Glass panel questions;

[av8rps]

I could use some help from the group determining what to do with my panel;

I have an older black and white MGL STRATOMASTER in a plane I want to make a new instrument panel for and am considering upgrading to something colored, and newer. But the more I research, the more confused I'm getting. There are not only a whole bunch of choices, but also a multitude of approaches (e.g. standalone MFD, I Pad with Stratus and Foreflight, an iLevil with additional software, and/or using a seperate engine instrumentation display like an EIS from Grand Rapids, etc.)

Also, it seems that figuring out the real cost of all you will need by the time you have it all figured out is a huge guessing game since almost no one sells a complete, easy to understand and install package. So any info telling me what to expect for final cost would also be really helpful.

I really would like the ability to have synthetic vision and gps all in one unit I can put in the center of my panel so it can be seen equally from both seats. My current thoughts are using an I Pad with a Stratus 2 and an annual subscription to Foreflight. I can do that for around $1200 plus the $200 annual subscription. But then I need a seperate engine information system.

My next thought is buying a $1300 iLevil 3 AW along with the Foreflight subscripion and a Grand Rapids EIS adapter that lets all the engine monitoring go through the I pad also. I'm guessing that will still be under 2k total plus annual fee.

I would like to hard wire and hide under the panel the ahrs unit (I hate loose crap all over these already small cockpits, been there done that...), but it seems that might be an issue because of tube and fabric construction causing signal loss? (Or so I read). Anyone have any experience with that?

But after thinking about all that, am I better off just biting the bullet and spending the big bucks to do a Dynon or MGL all-in-one?

I will admit that not only do I not like an airplane without at least some old fashioned steam gauges, but I also have a hard time spending 10 grand for a dual screen set up like seems to be more and more common. In my head I still like to think homebuilts are supposed to be inexpensive. So I also have to admit that I really have't researched the all in one units as much as the previous options. But maybe I'm sellimg myself short and therefore need to remain open minded.

I really like some of the great features of the new glass panels, and am not knocking those that opt for the best. But I'm thinking there has to be some middle ground on all this. And maybe I just don't know what I don't know?

So anything you guys can do to steer me in the right diection I would appreciate.

[bumsteer]

Can't be of any help in your choice, but I totally agree about the number of choices. At Airventure, you could walk into any of the 4 hangars, throw a dart and probably hit someone selling some type of glaas panel display. I will admit the all-in-one displays are what I'm considering. Best of luck with your decision.

Rick

[Norm]

I would also like something a little nicer but don't have any budget so I will stay with what I have for now. One that I have always been curious about is the SkyLab Flybox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri5GB0ywQQA
I can never find much more that this video so I am thinking it was a failed attemp at bring glass to the ultralight community. Does anyone have any more info on this interesting attempt?

BTW my GR EIS blew up when I was doing the install so I went back to the steam guages I had on hand. Darn......

[WWhunter]

I have been looking at the same thing as you. I have dreaming of doing a total stripping of my panel and upgrading to glass. My main focus though is for a split screen. The one half will have engine management, with the typical flight instruments on the other side of the screen. Navigation these days is easily down via phone/tablet/GPS so I should have everything covered.

I posed the question on the EAA site on what type of unit would be best and basically admonished for asking! Since my question also mentioned that my flying was mostly low and slow, the responses were that I didn't need 'gadgets'.

I really like the Demon and Advance brand units but have also read good thing about MGL and GRT. I think Paul Dye just installed one of the lesser known brands in one of his planes. If a smart guy like him, uses one, it should be ok.

Oh, I should also mention that I read somewhere that the updates can get expensive on certain units and are free on other units. I believe this was for the mapping features.

[efwd]

Oh yes!. I had not considered the cost of updates and sales people won't mention it either. My Garmin panels will be costing me in the neighborhood of about $600 a year! Crrraaapp! There are less expensive options but you forgo stuff like airport maps and sectionals etc etc.
Eddie

[DesertFox4]

Paul, as much as I would have loved to put two beautiful Dynon or MGL full featured panels in my new Kitfox 7SS, I too have a limited budget and opted for the MGL Lite in the Explorer version which is 8.5". I didn't have panel space for a 10" screen. The MGL Lite has most of the full featured virsion so it will do everything I need.
My goal was a dedicated screen with IPad back up with Stratus wifi AHRS. I've found the Ipad to be unreliable here in the Phoenix heat for a primary flight instrument. It shuts down way too quickly in warm enviornments from over heat. Also in any turbulence it is not easy to precisely control your screen inputs.
I haven't fired up the new Exlporer Lite yet but am close. I will keep my Garmin Aera 500 which also has traffic and weather. I purchase the Ipad Air 2 and the Stratus 2b for my model four so I already had that setup.
The MGL uses an Rdac box to hook all your engine sensors to and it mounts on the engine side of the firewall with a can bus cable that carries all engine info. through the firewall to the iEFIS screen. Neet set up and simple to wire. The 3 sizes of MGL Lite screens also have the auto pilot brains inside, just buy the servos. The sreen also can control transponders and radio frequency changing. I did purchase the MGL V6 radio with built in intercom also.
See photo below of my panel set up.
IMG_2733.jpg

[jiott]

av8rps, in my opinion for VFR flight you don't need dual screens or any steam gauge instruments for backup, just a single screen. If the screen goes dark, the Kitfox can be easily flown just by looking out the window and using wing attitude to regulate airspeed. Some means of backup navigation is good to have, but that can be had fairly inexpensively with portable GPS, hand held radio with VOR capability, or the best and most popular-an Ipad with Foreflight and Stratus ADS-B receiver. I would never recommend using a portable device such as an Ipad as your primary instrument.

I have been flying for 3+ years with a Dynon Skyview single screen and no other instruments other than a radio (transponder is built in to the Dynon). My backup navigation is Sporty's handheld radio w/VOR and my cellphone with the free Avare app. I don't know about others, but Dynon makes it very easy to choose what you want and then add up the total cost on their website, or any of their avionics dealers. If you want airport diagrams, approach plates and sectionals, the subscription cost thru Dynon is $100/year I believe, which is much cheaper than Garmin. All the Dynon database updates and all their software upgrades are totally free to download and install. I fly with the Dynon 10" screen split into 3 parts-primary flight instruments, moving map, and a small strip for engine instrumentation.

[Danzer1]

I have been flying for 3+ years with a Dynon Skyview single screen and no other instruments other than a radio (transponder is built in to the Dynon)

Just a little clarification - the transpondeer is not built-in, it is a $2,200 add on box - option/upgrade, plus the antenna.

Greg

[colospace]

My thought process is like Jim's, single screen should be sufficient for day VFR.
I have boxes of all the Dynon stuff to be fully ADSB compliant as well as receiving ADSB in. I figured any issues would be easier to sort out if I only had to deal with Dynon. I hope to start working on wiring schematics soon so I can get the panel, etc. populated over the winter.

[Guy Buchanan]

You asked a big question so I'll offer a big answer. How's that? And I know most everyone knows this stuff, but since you didn't mention it in your question I thought I'd remind you.

First you've got to define your mission. I see the following flavors:

• Resale - If you're going to build to sell, or refurbish the avionics to improve the sale price, then you can purchase any avionics that will resell at full value. This obviously depends on the aircraft. (Nobody's going to pay for a certified G1000 system in a Kitfox, whereas they might in an Evolution.)
• Day VFR - This is my category. For this you only need a compass, airspeed indicator, altimeter, some engine instruments and paper charts. Maybe a radio and/or transponder if you're in an area that requires it.
• Light Night VFR - This means you're going to fly around a little before sunrise or a little after sunset or when you're absolutely certain to have good air and ground visibility. No cross country allowed. Standard VFR instruments will do it.
• Night VFR - is really IFR, since you can fly into a cloud or black hole anytime and you'd better have the instrument capability to handle it.
• Light IFR - Yes, there is such a thing, particularly here in Southern California where, if you live on the coast, you're going to want to be able to punch up and down through the marine layer most of the year. Problem is you've got to have the discipline to recognize you're only going to do that light IFR and not punch out through a fast cold front when you need to get somewhere.
• Hard IFR - You know the minimum instrumentation required for IFR. For what I call 'hard IFR' I think you need to add a lot of redundancy, since you'll be relying on the instruments in bad conditions and over long periods of time.

So have you defined your mission? If like most Kitfoxes you're going to do light night VFR at most then all you "need" is the basics.

The second step is to define your budget. Personally I tend to spend too much but like to spend too little so I usually end up spending just about the right amount. (Make sense?) I much prefer spending too little than too much, since the latter nags me forever, whereas I can forget the former. (Unless I buy stuff that breaks. Hate that.) You need to be ruthless about the budget thing because that will really help you define what to buy.

What about me? I run minimum steam gauges, plus a 2" display Garmin Pilot 3 with paper chart backup, and a GRT 2000 engine analyzer. I really like the huge red light that comes on when I go out of bounds on one of the engine parameters. (I have radio and transponder and compass too.) Using these I can and do go anywhere day VFR.

Recently my parents offloaded an old iPad that I loaded with free the "Fltplan Go" app connected to the $85 dual receiver Stratux ADS-B-in receiver available on Amazon. It works really well, particularly for traffic awareness. The iPad screen's horrible and it overheats like mad, so I would never rely on it, but the software is really good, and the system works really well, particularly for less than $100 total.

For the rest of the Ramona guys, nearly everyone has Dynon. (Mostly RV's.) Seems that after looking at total cost it's the best value solution. Most run single screen, no backups (day VFR) and many run the full 2-axis autopilot / FM solution that allows you to engage the autopilot on climb-out and disengage just before the flare. It will handle all the navigating in between. Some run dual screen if they have the space. (One day VFR guy claims his autopilot is his "emergency get out of jail free card". If he gets into IMC he'll just turn on the autopilot and cross his fingers.)

There you go. If you've gotta have glass, I'd seriously check into the Dynon systems. Otherwise I'd go minimum steam augmented by a stand alone GPS plus some kind of pad / Stratux combo plus paper charts.