Newbie. Dumb pre-sales questions.

[enewmen]

Hi All.
Happy I'm able to post now, but not sure if this is the best place.

I felt deprived of space in urban apartments my whole life. I'm moving to a small farm in rural Wisconsin and I thought it can make a good landing strip.

I'm in flight school and been reading about Kitfox for a long time. So I'm getting closer to buying one. The plane looks like a fantastic STOL/BUSH ride with many accessible places in grass airports or some BLM areas..
So I'm trying to get the a Kitfox to take-off from a 1200' back-yard then do cross-country work to get to those remote locations.

So, is it possible to buy a Kitfox ESLA based on the SLSA with about 90-100% completed? Then have autopilot (that comes with Dynon glass for example) & other instruments installed for me to help with the cross-country travel while I need to check an aviation chart ? Asking about the autopilot because I didn't find that in the parts catalog.

Then after buying, I can ask about a 16 hour (LSRI) course for that plane, intro to Kitfox specific flight training, Tail-wheel Endorsement, and Mountain-Flying Proficiency training.

Is all this possible? Can someone point me in the right direction?

thanks!

[tx_swordguy]

I am not 100% sure on this but I believe the ELSA birds are mostly gone now (I believe it was a way for the FAA to get the fat ultralight birds of many flavors to become registered and legal and ended around 2008) The repairmans course you are thinking about can be taken and used if you are the builder of the plane. If you find a project that is not in airworthiness trials yet and all the photos, building logs etc to convince the DAR that you built it when he does the airworthiness, you should be able to go the repairmans route and do your own conditional inspections. The kitfox 1-7 were never designed to be flown in 103 ultralight, so I seriously doubt there were any completed as ELSA. Experimental Amateur Built is a different class of certification with different parameters. Now with all this said anyone can work on an experimental aircraft, the sign off on conditional inspection is the only thing that required a signoff by an A&P or IA. If all this is wrong hopefully someone will correct me but this is my understanding. As for the autopilot I am sure anything is possible, but the plane should be able to be trimmed to fly level for you to look at charts for short times (or just get a small car gps that shows off road travel as a back up). Not sure I would want to be plotting a whole new flight plan in the air anyway.

[WWhunter]

1200' is more than enough for an experienced pilot at WI. altitudes. I'm not far from you, being in north central Mn. I originally put in a 1,000' strip at my place. This was surrounded by the proverbial 50' trees. I used to keep my Champ here and now keep a RANS S7 here. I recently lengthened it, so now have 17-1800' and am hoping to get my 172 in here also.
If you have fields or open areas a 1,000' strip should be fine once you learn how to fly the KF.

Not really sure on what you are wanting in regards to your other questions though. You can buy a quick build kit that has a lot of the harder work done but that will cost you money (lots) or the standard kit and do your own work. I am under the impression from your post that you really aren't interested in doing much building. Your 90-100% completed question can be done if you find a kit at that stage of completion. Not many out there in that catagory but you will find a bunch in the 50% stage.

I bought one that is probably close to that 90% completion. I purchased it for my son but he ended up buying a Cessna 170B so these planes are out there, just harder to find.

Auto pilot, sure, if you want one go ahead and install one. Personally I just think it is added weight and costs/complexity for these small planes. Not sure what your financial limit is but that panel and auto piot is going to be a sizeable portion of the completed cost of the plane.

[Flybyjim]

I am building a SS7 at this time. I bought the quick build kit and hope to have it in the air in2017, I just started the build this past November. I work 50 hours a week for $$$ and so my build time is small amounts of time. I do/have taken some weekend time and worked long days 10 hours to complete larger tasks. I have built a couple of planes before and I like the Kitfox manual best, easy to follow and you can start either with the fuselage or the wings or switch back and forth depending on your needs. I also have a 1200 foot airfield on my farm that I fly a Rans S7 and a Champ out of, no problem at all with either. I have no concerns with the Kitfox. I had the opportunity to fly John's Kitfox and 1200 feet is much more runway needed for this plane. Good adventures in your journey, there are many on this site with more experience than I so these are just my thoughts.
Jim in Pa.

[Paul Z]

SLSA can be converted to an ELSA. I was talking to Kitplanes “Ask The DAR” Mel Asberry. He does the inspections for the Legend Cubs SLSA in Sulphur Springs, Texas. Mel said he says he quite frequently inspects, the Plane as an SLSA for one of their Customers, and then immediately does the paperwork to convert it to an ELSA. They then deliver the plane to an A&P to do requested conversions to the Legend Cub prior to delivery to the customer.

[WWhunter]

If I understand things correctly....once it has been converted to the ESLA catagory does that not take it out of the catagory where the owner can take the 16 hour class to be able to sign off his own work?

All this stuff can get quite confusing. Isn't the SLSA the only catagory that a person can get a repairmans certificate, besides the EAB catagory of course, but that is for the original builder?
From my understanding the only people that can get this 'certificate' are for the SLSA planes and they have to be built exactly like the factory built/sold versions. Maybe there are exceptions, like getting a factory authorized change but this catagory seems quite restrictive. The benefit to the catagory is its ability to be used for rental/training, am I correct?

Besides the EAB catagory of course, but that is for the original builder.

Am I totally confused? Most likely!

[enewmen]

Thanks for the posts!

Let me explain a little more to help understand my crazy plan.
The kind of flying I want to do is take the plane on long rides from Wisconsin to places like Idaho where a Kitfox does very well in. Then to the Bahamas and on to Anchorage.
My thinking is if I can get a Kitfox "decked out" with glass, turbo, AP, etc., it can make all day cruising with oxygen at altitude easier. (I'll never plan to make new flight plan in the air anyway). Then fly "low-and-slow" when I arrive.

If I don't need a large useful load, I can save a lot by not getting a larger certified cross-country aircraft and keeping the plane in a barn instead of an airport hangar. So, a "decked out" Kitfox will also cost a lot less than a 1980s C-206 (for example), I'll be using a lot less fuel, and spend a lot less on maintenance! I understand a larger plane will offer a faster/smoother cruising flight, but the Kitfox should be a lot more fun.

@ WWhunter. Your correct assuming I didn't want to do a full build.
I'm not against doing a normal build. But after I get my PPL, I won't have a plane to fly for a year until the build is done. - I can rent a C-172, but rather not.

I searched and didn't find any used Kitfox planes configured for cross-country flying. So it seems I have 2 choices:
Get a SLSA with the glass, AP, turbo. etc. with every option I want. Then keep it as-is or convert to ESLA & do LSRI (like Paul Z said) . I don't think I can alter/add much after the factory build is complete (Factory upgrade or personal upgrade).
OR
If that's not possible, just do a normal EAB the way I want it. I'll just need to learn a lot, invest in some tools, and put in plenty of work.

EDIT: Maybe either way it's a good idea to get a 120 hour Light Sport Repairman's certificate like Av8r3400 said. Doesn't sound like much if I spend 500 some hours on a build.

Please correct if I made any obvious problems with this plan.

[tx_swordguy]

don't know what your $$$ situation is but the 120 hr class is not cheap (to me) so make sure it is something that will work for you and what you want to do. I am thinking those are ambitious flying dreams for a kitfox (but look at what the flying pioneers did) If you deck out a kitfox (read make it heavy) it will not be the super STOL plane you might think it is, so keep that in mind with what you are wanting to do with it. I think the 7 may be more what you are looking for than the model 4 I am wanting. This site is a wealth of information so I suggest you spend some time searching and asking questions before you drop money. going from the bahamas to alaska is a LONG trip in a plane pushing maybe 100kts especially with a headwind in the 30-40 kt speed at oxygen alt. If you go with a 3-4 doubt you will see 100kts anyway so think even slower. Not that it wouldn't make for heck of a story and if you aren't in a hurry to get there why not do it that way. If you are interested perhaps you could rent a 150 and take it on a long trip to see if you are interested in that ( different but similar size cockpits) probably slightly faster cruise speed but close enough to give you an idea of what you might be dealing with.

[avidflyer]

Not sure if you saw it, but there was a Kitfox 5 unfinished project on barnstormers for $11,000 if my memory was correct. Needed a lot of work yet, and I think FWF. That would be a good head start in the direction of where you seem to be going. Cheaper than starting with a factory new kit as well. Others have toured the US in a Cub, but better not be tied to a schedule or deadline. The kitfox will be faster than a cub, but not by a tremendous amount. All that being said, the owner of this website flew from Az. to Mn. in a Kitfox 4 100 HP in one day so it's not impossible either. Jim Chuk

[Esser]

Any plane can be a cross country plane if you have the right attitude. I don't think you would add much weight to have a turned plane with a basic autopilot. However, if you want to go places, a glasair sports man 2+2 might be the plane for you. You pay for that speed though