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View Poll Results: KITFOX should make a 4 seater

Voters
81. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    20 24.69%
  • No

    49 60.49%
  • Kinda interested....keep me updated!

    12 14.81%
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Thread: 4 Seater KITFOX

  1. #11
    Senior Member Wheels's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    In my experience, 90 percent of all pilots fly alone 90 percent of the time. Even twin engine planes are out there with solo pilots all the time.
    The two place Kitfox has a power to weight ratio that beats all. Fuel economy, ease of construction, ease of maintenance, overall performance is not going to be found in a four place anything. Sorry, I would not even look twice. The boys and girls at the factory have a winner in the two place go anyplace, airplane.

  2. #12
    N981MS's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    Kitfox is name with an excellent reputation in the experimental world.

    If John put together a 4 seater with the same quality and similar flying qualities (not a small or cheap task) it would certainly sell. It would be bigger, need different wing, different engine options, etc, etc. It would be an entirely new airplane but it would sell based on reputation alone. Sell enough???

    Van resisted the idea of side by side seating, constant speed props, and 4 seaters. He gave in, came up with quality products and we can see the result. He diverted from his personal beliefs to offer what the market wanted.

    Bottom line is; what can Kitfox make money with? Are there enough buyers out there to share the 4 place bush market with Bearhawk? Given the overall history of Kitfox design and its current trajectory as best I can see it, I doubt we will see a 4 place from them. That is better for me at present because building one at this point is not an option but the next cool add ons for my 6 might be. I would like Carbon cowl please. Probably about as likely as a 4 place given that I have 6 with a Continental.

    As for the poll I voted no. The majority seems to be going that way as well. Most folks here already have decided that 2 places are enough for them. Otherwise they would have built something else. The votes that matter most, however, are out there, somewhere, dreaming.
    Last edited by N981MS; 10-24-2018 at 05:21 AM.
    Maxwell Duke

    Kitfox S6 IO-240 Built it (Flying since 2003)
    Maule M7-235C Sold it (liked it though)
    RV-10 IO-540 Bought it
    Zenith CH-750 Built with 7 friends (DAR Vic Syracuse)

  3. #13
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    The Vans analogy is pertinent. Their four-place appears to have sold well. However, the market for a four-place go-fast "family sedan" is probably many times larger than the market for a four-place backcountry airplane. The performance tradeoffs are also easier in the RV market. Most people don't care if their RV-10 burns up a few hundred extra feet of runway to accommodate the two empty seats in back. Couple that to the fact that Kitfox can't make planes fast enough to meet the current demand, and that it's a company that is very cautious about growing too large too fast, and I just don't think it's likely for them to spend the R&D money on a completely new airplane unless it's an S8.

    If they did, I think they would eat Bearhawk's lunch. They have a much stronger brand, and working from a clean sheet with well-defined competition, they could produce a better airplane and a better kit. In terms of ROI, I think their money would be better spent updating their production facility with improved tooling and automation to allow them to respond to market demand with little impact to their labor pool. It would also allow them to push more SLSAs out the door, and the benefits would also accrue to kit builders in an even easier build and lower build time. Bringing fiberglass/composites in house is a good example of investing in better S7 production. I can say that the difference in quality between my wingtips (before Brandon stood up the fiberglass shop) and my Cowls (after they brought it in house) is night-and-day.

    Of course, I have no special knowledge of their day-to-day production so I could be completely off-base.
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

  4. #14
    jonstark's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Task View Post
    Not sure if this is blasphemy but airplanes arent cheap and a 4 seater kitfox would fit the bill better. Wasnt sure if there was anything in the works or its just a “look elsewhere” situation...love the kitfox and as we all know airplanes are nothing but compromises but it would be cool to know if kitfox was thinking about one and if there was any interest in it.

    Thoughts?
    I say again...
    A guy needs a fleet of airplanes and an understanding wife.
    Kitfox IV 1050, C180. Now I have two backcountry planes! WooHoo!

  5. #15
    Senior Member rv9ralph's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    So, here's one to consider. Over on Vans Air Force forums, on the front page is a survey on whether Van's should build a back country super cub type version RV.

    As stated before, the Return On Investment for Kitfox to design a 4 place, IMHO, would not be there.

    The Kitfox does what it does very well, because it is what it is.

    To add 2 seats is not just enlarge the cabin, then you have to reinforce the fuselage, then you need more wing to carry the increased weight, then you have to add more HP to carry the increased... it just keeps snowballing without the results you want.

    Ralph

  6. #16
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    Unless things have changed recently, I don't believe Kitfox has any engineers on staff. So a brand new 4 seat design would mean farming out the design work or adding engineers to the staff. Van's has always had engineers on staff to create their many different models. Kitfox is mainly a manufacturing company, and a good one at that, so I don't see drastic new models coming out, just small incremental improvements.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  7. #17

    Join Date
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    Smile Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    I love our Kitfox SuperSport7 but REALLY want to fly a 4-seater Kitfox! We need more room for our dogs... among other things! :-))

  8. #18
    BobRS's Avatar
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    Feb 2012
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    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    Just to remind everyone taking this survey, the McBeans did develop the S7 STi which undoubted took some aeronautical engineering as well as flight testing. John and Debra would need to consider all the elements of a business plan to develop a 4-seater KF, but with the stability and backlog of orders for a superior airplane in the present design....that's the kind of business I would wish for, and something to take to the bank.

    BobRS
    SS7, N104Y, Rotax 914
    Albuquerque, NM

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
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    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    2

    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    Well, I completely understand the risk and economics. But, while the Bearhawk is a great aircraft the kit is not nearly the completeness and buildability of a kitfox, and the certified options are costly, or in the case of C180 and 185s aging quickly. Maules are great, but still lack the advantages of EAB. I love the idea of something like a Maule MX7-180 offered as an EAB kit which you could equip with a range of power options from 160-220hp - imagine an MX7 you could build yourself with a 215hp IO390, G3X suite, and 4 seats! I have to believe there would be a market for that...

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Nampa, ID
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    100

    Default Re: 4 Seater KITFOX

    Quote Originally Posted by N981MS View Post
    Kitfox is name with an excellent reputation in the experimental world.

    If John put together a 4 seater with the same quality and similar flying qualities (not a small or cheap task) it would certainly sell. It would be bigger, need different wing, different engine options, etc, etc. It would be an entirely new airplane but it would sell based on reputation alone. Sell enough???

    Van resisted the idea of side by side seating, constant speed props, and 4 seaters. He gave in, came up with quality products and we can see the result. He diverted from his personal beliefs to offer what the market wanted.

    Bottom line is; what can Kitfox make money with? Are there enough buyers out there to share the 4 place bush market with Bearhawk? Given the overall history of Kitfox design and its current trajectory as best I can see it, I doubt we will see a 4 place from them. That is better for me at present because building one at this point is not an option but the next cool add ons for my 6 might be. I would like Carbon cowl please. Probably about as likely as a 4 place given that I have 6 with a Continental.

    As for the poll I voted no. The majority seems to be going that way as well. Most folks here already have decided that 2 places are enough for them. Otherwise they would have built something else. The votes that matter most, however, are out there, somewhere, dreaming.


    We are offering the carbon cowl for the Continental. There a wait for if, but you can get on the list.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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