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Thread: Viking 130

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Miami Beach
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    5

    Default Re: Viking 130

    Aero Newbie here, but not a newbie with Honda Engines...by far.

    Let's preface this, with I havent met Jan, ever...but I'm planning a Kitfox 7 with 'A' Honda Engine.

    Being completely Objective...the only engine I'd ever trust my Life too...would be a stock Naturally-Aspirated Honda Engine. You'd really have a hard-time burning it up, tbh...I have no idea why he runs Catalytic Converters? I'm assuming it's because he doesn't have complete ECU control\knowledge.

    In my perfect world, Jan would just sell me his FWF Mounts and PSRU to me.

    Then I would develop the engine combo on my own, custom wiring and tune the Motec M170 ona Loading Engine Dyno for MBT...the Honda L15 engines are basically just scaled down version of the Honda K series...which is basically one of the best and highest hp\most efficient 4 Cylinder Engines ever made.

    To put things in perspective, an Air-Cooled Airplane Engine's bsfc #s, etc make a Rotary look good. A Water-Cooled, DI Honda is on the completely opposite end of the spectrum on EVERY level. Variable Valve Lift, and you can manipulate cam phasing to bump the midrange torque. Honda's are underrated from the factory, BY FAR.

    I did one of the first K20 Type R Swaps into a EK Civic back in the early 2000s.

    Running on the Stock ECU was like ~205whp\150 ona DynoJet with a inconsistent torque curve.

    Switching to Hondata and a decent 4-1 Header net'd ~215whp\155, picking up everywhere.

    While building a 2.5L Race Motor...we put the short stack Jenvey ITBs and Motec M400 on the stock K20...235whp\160tq, stock longblock.

    Point Being...without Turbos ever being involved, just a dialed in stock L15 NA, 'could' make more than pretty much anything out there without trying hard.

    If you change the oil and don't overheat it, TTBO could be predicted with a compression and leakdown tester. It's literally never gonna catastrophically toss a Rod or something...

    I wouldn't even build the bottom end unless I put a Turbo on, which is much easier...obviously. The L Series Engines all share the same Shortblock...so the 'build' is super-cookie cutter.

    There's really only a couple ways to kill one of these engines...

    1 - Run Engine without Oil
    2 - Run Engine without Coolant
    3 - Mechanical Over-Rev (Impossible in Airplane)
    4 - Horrific EFI Calibration (Really hard to do, NA)

    Turbocharged, you could easily melt one on takeoff with a bad Calibration.

    But, NA? I literally can't see a scenario that you can possibly burn it up unless #1 or #2...

    Heat Management is key in all scenarios involving Honda Engines...

    If you can keep Coolant and Oil Temps, under 185F...that engine will run indefinitely...period.

    Regardless of his past business practices, Jan is onto a hot-ticket.

    Personally, the Engine side of things makes me more stoked...because I know what's possible, development-wise...and we also benefit from the R&D already done. Example being the Honda K-Series, which has been developed up to 500hp NA and 1500hp+ Turbo.

    I'm personally going to give Jan a fair shake when the time comes, and hopefully my further development of the package helps us all.

    I felt compelled to post, although unplanned.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Airdrie, North of Calgary
    Posts
    346

    Default Re: Viking 130

    Quote Originally Posted by Suprdave View Post
    Aero Newbie here, but not a newbie with Honda Engines...by far.

    In my perfect world, Jan would just sell me his FWF Mounts and PSRU to me.
    Maybe you could develop your own redrive and mount and be his competition
    Norm
    Airdrie Ab, Can
    North of Calgary
    Flying SuperFox Model IV

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Miami Beach
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Viking 130

    That wouldn't really be productive at this point for anyone.

    I'd probably be more than happy with the stock '130' Engine with a Straight Pipe off the Head and an ECU that had full control of the Direct Injection that also Integrated with the Can-Bus. Edge Performance uses an Autronic to control their Modded 912s. The only aftermarket ECU that would control the DI AND give benefits of Can-Bus and solid state wiring would be the Motec M170.

    I'm just a fanboy, but the M1 series is literally the most reliable, customizable Engine Management out there, by far. You could hypothetically pair it with a PDM Solid state Wiring and have a fully programmable wiring harness that also talks to the can-bus. The M1 Build lets you create a custom firmware per application... You could program your landing lights to come on automatically below a certain altitude...any issues would pop up on-screen so you know what they are. The possibilities are endless honestly...

    So I actually commend Jan for picking the engines he has to put all the R&D $ and work into. I'd never want to compete with him, if anything I'd like to add my knowledge to the Pot-Luck...

    Coincidentally, I have a very solid understanding of a few things that ONLY apply in a new situation, created by Jan. Swapping Honda Engines into things they weren't supposed to go into originally, Frankensteining all the Legos together into the best combo Naturally-Aspirated, then realizing Turbos are the way forward.

    Hondas are basically Lego Engines...the reason they can make reliable cars for cheap is that they put the same handful of engines in like every model.

    The 'Viking 130' and the 'Viking 180' both have the exactly same shortblock.

    Which means, you can swap all the heads from that Series Engine (L) on that block. You can easily get custom parts made because Manufacturers have an interest in adding those SKUs to their catalog. Or already have them on the shelf.

    Let's use the Honda K-Series as an Example...the big brother basically...

    The Heads Flow 250-290cfm on Superflow STOCK! There's meat on the bone to get over 400+cfm in Race Apps. So almost 300cfm Flow, AND 2 Camshaft Lifts...which completely change the VE, AND VTC so you can manipulate the Torque Curve, advancing at lower RPM to build torque and then retarding at higher RPM shifting the curve right.

    Combine that with the Motec M1 and you literally take the complication out.

    Takeoff - Climb - Cruise, all controlling different fuel maps\lambda\boost targets and also adjusting the Propeller Pitch.

    I'm ranting, but its possible using Racecar Tech basically...Lamborghini uses the same computer in their https://squadracorse.lamborghini.com...2-super-trofeo

    Anyways, enough ranting...basically IMO the Honda Engine Family overall starts from the best place technologically, since they push towards conservative power with efficiency and reliability.

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