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Thread: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

  1. #21
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    Sorry I don't. The switch I bought from either mouser, or digikey
    it's an industrial rocker switch. It was close, but slightly smaller, so I made
    an adapter plate for it, which I riveted to the console top using the
    existing switch hole.

    I'll look through my box of junk next time at the airport and see if I can
    find the box with a part number.

    Somebody mentioned using relays, which would be a better choice. Then
    you could use a REALLY light touch switch to control it.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    Almost positive the switch is a Carling Contura. It is repackaged by
    Bluesea systems as a marine rocker. It's rated at 20A, looking
    online it looks and specs identically to what I have so I'm just
    about positive it is the one I have.

    http://bluesea.com/category/4/productline/overview/147

    The Part number's would be 8222 (Gray) or 8290 (Black)

    They can be bought from a lot of marine suppliers

    Another manufacturer of nice switch is Apem

    Jeff

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Warrenton,VA
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    Bruce,

    I finally received the Flap Control Circuit Board from Van's that Randyl recommended. I am impressed with it's small size, packaging and workmanship. I have attached a couple of pictures that are not of good quality, but will give you an idea as to it's size. I like the terminal block provided. The developer and manufacturer of the circuit card is "Advanced Control Systems" in Canby , Ohio.

    Van's does not provide a schematic of what is on the circuit board, only how to connect it up. Based on analyzing the circuit lands on the card and going to the internet for the relay module design, I was able to establish the internal circuits. With that done, I generated a schematic diagram required to function in the Kitfox trim system, incorporating the speed control we discussed earlier. I will soon generate a parts list of everything required and where to purchase everything.Trim Control Board 01 (Large).jpg

    Trim Control Board 02 (Large).jpg

    My next step is to fabricate a prototype for test purposes and ensure that it functions as expected in the aircraft. Once satisfied, I will construct the final packaged configuration and hopefully forget about future trim problems. I forgot to load in the schematic diagram with the others, so I will provide it in the very next response to follow.
    --
    John
    Warrenton, VA

  4. #24
    Senior Member
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    wales,ny
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    John, Thanks for the photos and schematic, as I mentioned in an earlier post your knowledge and expertise is a welcome addition to this forum. Let us know how your test setup works . If you are successful I suspect many of us will be using your system. Bruce

  5. #25

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    Warrenton,VA
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    Bruce & All,

    The attached schematic drawing of the Trim Control Circuit I sent in the previous message had an error on it, so I deleted it from the Forum. The error in the drawing was that the up/down switch was placed in the hot side of the line to the relays. It should be in the return side of the relays. The attached drawing to this message shows the correct up/down switch configuration. The previous drawing configuration would not work with the Van's Flap Control Circuit board.

    I have also included the parts list for the Trim Control Circuit.
    --
    John
    Warrenton, VA
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Olympia, KY
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    John,
    I too am new to this forum, and like you I have a Series 6 serial no. S60007-032 (still working on it) that may have been purchased about the same time as yours. From my assy manual I have the notation that the label on the trim motor is:
    Motion Systems Corp.
    Eatontown, NJ

    9234C120-R8
    73833-011
    12vdc
    08-12-99
    I bench tested this unit and noted: 30.6 ohms
    This is Skystar P/N 61012.101 Trim Actuator as shown on page 25 of chapt. IV figure IV-11

    Good to make contact with you, been quite awhile since I came down to look at your Kitfox just before you covered it.

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    I later was able to establish that the actuator was manufactured by Motion Systems and I called them. The other numbers are for the motor itself.

    BTW, your serial number of S60007-032 indicates your Series 6 kit was manufactured in July of 2000 and is the 32nd kit for that year. My serial number indicates mine was manufactured in April 2000 and was the 26th kit for that same year. I strongly recommend that you change the design of your electric trim system, especially since yours is still in the build stage.
    The current design is bound to fail in the feature. Mine failed twice for the same reasons.
    --
    John King
    Warrenton, VA

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    To All,

    I finally installed and flight tested the electric trim control circuit I developed that contained the Flap Control Board designed by Vans for the RV's. The new design also includes the speed control circuitry discussed earlier by others on the Forum. All of the circuitry except the two switches is mounted behind the instrument panel for easy access. There is actually no room in the center console due to all of the fuel lines, rudder cables, venturi lines, etc. This does require an eight wire harness to connect the console switches to the control circuitry behind the instrument panel.

    I have attached two pictures of the switches mounted on the center console. The fast/slow switch is mounted to the left of the trim indicator. The new trim up/down rocker switch, which I obtained from John McBean of Kitfox Aircraft next to the flap handle, has a plastic insert because the switch dimensions are smaller than the existing mounting hole. John McBean also provided that. I prefer this switch because it requires a softer touch to operate. I have yet to install the labels for the switches. The slower speed position and the softer touch rocker switch is real nice for making slight trim settings in cruise.

    You may notice the access door I made in the side of the center console for easy inspection of the console interior and access to the trim switches. It is a lot easier than having to remove the side covers of the center console.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    San Francisco
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    Sorry to bump this 13 year old thread but thought I would post because its still an issue. I have a Series 6 and had this intermittent trim problem at around 90 hours flight time. This thread mentions two causes of the intermittent trim problem: 1) gunk in trim motor's commutator and brushes and 2) arcing in the switch.


    First a warning. Although others seem to have successfully taken the trim motor apart, cleaned it, and put it back together, it's not for the faint of heart. As careful as I was during disassembly, four washers fell out leaving me scratching my head as to the proper order and I didn't want to guess. Other problem is that getting the brushes back properly is very difficult. My suggestion is to do what I did and just order another trim motor assembly from John McBean.


    In my case, the problem turned out to be arcing in the switch (see photos). I was initially fooled into thinking the switch was fine because when I removed the connector to the trim motor and measured the voltages there I got +12V with down trim activated and -12V with up trim activated. The issue though was that because of the worn contacts, the resistance was too high. Replaced the switch, and all worked fine.


    Since this problem has not been reported since 2008, my guess is that only the Skystar kits that had the old arc-prone trim switch. The new rocker switch from John McBean is different.

    Attached are photos of the affected Skystar switch, the messed up contacts, the delicate brush assembly of the trim motor, and the washer assortment that fell out when I opened the motor up
    trim-motor-washers.jpgtrim-motor-brushes.jpgtrim-motor-switch-contacts.jpgSkystar-switch.jpg

  10. #30
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intermittent Electric Trim Actuator

    Thanks Dan for the update on this issue. Hope your info will save others down time and some money also.


    DesertFox4
    Admin.
    7 Super Sport
    912 ULS Tri-gear


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