Kitfox vs RANS, The Building Experience

[rainbird]

I can give a comparison between a scratch build and a Kitfox ss7. Really it's no comparison at all. The scratch build What I got was a set of paper plans on how to build the wooden structure and metal parts (landing gear, pedals stick struts). After that it was up to you to figure out what was needed and where to get it. Other than the plans there were no instructions. Then during construction I kept finding structural errors in the design that had to be corrected. After getting the airworthiness certificate three trips to the airport. Each trip something broke while taxing.. The third time I loaded it back on the trailer took it home and sawed off the tail behind the cockpit. The tail now graces the end wall of my shop as a monument to a project gone bad. That was 12 years work with no joy, but I did learn a lot about building an airplane.

The kitfox, a joy. There are very few hard decisions to make, (like how much money are you willing to spend ) everything you need is right there(you just have to find it), and step by step assembly INSTRUCTIONS!!! It's still going to take me two years of working to assemble it but the stress level is way down . I'm looking at flying in 2017 after 20 years of struggling to get there.

[Flybyjim]

I have always liked the Kitfox series but I learned in a Champ and liked the tandem seating so I bought a Rans S-7. The build was straight forward but I did not like the method of using two build books to work out of. One for drawings, part numbers and the other with drawings and instructions. After a few months I got use to the flow of using both books. The factory support was always fine, Ed Swab is the main guy you will talk to about questions you have. I like the plane and the performance with the rotax 100hp.

As stated above I always liked the Kitfox so I bought a kit with the quick build wings, With my past build experiences having wings built in factory jigs is worth the price and time saved. Brandon builds wings very well, you can see his pride in every glue joint, kudos to Brandon. The parts received were very well packaged, numbered and boxed in logical order, Thanks Debra. The build manual is the best I have seen in kit planes, everything you need in one place with lots of good illustrations. The parts so far have fit very very well, all prebuilt items (struts for example) fit perfectly. I am just about done with the wings and looking forward to starting the fuselage. As for performance I can only compare John's blue/white factory plane as that is what I test flew in. Great performer, solid, responsive control, predictable, stalls straight forward no surprise, comfortable seats and just about no noise in the cockpit.

Both companies have been good for me however fit and finish goes hands down to Kitfox. If you go to Oshkosh both companies are across from each other, just compare the hardware, panel, seats, baggage compartments and of course under the hood for easy access.

Just my thoughts.

Jim

[StuBob]

I can give a comparison between a scratch build and a Kitfox ss7. Really it's no comparison at all. The scratch build What I got was a set of paper plans on how to build the wooden structure and metal parts (landing gear, pedals stick struts). After that it was up to you to figure out what was needed and where to get it. Other than the plans there were no instructions. Then during construction I kept finding structural errors in the design that had to be corrected. After getting the airworthiness certificate three trips to the airport. Each trip something broke while taxing.. The third time I loaded it back on the trailer took it home and sawed off the tail behind the cockpit. The tail now graces the end wall of my shop as a monument to a project gone bad. That was 12 years work with no joy, but I did learn a lot about building an airplane.

The kitfox, a joy. There are very few hard decisions to make, (like how much money are you willing to spend ) everything you need is right there(you just have to find it), and step by step assembly INSTRUCTIONS!!! It's still going to take me two years of working to assemble it but the stress level is way down . I'm looking at flying in 2017 after 20 years of struggling to get there.

That sounds TERRIBLE! Just tell me the plans built wasn't a Falco or a GP4. I can't imagine throwing that much work away. But after that, anything with instructions would seem easy.

This business of instructions is a big deal. I'm working on an RV8. People say Van's has terrific plans and drawings. Personally, I don't see it. I've looked at the Kitfox instructions and they look like they'd keep me out of trouble. It isn't 100% clear to me that they're better than RANS -- the guys on ransclan.com don't seem to complain. But I'm sure they're better than Van's and they'd be good enough.

[rainbird]

It was a rather obscure designer on the East Coast. Not a Falco or GP4..I would rather not say who the designer is because I don't like badmouthing anybody. Good advice is to pick a well known designer and a design that has been well proven. That is a big reason why I chose the Kitfox. It is so nice to not have to redesign the whole thing and to have predictable results. It is also a real neat plane that meets my needs.

[jmodguy]

StuBob
I'm in Carmel IN and have a Kitfox 5 project at Metro airport. The 5 is similar to the 7. I have the fuse covered and the wings are built but not covered. You are more than welcome to come take a look.
I also have a GP-4 at home in my garage if you want to take a look at that...

[efwd]

15 years ago I built an RV4 empennage. I honestly never recall having any questions while working with their instructions and I know I never called Vans for answers and I never had folks on line like this to lean on. I was very comfortable working with aluminum. Using the Kitfox manual has been very pleasant and I do lean on people here to glean some direction as well as the McBeans. They are very willing and encourage me to ask them for help when needed. I have made mistakes and thats what prompts my calls to Idaho. The build is moving along. I will complete this one. Im tired of seeing others fly their kitfox's but I will continue to watch them for inspiration. My favorites are the Youtube videos by Steve K "Kitfox flying Arizona Desert". I learned to fly in those deserts and have crewed many hours on UH 1H and Blackhawks in Steves backyard. Keep em coming Steve. Looking forward to having you show me around there in my own Kitfox someday.

[HighWing]

A very interesting thread and entertaining as well. I have no experience building a Rans or a Series 7, but have some thoughts. I have to disagree with Jim regarding his "I have a hunch..." comment. The earlier Kitfoxes were easier to build as the project didn't include Trim Actuators or Telescoping Rudder Pedal torque tubes - frequent topics discussed here. I built two of the earlies one from Denny and one from Skystar.

My comment about the Rans I am most familiar with - and keep in mind it was a S-6 ca. 1999 or so. On our first group flight to Idaho to explore the back country our first fuel stop was Winnemucca, Nevada. The least fuel purchased of the six airplanes for a top off was 7.2 gallons - a Model IV Kitfox. The most was 14 gallons - the S-6. Most were in the 11 - 12 gallon range for the three hour trip. We flew many trips together - Idahp, Oregon, Washington,Wyoming and Montana plus our one trip to Oshkosh - and loved the S-6 along as having two 9 gallon wing tanks, our friend, the pilot was the best low fuel indicator possible. I see that the S-7 now has 26 gallons total. Don't know if that was the case with the early S-7 but doubt it - the S-6 still the same.

Winnemucca for fuel.

[LSaupe]

One other factor might also be company and forum support. When I built my Kitfox, the company and forum support was really great (and I was building an old Model III). It would be rare that I would go more than a day without resolution on a question/problem I might be having. Any parts need from Kitfox were also quickly fabricated (if needed) and shipped.

My only interaction with Rans was with their bicycle division. What I experienced for customer support was poor at best (and these are some higher end bikes/recumbents). Hopefully the aircraft division is much better (they have also sold off the bicycle interests). I have no experience with their aircraft side of the house.

[av8rps]

I can believe Lowells' 2.4 gph number. Flying an aerodynamically clean 912ul Kitfox 4 with much slower, draggier aircraft could allow the Kitfox to fly at significantly reduced power settings. My 912ul Kitfox 4 with two 14 ft heavy and draggy amphib floats only burns a hair over 3 gph at approx 100 mph. So if I got rid of those floats and slowed down just a bit it wouldn't be too hard to get the fuel burn down by another half a gallon per hour.

These planes are really efficient. I once tested my plane just to see how low of a power setting it would fly at while still maintaining altitude...at approx 3500 rpm and 63 mph my fuel burn was less than 1.5 gph. And I could have flown forever at that speed as it flew just great even with that super low power setting.

Sorry for getting off the original building question this thread was started with.

Paul

[StuBob]

Sorry for getting off the original building question this thread was started with.

Paul

Pssht! It's the internet!