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Thread: Pre-Purchase Questions

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Huntington Beach, California
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    Default Pre-Purchase Questions

    I’m looking for some help on selecting my Christmas present to myself this year. I understand I am somewhat speaking to a biased group as you are all Kitfox owners/builders but it seems like most of the responses are well thought out in the forums.

    I am down to considering two non-comparable airplanes, the Kitfox and the Van’s RV-12. I am not really looking for differences between the airplanes but differences between the kits. Let me say right now from a preference point of view I like the Kitfox better. However, I think the documentation on the RV-12 kit components is more through at the pre-purchase phase.

    1. How complete is the Kitfox kit? Beyond the kit components does one have to buy fuel lines, wiring harnesses, instruments to have a certifiable airplane? The RV kits indicate you only have to buy paint and fluids if you build their E-LSA kit.
    2. What is a reasonable build time (total hours) to assume? Van’s lists 900 to 1200.
    3. Because of the restraints place by building an E-LSA kit several RVs have been put on hold while they wait for Van’s to complete an upgrade to a Skyview system. I understand that this is not an issue with the Kitfox, but have there been delivery issues with kits?
    4. Finally, I have an issue with the purchase agreement. Vans will take a credit card but Kitfox doesn’t. I don’t need the credit to buy a kit but I do worry about a firm filing BK between the delivery of my check and the two week waiting period for it to clear. Does anyone else share this fear?

    Thank you

    Jim

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dorsal's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
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    Central, MA
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    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    Can't speak to the differences between the kits but KF appears to be a very well run and stable business. I expect the reason they may not take credit cards on the big purchases is to avoid giving part of your money to the credit card company. I have only been dealing with John and Deb for four years or so (some on the group much longer) and have found them to be direct, honest and a pleasure to deal with. I have every confidence that Kitfox Aircraft under it's current ownership will be with us for quite a while.
    Dorsal ~~^~~
    Series 7 - Tri-Gear
    912 ULS Warp Drive

  3. #3
    Senior Member MotReklaw's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
    Location
    Anniston, AL
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    300

    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    Same as Dorsal regarding differences between RV12 and KF SS....

    I used my credit card for the deposit on my kit and when I picked it up at the factory, I carried a certified check to cover the difference. Made sense to me since there were no "carrying" charges.

    They've been honest in my dealings with them, even sent a part free when there was a question....

    I do know that the RV is a pre-punched ready to assemble kit. The KF will require a bit more time, but the quality of the kit parts is top of the line. I've built other homebuilts from kits and they didn't compare.

    I think if you worked diligently, you would have no problem in completing a KF SS in a year.

    Good Luck!
    Tommy Walker in Alabama

  4. #4
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
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    2,048

    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    When you buy a kitfox it comes with everything firewall back except avionics and paint. If you buy one of their firewall forward kits to go with the plane it comes with everything you need to mate your plane to your new engine. As their website says, when you buy a kitfox kit it even comes with the plastic zip ties. I also put my deposit down with my credit card.

  5. #5
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
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    2,960

    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    I bought a Kitfox SS7 in March of this year and there was about a 90 day waiting period because of factory backlog. I am now about 1/2 done and estimate I will have 1200 hours or so at completion. The kit is very complete in my view and has a second to none builders manual complete with directions and beutiful CAD drawings for every step. All parts including nuts, bolts and washers are labeled with part numbers referenced in the manual. All covering materials including fluids are included up to the point you start using a spray gun. Wiring and instruments are not included, which gives you a lot more personal choice than a Van's RV-12. I also used a credit card for down payment and small optional items ordered later. I highly recommend this company and the quality of the kit and factory support.

    Jim

  6. #6
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Aug 2008
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    Arizona
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    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    but I do worry about a firm filing BK between the delivery of my check and the two week waiting period for it to clear. Does anyone else share this fear?
    No. Your funds will be safe and sound and lock in a delivery date for the best flying kit aircraft available today. What a great Christmas present. Guaranteed
    to come in a color you like and it will exceed your expectations every time you fly it. Kitfox Aircraft LLC. will exceed your expectations every time you deal with them too.
    Jimmyg, I hope we hear real soon about your deposit and delivery date of a Kitfox 7 Super Sport kit. Wishing you a very Merry Kitfox Christmas.


    DesertFox4
    Admin.
    7 Super Sport
    912 ULS Tri-gear


  7. #7
    Senior Member jtpitkin06's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
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    Greenville, TX
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    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    I assume you are asking about the Model 7 SS.

    “How complete is the Kitfox kit?”

    The “Kit” meaning the complete airframe kit less engine or firewall forward package is very complete in most areas and strangely lacking in a few areas. There are a lot of things you will need to purchase to complete the aircraft. Listing everything included is way too lengthy. It is easier to list what is not.

    No fuel line or fuel valve to the engine. Fuel system includes tanks and hoses to the header tank. Valve and line to engine is part of firewall forward (FWF) package.
    No firewall sheet metal. FWF.
    No instruments. Engine or Flight. Instrumentation is a personal preference item so it is best to do the shopping on your own for those items. For that reason there is no standard wiring harness.
    No electrical system. FWF.
    No throttle, mixture, etc controls. Part of FWF.
    No lights. Interior or exterior. Optional
    Dual brakes optional. Single standard.
    No joy stick grips. Most people would trash them, anyway.

    No upholstery or seat cushions.

    No color coat PolyTone. All other covering included.
    No radio, transponder, intercom.



    “What is a reasonable build time (total hours) to assume?”



    Depends on your skill, dedication and available time. One team built a Kitfox in less than two months, as I recall. Some take more than ten years. Are you buying an airplane to build or an airplane to fly? Really, if you just want to fly, buy a completed one S-LSA. Others want the building experience and don’t really care how long it takes. Most of the reports on this forum say it takes 1000 hours.


    “… Have there been delivery issues with kits?”


    The only issue right now is the Kitfox is very popular. You will have to stand in line to get one. When your number comes up you will get everything you ordered and a very detailed checklist. After checking my inventory of thousands of items there were ZERO errors. Debra does the picking and she didn’t miss a single item. I had a few ribs back ordered and received them about two weeks after the kit arrived. I used Partain for the shipping and they are great. No crating necessary with Partain. He pads it like fine furniture.


    “I do worry about a firm filing BK between the delivery of my check and the two week waiting period for it to clear. Does anyone else share this fear?”


    Did you try calling them and asking about options? Sometimes all you need is a simple phone call to work things out. Ask if you can show up on the doorstep with cash in fist on the day of lading; or, wire the money while you stand there; or, hire a representative to be there in person for you. Talk to them.


    Regards,
    John Pitkin
    Greenville, Texas



  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    ca
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    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    Having built an RV and well into my SS7 build, the main thing I would add is that the two builds are VERY different in terms of materials and design. On the RV you are actually building an airframe from bits of metal, while on the Kitfox it's more a case of attaching things to an already existing skeleton. The RV is a stressed skin aircraft held together with rivets, while the Kitfox (fuse anyway) is already structurally done when you get it. There are lots of things on the Kitfox that go together with structural adhesive which is a new, but not difficult, skill to learn. Of course the biggest difference in the build is that on the Kitfox you get to work with fabric. I am personally looking forward to this part very much having built covered model planes as a kid.

    The two companies are different animals, but both have treated me very well. I definitely get a more warm and fuzzy feeling dealing with Kitfox and John and Deb have always been very helpful with my questions or parts needs.

    One more thing worth mentioning. I could be wrong, but I think the RV-12 is required to be built exactly to plans from engine choice right down to the panel design. This is not the case with the Kitfox and I am certainly glad of it (check out the radial Kitfox on the website!)

    The bottom line is that both airplanes and companies are terrific so I'd say it comes down to which build you think you would enjoy more.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Jan 2011
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    LAWRENCE, KS
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    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    With my RV-6A, I did a lot of head scratching trying to figure out the plans and build order. I was also continuously worried that I did something wrong, interrupted the plans wrong or that the sub-assemblies I made s would not fit together into major assemblies. This lengthens the build time and upped the stress level to the point where building was rewarding, but not fun.
    With the kitfox, I just follow the directions in the booklet with very little head scratching. No endless sheets of plans to figure out. Also, the major assemblies are done for you (like the fuse and prejigged wings and all welding of control rods), so basically, I don’t have to worry much about putting something together backwards or that it won’t fit (all the little weldments tabs in the fuse are done for you).
    The Kitfox is plane #5 for me, and it’s the only one that has ever been truly FUN to work on !!!!! It does not cause stress; I work on it to relieve stress. I think that really says it all.
    Just me 2 cents worth.
    Roger

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Huntington Beach, California
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    3

    Default Re: Pre-Purchase Questions

    I want to thank everyone who chipped in on this with very thought out answers. I think you have given me the background information to allow me to make the choice I wanted to make. Now to see what the lead time is.

    Thanks again

    Jim

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