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Thread: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

  1. #11
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    My model 4 is my ninth plane, and all of the other 8 had the same thing in common, I didn't pay much for them. And my model 4 is no exception, paid $5,000 for a new un-started kit, with rotax firewall forward (no engine) from a widow I tracked down and held a pile of $100 bills in front of her, with a trailer attached to my truck. She took it. I sold the firewall forward kit for $2700. Yes, you do the the math on that one, total cost $2,300, and it came with the factor jigged wings. Older planes, forgotten planes, superseded models can all be had for cheap, if you do some digging, and more digging. Place a wanted ad, join a club and get the word out, you need a good cheap plane project. The less money in your plane, the more likely you are to keep it in the air, having not gone broke buying factory new. The newer plane kits?....probably going to pay way way more than older. But are they way WAY better? Probably not.
    Hope this helps
    Roger

  2. #12
    GMKman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
    wow! I think I'm offended. I have a 4. I love it. It feels very personal to me. meaning it fits me. I have one of those big engines. yup the 912uls the same one that is standard for the model 7. Now I play big time with my plane, I have big tires. I feel the advantage of the 5 thru 7 is it's for the big person. yup, I'm a small guy 5'6 or there abouts and 175. so I fit perfect in the 4. It's like the 2000 Silverado, my truck, fits me real nice. I get in the newer chevy's and they seem so big. they are made for the BIG guy. sure I can drive them, but I love the feel of mine. same with the kitfox's the higher number fox's are bigger. more robust. have a higher payload. I guess you can go for whatever you want, but if you fit in a 4, that's a plane to have. it can give you some fun factor. just my 2 cents worth.
    I think the big engines Phil is referring to are the Lycoming, Continental, and 914 turbo engines that are an option in the 5,6,7 not trying to offend anyone.
    I have the Continental and I can cruise at the 140 mph vne of the higher Kitfoxes (not that I would). I think the model 4 has a vne of only 125mph. I could be wrong on that.
    Brad Smith
    KF Vixen IO-240
    Flying when I have gas money

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    The Model 4 Speedster has a VNE of 140 according to my build manual.

  4. #14
    GMKman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    Nice!! I like that.
    Brad Smith
    KF Vixen IO-240
    Flying when I have gas money

  5. #15
    Senior Member PapuaPilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    Quote Originally Posted by GMKman View Post
    I think the big engines Phil is referring to are the Lycoming, Continental, and 914 turbo engines that are an option in the 5,6,7 not trying to offend anyone.
    That's exactly what I meant. When I was looking to buy a KF the 4-1200 was on the table for consideration.

    I think the model 5 was introduced about the time Home Improvement was airing and everybody wanted MORE POWER . . .
    Phil Nelson
    A&P-IA, Maintenance Instructor
    KF 5 Outback, Cont. IO-240
    Flying since 2016

  6. #16
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    and more power isn't wanted now. holy crum, that's all people are talking about now. I want ... to go to the moon. lol
    steve
    slyfox
    model IV 1200-flying
    912uls
    IVO medium in-flight
    RV7A-flying
    IO-360
    constant speed prop

  7. #17
    Hockeystud87's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    I'm 6'2" 185. The model 4 -1200 speedster I fly is a great fit for me. The controls can be a little tight on the extremes but the 4 is so dang responsive I don't think I've used more than about 3" in any direction when flying other than full back on landing.

    It's stinking cheap I burn under $20 an hour in gas. I do all my own work and just pay parts. I get a consistent 1000 FPM climb and cruise about 85 knots. ( I'm under pitched right now). I get up in under 200'. All this on a 912ul 80 HP. I've thought about going with a zipper kit to make it a 100 HP but IDK if I need it.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the model 4 really isn't a 2 person camping plane. (At least that's my opinion). By the time you get 2 people in there plus gas there isn't much room/weight for camping gear. Also there just ain't places to put it unless you're gonna throw it on someones lap. As a single person excursion plane almost unbeatable I think.

    I'd personally get a 4 if you're going mostly solo and a 5-7 if you're going for a true 2 placer.

  8. #18
    Senior Member HighWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    My thinking exactly, but better said.
    Lowell Fitt
    Goodyear, AZ


    My You Tube Channel

  9. #19
    Senior Member PapuaPilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    Yes, well said.

    I have been glad to have the ability to carry 100+ lbs. in the baggage area. Even with the heavy engine I still have a UL of 660 pounds and 500+ lbs. with full tanks.
    Phil Nelson
    A&P-IA, Maintenance Instructor
    KF 5 Outback, Cont. IO-240
    Flying since 2016

  10. #20
    Senior Member av8rps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Model 4 1200 vs Model 5

    I remember years ago asking a Rotax rep about the results they obtained after flying their testbed Model IV Kitfox Speedster that they had put a 914 on. He said the Speedster with the new engine would hit 140 in a mild climb. Unfortunately they felt the Speedster was so overpowered that they weren't going to promote that engine in that airframe. Funny, I didn't know you could overpower a plane until talking with him

    Questionable info? Hard to believe?

    To prove it to myself, I just did quick math on a 650 lb EW Model 4 with a 115 hp 914 to determine a empty weight power loading. That quick math says there is only 5.65 lbs of airplane to lift per engine horsepower. That is a very good number. How do I know?

    Well, lets compare the Speedster against Trent's superb performing 915is powered Kitfox 7 STI:

    From my memory (which is not always great, so go easy on me...) Trent's STI weighs 930 lbs empty and has 146 horsepower. Now we know that thing really cranks , and that makes sense as the power loading (empty again) is only 6.37 lbs per hp. That too is an awesome number as typical GA aircraft run 10 pounds plus.

    But the Speedster at only 5.65 pounds per hp is more than 10% better than Trent's plane. So the Model 4 should perform on par with Trent's hotrod, or better.

    I know, I know... this is a crude comparison. But it is logical to me

    So is there anyone out there in Kitfox Land that has a 914 powered Model 4 that could back up my theory?

    Just in case I'm now slipping into my custom made flame proof jump suit now...

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