Anyone got a cross part substitute for this? Thnx
http://www.usautoelectric.com/store-...097852490.html
Anyone got a cross part substitute for this? Thnx
http://www.usautoelectric.com/store-...097852490.html
-Aeropro CZ Aerotrek A240 Tri-Gear SLSA 912uls
-Airdale Avid+ on CZAW Amphibs 'FatAvid Floater' (building)
-Kitfox 4-1200 TD 912ul (sold)
-Kitfox Model III TD 582 (R.I.P.)
-Avid Flyer Mk-IV TD (sold)
i would think any 12 vote solenoid will work such as a ford solenoid from around the 70,s/80,s. it has two small post but only use the one marked "S" to energize the starter. hope this helps.
Thanks Jim.
Not sure exactly what my issue is, but I have learned that starter solenoids are rated for intermittent duty and master solenoids are rated for continuous duty. Unfortunately, aircraft electrical is not my strong suit and chasing electrical problems is a real irk for me. I have received a suggestion to consider using this item as a replacement to the spendy Denso starter solenoid, should that actually be at fault:
MerCruiser Power Trim/Starter Solenoid Item Number: 89-96158T @ $20
BTW, here's a description of my problem for anyone willing to take a crack at it... after several starts prior in the day, turn of the key brought only rapid clicking and no starter engagement. Just like what used to happen on my 1965 Ford Galaxy 500 high school ride when the battery died, but the aircraft battery charge was ok. Additionally, the clicking seemed to originate from under or the panel forward, not the master solenoid on battery box behind the seat.
Never the less, I removed both solenoids to test their operation. I could hear the plunger was free in the master solenoid when shaken, however, I did not actually put power to it. I did jump the starter solenoid using the car battery and determined the solenoid would activate with a single click.
At that point, I figured perhaps the starter solenoid was not grounding properly due to the firewall blanket. So, I cut that blanket away and remounted both solenoids only to have the same problem. An overnight charge on the battery also had no effect. I can't quite tell but, in addition to the starter solenoid clicking when the key is turned, it does seem that the starter might be spinning. Due to other noise around the hanger it's too difficult to hear or locate without having someone else turning the key.
Appreciate any comments or suggestions on what to pursue next? thnx
[EDIT] I would add that I removed the starter solenoid before testing to avoid creating any potential problems doing so when wired into the system. Now that it is back in, I would like to try another test.
Tell me if you think I will harm anything if I remove the wire from the spade terminal and, with a screwdriver, touch the spade terminal and the hot part of the solenoid to see if the starter engages. Shouldn't think so, however, don't need an expensive learning moment either!
I am also taking a voltmeter with me next time. Is this the correct method to test the starter solenoid?
- Set voltmeter to 12 volts.
- Attach the negative probe from the voltmeter to a negative ground.
- Attach the positive probe from the voltmeter onto the positive wire leading off of the solenoid that runs from the solenoid to the starter post.
- Turn the key on the ignition as if I was starting and read the voltmeter.
Am I correct thinking that if the solenoid needs to be replaced, the meter will read little or no voltage. If the solenoid is good, I will get a solid 12-volt-plus reading on the meter.
Last edited by dholly; 05-08-2013 at 10:42 AM.
-Aeropro CZ Aerotrek A240 Tri-Gear SLSA 912uls
-Airdale Avid+ on CZAW Amphibs 'FatAvid Floater' (building)
-Kitfox 4-1200 TD 912ul (sold)
-Kitfox Model III TD 582 (R.I.P.)
-Avid Flyer Mk-IV TD (sold)
I just got caught up on this thread. Having worked with the marine stuff in a former life, the marine solenoids work well. Mercury used the same solenoid for years on trim systems and on the starters of their outboard motors for years. If I had to replace mine, that's probably what I would get. FWIW
Mike Bentley
Model IV-1200
Jabiru 2200A #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body
Prince Prop (64x34)
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Your idea to test the solenoid with a voltmeter is a good way to test. I would not use the screw driver method. A good solenoid is a White-Rodgers 70-918 (used by Cessna) for less than $20. Don't buy it from Cessna though, as it will cost about $80. If you use it, mount it upside down and the small terminal goes to ground thru the starter switch.
dholly,
I'm not sure what you mean when you "jumped the solenoid" with a car battery. Do you mean that you powered it's coil with 12v & it "clicked" once without the rapid continuous clicking that you could hear before? If so, it may be ok. If that's the case, you may have a bad switch (or a poor connection somewhere in the circuit). One test to perform is to use your voltmeter & touch the negative lead to the metal case of the solenoid, & the positive lead to the connector/wire that normally goes to the small tab on the solenoid (disconnect it from the solenoid) & measure the voltage when the switch (key switch?) is activated. If you don't have at least 12 volts, or whatever voltage your battery is producing at that time, then the switch or wiring is also likely bad.
John Evens
Arvada, CO
Kitfox SS7 N27JE
EAA Lifetime
Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime
All - thanks for your help. I hoping to get to the hanger this afternoon with a meter and also double-check my starter post connection. Should know more then.
mr bill - is that a starter solenoid or a continuous duty master relay? If the latter, can I use a continuous duty master relay in place of an intermittent duty starter solenoid (I know you can't swap the other way)? I read some starter solenoids have internal diodes to dump excess voltage spikes, dunno if that is important on the 912 system?
jrevens - thanks, I will test the ignition switch too. About the 'jump test'... maybe not the best choice of words, but here's what I did. I grounded the Denso solenoid by holding the metal base against the car battery (-) post and used a long screwdriver to connect the (+) battery post to the Denso excitation post spade terminal. And, yes, I got a single clicks rather than multiple, repeated clicks or buzzing. After I reinstalled the starter solenoid, I get a solid buzz when the ignition key is turned to the Start position. [edit] I took a quick video with my phone but not sure how to attach here?
As I understand, one can supply power to either large post of a starter solenoid because it is internally grounded via the body or mount, and the coil is energized by supplying power from the switch to the tab lug. Jumping from the hot side post to the energizing tab lug with ignition switch wire removed from the spade lug will power the starter (or not if the starter solenoid is bad). Again, don't want to steer anyone wrong, but I can't see how this would hurt anything as a quick field test if you don't have access to a meter.
However -and one must be careful here- a master battery solenoid works just the opposite, ie. the coil is connected to the battery side internally and you turn it on by supplying ground to the other side of the coil. Read: don't put power to both large posts on a master relay unless you need a new one!
Last edited by dholly; 05-09-2013 at 11:32 AM.
-Aeropro CZ Aerotrek A240 Tri-Gear SLSA 912uls
-Airdale Avid+ on CZAW Amphibs 'FatAvid Floater' (building)
-Kitfox 4-1200 TD 912ul (sold)
-Kitfox Model III TD 582 (R.I.P.)
-Avid Flyer Mk-IV TD (sold)
The White-Rodgers 70-920 solenoid is rated for continuous duty. The starter solenoid is model 70-914 and the small terminal goes to ground thru the starter switch. Approximate same price for either. An external diode is required with these contactors, 1N4005 will work nicely.
Last edited by mr bill; 05-09-2013 at 07:39 PM.
Some solenoids may have internal diodes, but you can add a diode to the coil circuit of any solenoid. The purpose is to protect the switch that you are using to activate the solenoid. Without it, the collapse of the magnetic field when the solenoid is deactivated, or turned off, can create a "spike" that can cause a bigger & much more powerful than normal arc to occur across the points, which can damage them. Again, damaged/burnt contact points on the switch are one possible cause of the chattering, as well as any other poor connection anywhere in the circuit for the solenoid coil.
John Evens
Arvada, CO
Kitfox SS7 N27JE
EAA Lifetime
Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime