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Thread: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

  1. #31
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    Roger - To be the voice of reason, again, I would call for someone out there with a Kitfox-VW to please step forward and tell us of their success. I would gladly offer a retraction of my skepticism. But, the silence of this group is deafening, due to, in my opinion, the fact they do not exist.

    If in the 70 years of VW history and near 30 years of Kitfox history these two have not matched, I don't believe they ever will. Lowell makes some valid points as to why.

    I can comment on the reliability issue from seeing several local VW powered aircraft that do not fly due to their owners being afraid of their engine's reliability. This includes an Aerovee powered Sonex suffering ignition, carburetion and general power related performance problems.

    Also as point of evidence, a few months ago, there was an article in Kitplanes Magazine (I think) on a VW powered 701 that was built extremely inexpensively. The owner commented that he was not flying it much until he is able to repower it with a Rotax. Siting performance and reliability as his reasons for the repower.
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  2. #32

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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    All I know about this is what I read here and elsewhere online. The guy with the VW Kitfox I reported on (quote above) seems to have been satisfied with the performance and reliability he got from the Great Planes engine with a 62" X 32 pitch wood prop. The plane has been flying for over 10 years. But I have to go by what he reports, for performance. I have not flown in the plane to see for myself. Knock off some for the Classic, since his is a Speedster. It really would help if others with a VW engine would speak up here, to give honest performance numbers and comment on any reliability issues they have seen. And if they attribute any reliability issues to the engine or to maintenance.
    Dwight B. Van Zanen
    Maple Valley, WA and
    West Columbia, SC
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    Howdy Guys;
    I have contacted the fellow with the VW powered kitfox in St. Louis (it's on barnstormers), he will be sending me pictures and performace data. When I get it, I will post it for the group for review.

    Regarding the comment: "If in the 70 years of VW history and near 30 years of Kitfox history these two have not matched" Well, I say, yes they do match, and here is the link: http://www.greatplainsas.com/chooseaircrft.html

    More matching in action: This is a good flying example:

    Watch it climb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRWzKMYz9eA

    Oh baby, it sounds so sweet -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5x-ifHEi0g

    "Sort of an explination about the VW Kitfox": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ficAq...eature=related

    It's been pointed out that because the VW engine requires the larger cowling, and has a limited diameter, so it can't be all that fast. I agree with this myself, and am trying to verify the typical cruise speed of a Kitfox-4-1200 with the 2180 engine (note; a 2300 cc engine with aluminum cylinders is now available too).

    In the mean time, I believe it to be about 100 mph at 3000 ft msl, based mostly on hearsay, guess work what the guy at the psychic hotline told me (Also Great Plains VW). Is that fast enough ???? Shoot; my Kitfox 2 with a 582 would only cruise at an honest 75 mph, so 100 sounds awful fast to me !!!!! (Note: The guy in the video is running a super climb prop, with a very flat pitch for quick off-the-field performace).

    Really, my concern is the rate of climb, and obstacles 50 feet in elevation at the end of a short runway, cruise speed is secondary to me.

    I am looking at installing a 2300 cc VW engine with low compression (7.5:1) so that I can run car gas. It should produce about 75 HP at 3500 rpm, which I think might drive a somewhat fair'ed Kitfox-4 at 100 mph, but like I said, I am trying to verify this with some other flying planes (I see a VW powered Kitfox 4 on barnstormers).

    Agree?

    Roger

  4. #34
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Av8r3400 View Post
    Also as point of evidence, a few months ago, there was an article in Kitplanes Magazine (I think) on a VW powered 701 that was built extremely inexpensively. The owner commented that he was not flying it much until he is able to repower it with a Rotax. Siting performance and reliability as his reasons for the repower.

    Kitplanes magazine, April 2011 issue.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    At 02C we have a KF4 with an A65 modified to use C85 pistons and cylinders that has been flying for the last year. It flies very well, cruising at 115 mph, both single and two place. They made their own sheet metal cowl. I am attempting to attach two pictures.
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  6. #36
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    Mr. Bill;

    Thanks for posting the pics of the Continental. I see there is some real space between the firewall and the back of the engine, so I guess the engine weight was not really and issue CG wise, otherwise the engine would be mounted closer to the firewall if it was too heavy.

    However, I am not too clear on the engine modification. Are you saying this A-65 now has the displacement and power of the larger A-85? It is still a hand prop'ed engine, correct?

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    The engine retained the A65 crank and has no starter, alternator or vacuum. There is an external throttle on the passenger side that allows hand propping from behind the prop while maintaining engine control during startup. They designed their own sheet metal cowling that is 5 inches lower than normal, giving better visibility while on the ground and in the air. They use a handheld radio for comm and vor.
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    Mr Bill'

    Is it possible for you to find out what the empty weight of the kitfox is with the Continental engine and also if they had to do anything to adjust the CG (such as add tail weight)?



  9. #39
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    The engine weighs 179 pounds (exhaust, prop and oil brings total to 209). Aircraft empty weight is 690 pounds, the only ballast is a motor cycle battery in the normal battery location behind the baggage compartment. It has an RV4 tailwheel assembly, which lowers the tail on the ground, which lowers landing speed. This plane has the short wing.
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  10. #40
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Continental 65 HP or more, Ok on Model 4 ????

    That sure is a nice looking install and custom cowling.

    You should run that beauty up north here this year. I'd like to get some Avid/Kitfox events started in this neighborhood. There's a lot more of us around than you would think...

    Do you have skis? There's a nice fly-in at Airdale, on the lake next to Brett's house - just south of Rhinelander, in late January.

    Send me a message and I will get you my phone number for more details.
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