Question Phase one limitations

[Harleyboykf]

I received this response from a broker about a kitfox 3 that I am considering purchasing and was wondering what exactly it means and how long will it take to go through this process and at what cost. (( Out of annual and needs the new phase one limitations flown off )(Since the logs were lost there is no record of the original phase one flight
test being done. Therefore the new operation limitations will have a new
test area to complete the phase one testing and how many hours required to do so. ))

[TahoeTim]

You have to fly off 40 hours of testing before taking a passenger. You make a log book entry at the conclusion of the 40 hours. You can find the exact lingo for the entry on the web:

I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous operating characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation . The flight test was completed under the following conditions: maximum operating weight XXX, maximum demonstrated airspeed XXX, and minimum demonstrated stall speed: XXX.
Aircraft in phase II operation . Signed_______

Due to my unique location, I was able to get my test area extended from 50 miles to 100 miles so I could test at sea level. It was fun to strap in bags of dog food to simulate a passenger and baggage to test at rated weight. (A Zenith 601, not a kitfox).

I am more curious about how the FAA will rule regarding the build. Will they allow you to be listed as the builder and as a result, do the annuals and repairs yourself?

[Harleyboykf]

Thank you Tim for the info. This is just the beginning. I haven't even gotten my student pilot cert.yet. Ready to take the written (Gleim Home/online study material completed). I'm wanting to get my own lsa so I can save on costs in the long run + Tok Alaska doesn't have an light sport to train in. I have to check , I think there is a lsa cfi.

[N981MS]

Phase I is a test of the airplane. Likely 40 hours for that airplane. Sounds like it was probably done but if no records the FAA may consider it never happened despite how obvious from the condition of the airplane.

In a typical phase I it is NOT a time for flight instruction. It sounds like that may be what you are after. Also, historically, phase I was required crew only. Meaning just the pilot. Newer regulation allow a passenger who meets certain very stringent requirements.

Given the newer regs and since this may not be a typical phase I it may be that you can get some instruction during that time although it is not the intent of phase I to get primary flight instruction.

If you want insurance you should check that as well. Many do not allow student pilots in any experimental much less a student during phase I.

[efwd]

Funny, I met a guy a few months back that is doing all that Maxwell describes. I can't understand an instructor who would blatantly violate these rules. Initial flight was conducted by the instructor then from that point on the owner has received private pilot instruction and he is flying solo inside the phase one hours. I don't believe he is even wringing out the aircraft and or compiling data. I consider myself a student of others follies. .

[Harleyboykf]

Thanks Maxwell, very informative. I hate to pass up the opportunity here with the airplane but was thinking that from a legal standpoint that I wouldn't be able to fly it until I received my sport pilot cert. and then I could fly off the Phase one.

[N981MS]

Here is the FAA AC on taking a second pilot. Qualification matrix is on page 12. Honestly, I have not read this whole thing. I guess I would if I had an imminent need.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_90-116.pdf

[Dave S]

Hey Pete,

There is a right way of doing this stuff even if it is not typical; and, we have one list member who did it successfully. Might want to take a look at his history on this list.

See Kitfox of the Month on this list for January 2016. Patrick H built his Kitfox not having a Pilot's certificate. The Key is having a good relationship with a qualified person, I believe a commercial rated instructor pilot in this case who would do the aircraft testing on his behalf. There is no law that prohibits a person other than the builder from being a test pilot - other than having the correct airman's certificate.

So Patrick built it, another qualified person tested it - then Patric took instruction from that person once the testing was complete and earned his Pilot's certificate in his own Kitfox. While charging for the aircraft for instruction in an experimental aircraft is prohibited; taking instruction in an experimental aircraft which has been tested is entirely OK.

With regard to goosing the regulations to try to work around other challenges I like to quote Admiral Hyman Rickover of the US Navy....."If you are going to sin, make sure you sin against God and not the bureaucracy. That way you have some hope of being forgiven."

Check out Patrick's contributions to this list - there are many ways of getting to where we want to be....."git 'er done!"

[efwd]

I wonder how many flight instructors would be up for flying off somebodies phase one for free? That would be great if they were willing to do that for the fun it would entail. Of course if it were me I would prefer to be the instructor for you in your plane in return, for a flight instructor fee of course. I would consider that a win win myself. Forty or so hours at no cost in a Kitfox. That sounds fun as hell.
Eddie

[N981MS]

Absolutely legal to get private pilot instruction in an experimental after phase I.

I am not certain, but don't think so during phase I. Certainly I would consider it unwise.

The bugaboo can be insurance. It can be had but can be a bit tough to find for a student in an experimental.

Unlike a car, insurance is not required to be legal. It may be required by your bank. You probably want it to cover your assets.