Stall spins

[rosslr]

Yeah Jim, I did the same trials up high. I didn't push it right to the limits but certainly exaggerated a tight turn base-final and nothing. I have since installed an angle of attack indicated that I love. It is interesting to watch how it goes from green to yellow when simulating a tight base-final turn and red right on a stall 3 pt landing. It also indicates how turbulence can put the aircraft close to stall (red lights) very quickly on a final approach without sufficient buffer to compensate. Of course, we all know this in theory but I now use the AOA indicator over airspeed as my primary guide in tight manoeuvres and turbulent approaches.

I think it has been a very good investment that gives accurate and real time indications of how close to a stall you are and I also find it to be an excellent training aide.

cheers

r

[David47]

If you want to do an accelerated stall, try a high banked and steep climbing turn and pull the stick back all the way quite quickly - but just be aware there is a dynamic effect that may not stall the wing initially, but just hold it in because it ultimately will. Then if you want some real excitement, try it again put full rudder on and skid it. Be prepared to end up on your back, but you'd better know how to get out of that one ...

Did all this recently in some upset and recovery training in a Super Decathlon. Worth every $.

[jiott]

David, did you do this in a Kitfox or was it a Decathlon? Not saying it won't work in a Kitfox, but I think the Kitfox may behave differently in some maneuvers due to flaperons, etc.

[brjohnso]

Does anyone know how Nick adjusted the wings of his plane for washout? They were Trent’s old wings from his KF 5, and he put them on a different kf7 fuse. Isn’t there a matching that has to be done between the wings and the fuselage when the plane is built? Could a warp or twist in the wing cause one wing to stall before the other, making the plane more susceptible to a spin?

[Esser]

You can remove the old spar attach plates and re adjust the positioning but the model 5 and the model 7 in theory should be exactly the same attach point. All that e adjusts is wing sweep though. The strut attach points can be adjusted to change flying tendencies. I’m sure Nikk has his plane rigged properly or else it wouldn’t have flown nicely.

[aviator79]

I've only done a handful of stalls, power on, power, off, and in turns in a couple different kitfoxes, and I was surprised how docile they were. So to the original poster's question, I don't think there is anything inherent to the design that leads to these kinds of accidents. As someone else pointed out, LOC accidents are a leading cause of fatal accidents across all of general aviation.

Now I'm going to speculate a little bit. There may be a disproportionate number of Kitfox fatalities in this scenario for two reasons:
1) A Kitfox is comfortable flying slow, and maintains roll authority well into the stall, so Kitfox pilot may feel a little too comfortable maneuvering the plane with a thin stall margin.

2) Kitfox pilots are more likely to be flying low and slow, making non-standard approaches to difficult airstrips with tighter than normal turns. In these cases, there is insufficient altitude margin to recover from an unintended stall. I'll tell you as a CFI, that the reason you should practice stalls and recoveries is primarily so you learn your airplane's incipient stall characteristics. There is a BIG difference between recovering from a stall that you induced intentionally, and recovering from one that you did not intend. Stall practice is not to teach you to recover in this situation, it's to explore this portion of the flight envelope so that you correct before the stall happens.

I realize this conversation is happening while Nikk is recovering. My comments should be taken generally, and not directly connected with his accident.

[David47]

David, did you do this in a Kitfox or was it a Decathlon? Not saying it won't work in a Kitfox, but I think the Kitfox may behave differently in some maneuvers due to flaperons, etc.

In a Decathlon Jim. And yes, a Kitfox may react differently. On that point, it would be good to get some input from John McBean or Paul Leadabrand on how, in our case, a 7SS would behave in those manoeuvres before attempting them. The Decathlon is obviously ok, not so sure about the 7SS or any other model for that matter.

[jmodguy]

I belong to a flying club and this link was recently emailed to the membership.
Good info

[efwd]

Thanks Jeff. Having trained so long ago, that video was great.

[Mesteve]

I belong to a flying club and this link was recently emailed to the membership.
Good info

Valid input, even (more so) for those of us more recently out of training....