this weekend and we talked alot about painting and we also got a chance to look order my build (he is the first qualified set of eyes to see it in person). I feel super lucky to have such a experienced and great person to advise me and look over my build. Jim approved of all my work so far! Really makes me feel much better, it's easy for me to continuously second guess my work with no previous experience or anything to compare it to in person.

I was holding for good weather to finish up the jury struts and get the tanks installed and as of last night both are complete. It took about 10 sloshes for each tank till I was happy with the lack of debris. I found that I would slosh and get a clear strainer, then would do one more for good measure and find big pieces of fiberglass, undoubtedly do to the last slosh maneuver, there are tons of places for things to get hung up in these tanks and Im positive no matter how many times one sloshes there is probably something still hung up in there in one of the corners. I also did some work on the wing tip mounting strips, got my balsa ends mostly contoured (still need to be covered in hysol), varnished the butt ribs, rudder, and inside ribs one and 3 prior to tank install. I also got around to working on my paint scheme. Open to feedback, this is just my first go, but I do like it! The wings would be one or the other pattern not both, just trying out ideas on one template. I'm certainly not a designer but I wanted something simple to paint, didn't need too many colors, had some white incorporated to blend with current white powder coated items, some black to blend with soon to be black cockpit tubes and interior, third color open to changes. I really would love your thoughts/ideas.
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[PapuaPilot]

If you want to lift the ailerons you need to keep the chord vertical. Don't lift them with them in the horizontal position unless you are grabbing it with both hands spread so it splits the load in thirds

[FoxTrotter]

I agree that you need PPE beyond respiratory protection. Full coveralls with hood, and gloves. Don't come into contact with the paint, especially when it's a mist.

However, it's not accurate that charcoal filters are ineffective against polyisocyanates. Read the article I linked to above. OSHA and NIOSH both consider Air Purifying Respirators effective against Polyisocyantes if a cartridge change schedule is used. The article even points out that charcoal cartridges actually remain effective against isocyanates for a relatively long time. OSHA's previous "supplied air only" policy was not based on the effectiveness of filters, but on the supposedly poor warning properties, i.e. by the time you smell them, you're above the exposure limit.

Again, if supplied air makes you feel comfortable, go for it. Just know that there is a lot of incorrect or outdated information about APRs and isocyanates. Choosing an APR is not taking a gamble with your life and health, if you use it correctly. Any respirator must fit correctly, be stored correctly, and be used correctly. You must perform at least a negative pressure check every time you put it on.

But there's no dispute that if you're using Poly-Tone (on fabric) and polyfiber enamel (on primed metal), then one only needs a charcoal-canister respirator, right?

And a related question -- does anyone who used Poly-Tone on the fabric just use the Poly-Tone on the metal also? With what result?

Thanks

Michael

[JoeRuscito]

But there's no dispute that if you're using Poly-Tone (on fabric) and polyfiber enamel (on primed metal), then one only needs a charcoal-canister respirator, right?

And a related question -- does anyone who used Poly-Tone on the fabric just use the Poly-Tone on the metal also? With what result?

Thanks

Michael

From what Ive been told you are correct polytone/primer>regular respirator. I can't speak to polytone on metal but Ive read it doesn't perform as well as aerothane/ranthane.