Re-registering kitfox possible?

[av8rps]

You do not have to prove you built 51% of the plane. Otherwise no one could ever sell an unfinished project because you could never get paperwork from the FAA to fly it, which we know isn't true. 10 different people could buy the plane and work on the plane, all contributing a different percentage of the build, and then you could be the 11th guy to buy it, and then do the last 3% to complete it. That would all be legitimate. When you call the DAR or FAA to inspect the aircraft their role is to verify it is built to meet safety and compliance regs, and if it does they will then issue an airworthiness certificate for the aircraft.

The only questionable part of all that is whether or not they will provide you with the repairman certificate. If no one else has ever had the repairman certificate, AND you have assigned yourself as the manufacturer in all the paperwork, unless they feel you know nothing about the aircraft you have completed there should be no reason you should be denied a repairman certificate.

Of course, there can be inspectors that might decide to make up their own rules, or maybe just misinterpret the regs, but if that happens then you need to appeal to higher authorities as the inspectors are inspectors, not legislators. The regs are the regs.

The 51% rule simply states that the aircraft has to be built 51% by the amateur builder (or builders). In other words, you cannot purchase a kitplane from a manufacturer that is more than 49% complete when it arrives at your door. That's why kitplane manufacturers get their company and kit models approved on the FAA's list of 49% kits so people can buy a kitplane knowing it meets the FAA requirements TO BE AMATEUR BUILT.

There always seems to be a lot of confusion about this subject. But it really is pretty simple. However recertifying an existing, pre-registered aircraft adds some potential issues to all this. I personally would use the existing airwothiness certificate and befriend an A&P to help do your annuals. I think it would be simpler overall.

[Av8r3400]

By a friend who just had his plane inspected a couple of weeks ago, he needed to show in his logs and photos that he built 51% of the plane, in order to get the repairmans certificate.

These were the words of the FISDO inspector. Yes, that's his interpretation of the rules, but that is the bar we must uphold for him to pass the paperwork.

[neville]

About the repairman certificate: AC 65-23A ( change 1) para 4(a), applicant must attest to building more that 50% of the aircraft, which must be notarized.
Para 4 (e), Present satisfactory evidence such as construction log book, pictures, drawings. Para 7. certificate should be surrendered whenever A/C is destroyed or sold, however in the latter situation the repairman may elect to retain the certificate in order to perform condition inspections for the new owner.

AC 20-27G appendix 8 is used as a work sheet to calculate the 51% and should be presented to the DAR along with other evidence of being the builder.

[av8rps]

A friend of mine scratch built an award winning plane (from plans) but was denied a repairman certificate because he didn't have a photograph builders log. So I know that can happen.

Ironically, it was the 3rd plane he built, and he had no issue getting repairman certificates for the first two. But the inspector on the 3rd one had decided because he only had a hand written building log that he wasn't eligible for a repairman certificate. But my friend challenged the FAA, using the regulation itself as his defense, and he was given his repairman certificate.

Now I don't think it should be a big deal to do a photo log if you are building an airplane. But the reg does not require that. So until it does, I think allowing inspectors to make up their own rules will just lead to a loss of more freedoms and more rules that will ultimately limit more of what we can do with our experimental aircraft.

Sorry about standing on my soapbox, but I feel strongly that if you don't exercise your rights you are likely to lose them. It's still America last I knew.

[neville]

Your soapbox stand is words well said.

[Delta Whisky]

There's plenty of great experiences and knowledge contained in these responses. I'll add my two bits this way:

Lots of folks think that there is one FAA for the good ol US of A. In my experience that is definitely NOT true. There are almost as many FAAs as there are ACO, MIDO and FSDO offices. They have a habit of interpreting the regs differently. So, unless you have experience with a particular person or office, why risk asking a question that might be answered in a way that you don't like?

I would not start by calling your local FSDO office. Instead, I recommend that you start by talking to the locals that have recently acquired their AW certs and get a feeling for the attitudes of the FAA rep or DAR they worked with. Once you find one with a reputation for interpreting the regs in a manner that at least somewhat matches your plans, then talk to him/her and obtain an input as to how you can "in the interest of the administrator" do what you would like to do. Good luck, Darrel

[HighWing]

These last few responses are spot in in my experience and opinion. We had at our local FSDO a guy that loved experimental aviation. He was everyone's favorite and observing what he looked for when he examined my airplane made the FAA seem like a practical operation. Then the story a close friend and neighbor tells is worlds different than so many we hear today - especially with the DAR program. As he has told the story many times, he arranged for a man from his local FSDO - near Half Moon Bay - to come by for a pre-finish inspection. While he was there, he asked questions regarding planned build techniques and components needed to complete the project. After the many answers, the FAA guy said he would sign it off as it stood with the understanding all would be completed as planned. The Airworthiness Certificate was signed and the Repairman's Certificate was approved - airplane currently 2500 hours. I am not suggesting this is the best way, but it serves to illustrate the variety of personalities we come across in all aspects of aviation. This last sentence reminded me of the time my wife and I were entering the gate at Livermore, Alameda County, CA where I was finishing my first Model IV when a young FAA - newbie, I presume - stopped us demanding identification to verify our legitimacy being on airport property.

[kitfox2009]

Good morning folks
Need help in finding a DAR located in Washington who would complete a import inspection on a 2008 Kitfox Super Sport that was built in Canada but is being purchased by an American pilot for use in the US.
The ac has just over 200 hours and all Transport Canada inspections and documentation is in place.
Any suggestions. The Spokane area would be ideal.
I am still helping the widow with selling this super Super Sport. The purchaser having difficulty finding a DAR.
All suggestions welcome.
Cheers
Don

[kitfox2009]

Administrator
Kindly move this to a more appropriate thread.
Thanks
Don

[avidflyer]

Did you try looking on the FAA.gov website for a list of DARs and their location. I'm sure it's there some where. I've been on this PC way to long this morning already, or I would do some digging for you. Maybe look on the EAA's site as well. JImChuk