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Thread: Wanting to buy.

  1. #11
    DesertFox6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    I wouldn't worry the least bit about the 912, Super Trooper; my prime concern in your situation would be the construction documentation, workmanship quality and current condition of the airframe it's mounted in. If all that meets the approval of your EAA buddy, who, hopefully, is up to speed on the "Foxiness of Kits," you may have found the best of all combinations in an experimental aircraft. No kiddin'.

    I finished my Model IV Speedster in 1999 and flew it just days after my 50th birthday. The 80-horse 912 has been in it since 2000 when I replaced the original Rotax two-stroke, courtesy of Desert Fox 3, who was upgrading to the ULS (Thank You Ray!) and I've never looked back. It had 1400+ trouble-free hours on it when some knot-head taxied into me three years ago, bending one of my IVO prop blades 90 degrees backward while destroying his own wooden Sensenich and attached Continental engine! (That'll teach him!)

    Our local "Rotax Guru" actually zero-timed the engine upon tear-down inspection; the multi-piece crank was understandably a bit "crankier" than it should have been, and was promptly replaced, but the rest of the engine was otherwise undamaged: Unbelievable! I reinstalled it rather than replace it with the 100-horse. Why? Didn't need the extra ponies, price or fuel burn for the negligible increase in performance that MAY have appeared. That little beast is going to stay right where it is, under my Speedster's cowl, for the rest of its life: Unbelievably tough, dependable, trouble-free and as close to "turn-key" touring as you're going to find in an aircraft engine: That's the heritage of the Rotax 912.

    You'll find plenty of support for this opinion of the 912 among the "Kitfox Krowd" on this forum, for sure: Bombardier hasn't sold a zillion of them for no good reason at all, lemme tellya, but there's a deeper, almost "religious" experience that goes with it.

    If you don't believe me, you've obviously never heard Desert Fox 4 recite his "Prayer of the Rotax Tabernacle Choir" over VHF on a Sunday morning patrol of the Desert Fox Squadron enroute to Sedona for breakfast!

    11 years, 1500+ hours and still purring...

    "E.T."
    (Franklin? Franklin?? Don't they make stoves?)

  2. #12

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    Thanks for your imput! From reading this forum, and talking to folks in my area, there is no doubt in my third grade mind that the 912 is the engine to have. As you pointed out, they wold not have sold as many as they have if they were of lesser quailty.
    As for my "eaa buddy", I suppose I have to trust someone. Since the ac is 500 miles away I need a set of eyes to look it over and decide it airworthiness before I make the trip to look at the thing.
    Since I have never met the guy I trust the eaa program to judge it to be safe. If you, or anyone on this forum, has a better idea please let me know, I am always open to ideas.
    My plan is, that if the eaa guy says it is safe and all that, I would make the trip with a trailer and pull it back home and let the local "gurus" look it over for its quailty. I realize it may be a little late to hear bad news at that point, but my plans usually have a few(?) weak parts.
    I settled on a kitfox aircraft after talking to a ton of great people that all say kitfox is the way to go. It seems that the rotax gets just about the same respect.
    So, again, thanks for your imput, anytime.
    Yeah, the Franklin stove I had dealings with was not that good of a stove!

  3. #13
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    I concur with DesertFox6 on the reliability, durability and performance of the Rotax. It is a great partner for the Kitfox airframe.


    DesertFox4
    Admin.
    7 Super Sport
    912 ULS Tri-gear


  4. #14
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    The people who have the most time building and flying these airplanes will all agree that today, the Rotax 912 series of engines is the best match for performance, economy and reliability. Tomorrow there may be something else. But, for the 30 year history of this aircraft's lineage, the 912 series has proven itself to be the benchmark.
    Av8r3400
    Kitfox Model IV
    The Mangy Fox
    912UL 105hp Zipper
    YouTube Videos

  5. #15
    Senior Member dholly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    It certainly isn't my intent to rain on the 912 parade, but take a v-e-r-y close look at the Rotax Letters and Bulletins for that engine if you haven't already. You can plug in the engine s/n on www.rotax-owner.com and it will spit back all you need to know. Then pick up the phone and call a qualified Rotax repair shop. Speak directly to a tech who can confirm which actions are considered critical and get an actual estimate of how much that engine will cost to bring up to snuff. You might well be shocked into cardiac arrest after seeing what an early 912 will cost you, here's an estimate from a well-know qualified repair shop for one engine I (briefly) considered buying:

    There are a lot of service bulletins and updated required on this engine. Current TBO is 600 hours but can be extended to 1000 hours with updating.


    Stator Service Bulletin: Cost to comply $1300

    Oil Pump SB: Cost $110

    Rocker Arm SB: $2500

    Carb socket and carb updating: $450

    Oil Tank: $800

    Gearbox updating: $500

    Labor to R&R engine: $1500

    Gasket Set, plugs, filter, etc $2000

    IF THIS ENGINE HAS AN ALUMINUM BOX THAT CONTAINS THE IGNITION COILS AND ELECTRONIC BOXES YOU CAN EXPECT TO PAY AN ADDITIONAL 3K FOR UPDATING THAT.

    In total you can expect to spend 9k to 13k to update this engine.
    Other than that, 912ul is a great engine!
    -Aeropro CZ Aerotrek A240 Tri-Gear SLSA 912uls
    -Airdale Avid+ on CZAW Amphibs 'FatAvid Floater' (building)
    -Kitfox 4-1200 TD 912ul (sold)
    -Kitfox Model III TD 582 (R.I.P.)
    -Avid Flyer Mk-IV TD (sold)

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trooper View Post
    I have heard, and read here, about carb adjustments, vibrations and such. Probably not as much of a issue as I read into it.
    Am leaning to the model 4, speedster, since it qualifies as expermental.
    Did you mean qualifies as LSA? Amateur Build Experimental would apply to the Kitfox 5 too, and it could also be LSA if it had been ALWAYS limited to 1320 gross and NEVER operated with an air adjustable prop. The 5 with the tri-gear is the Vixen, and later models can be converted between either TW or tri-gear. I looked at a Vixen that was 1320 gross in the San Diego area a while ago.

    There are other 4-stroke engine options to consider.

    Speedster also fits in nearly any garage, at just under 20' with the wings folded.
    Dwight B. Van Zanen
    Maple Valley, WA and
    West Columbia, SC
    PP/ASEL/IA
    Avid Mk 4 Aerobat

  7. #17
    DesertFox6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    "...And then there's the Plague..."

    Tom Selleck's character, Patrick O'Malley
    High Road to China
    Warner Bros. 1983

  8. #18
    Senior Member DanB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    Luv it!
    Dan B
    Mesa, AZ

  9. #19
    Senior Member cap01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    great flick , forgot about it , will have to watch it again .
    chuck
    kitfox IV 1050
    912ul warpdrive
    flying B , yelm, wa

  10. #20

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Wanting to buy.

    Okay, I have did a little searching around and it appears that the NOT COMPLIED with for this engine (1993 model) are as follows:

    005 Increase TBO
    007 ground connection for pickup wiring
    015 Replacement of rocker arms
    028 Check or replacement of engine suspension frame part #
    030 Check for cracks, wear or distortion on carb flange
    044 Use of Rotax supplied airbox
    052 Installation/use of governors on 912's

    Did not find anything about oil pump being replaced or a service about it.

    Several Skystar service bulletins NOT complied with.

    Any thoughts?
    May have to look at the Series 5 with the Franklin. At least it is forty miles from here, thus more easy to check on.

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