912 uls vs Viking HF110

[Dorsal]

I hope someone with a 914 chimes in but when I looked into this the info I got suggested that below 5000 there is not much of a difference in cruise, over 15000 you might see as much as 20+ mph better. The extra 15 horse on takeoff can't hurt either in the end it was to rich for my blood an I did not want the added complexity of the turbo.

[DesertFox6]

"Top speed" is something I used to worry about in a previous type of aircraft where it mattered...but we used Mach and "G" meters in our comparisons.

My never-say-cough 912 UL has been moving my Model IV Speedster all over the western USA at an average of 100 mph and 2.8 gph for over 11 years, which is giving me about 35.7 mpg or, at max gross weight, about 1200 lbs of fun per minute.

When the rest of the nouveau-engine world matches that record, I'll pay attention; until then...I'm busy flyin'!

And the 914? One of our local builders, a several-national-EAA-award-winning-champion whose Kitfox craftsmanship has graced the covers of a FEW EAA mags, had a 914 on his last trophy-winner and he said he'd never do that again. I'll trust his judgment explicitly on that count...YOW!

"E.T."

[chefwarthog]

Thanks for those explanations Dorsal, you have my trust.
I would like to see how fast a Kitfox can cruse with a Hf 110 in front, You think it could do 15 miles/h + then a 912uls, it is almost the same wight.

The guys of Viking have install one of there engine in a Escapade Aircraft that look like a Kitfox, the engine assembly look really neat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCyPo...embedded#at=50

Have a good weekend, guys.

Eric

[Dorsal]

You think it could do 15 miles/h + then a 912uls, it is almost the same wight.


Eric

Definitely not, the reason a 914 can pull this off is because it is turbo normalized and does a better job maintaining power at altitude. Based on the specs alone (not what I would base a decision on) I expect the engine should perform comparably to the 912S. I do agree it looks cool and I like the Honda core, interesting option to keep an eye on. Personally I am not an auto conversion type guy, I like an engine that was designed from the ground up to run at 75% to 100% power all day long. That said I admire and respect those who go down this path (very much looking forward to hearing about John's Corvair Fox) thats one of the things that make this hobby and group so much fun.

Are you building at this point or just thinking?

[Andrew G]

Warning... major pontification ahead...

Chef, you aren't going to get many of the veterans here too get excited about an experimental engine because there have been too many engine schemes and none of them, except Rotax, has been a successful commercial LSA venture - yet.

The Rotax works well and performs as advertised. It just costs 2x as much as it should, and it aint perfect yet. My complaint with Rotax isn't the engine per se', it's the value proposition... which is a cool way of saying it's way too #*$& expensive.

Guys like you and me can only dream that one day a well-healed, technology-laden company like Honda or Yamaha will invest in an LSA aviation engine package that can successfully compete with Rotax. Sadly, those two Japanese companies probably have bigger fish to fry lately, i.e. like staying non-radioactive...

The two USA engine biggies, Lycoming and Continental tried in a bare minimum kind of way to produce a competitor but are pretty much staying with the proven after-market sales (servicing old certified planes) and brand new $170 - $500k planes. Continental committed to the Cessna LSA, who knows if that's a long run mutually rewarding deal or not. From all my reading, Rotax is a better engine than the Continental choice.

The big driver in commercial aviation investment today is Asia... Asian airlines and governments are spending gajillions in airframes and engines and business jets. Asian airport infrastructure is immature coupled with incredible road congestion and immature road infrastructure... which is good for us in the long term because the demand for cheap air travel will be HUGE in Asia... and anytime a market increases, we all benefit.

Asian General Aviation infrastructure is almost zero... which frankly is our only hope here in the USA that those countries build their General Aviation infrastructure, and pave the way for overall General Aviation (including LSA) growth in LSA engine development.

And in a final pontification note... I read recently that the head of Cessna's sales, the guy who paved the way for Cessna to sell the Skycatcher (Continental powered) is now working for Flight Design... a Rotax-powered LSA heavyweight (in terms of sales volume)... that kinda legitimizes LSA and will help propel LSA sales and drive a bigger LSA market, which hopefully will drive engine innovation.

Until then, we have to justify the extra $10k investment in these LSAs... or purchase an engine from Mr. Egg and hope the gearbox will last... and as anyone who has ever bought newly introduced software or hardware, the consumer is the test pilot...

[chefwarthog]

For you info my dear Dorsal, I am not building at this point, but I am doing more then thinking, I see Kitfox every where, even in my cereal in morning. I have dream of flying since my childhood, now that my two kids have grow up and have leave home, I have learned that I will be grandfather............,

But I have to build my garage prior to order my kit. I am the kind of guy that always make up invention, I am happy when working with my tools.

But I don't want to bother you guys with my romance, in the general discussions at ''Is it possible?'' I go through all this garage thing, but I have ask a question that no budy have anwser for now, so if any have this drawing but with wing fold it will be nice if you can email me. Just to be sure that my dream will fit nice and tight under my garage's truss, blueprint.

thanks for your support.

Eric

[Squirrelfox]

To Andrew....Well stated. Either we experiment or pay the fiddler. The fact is that many of the kitfox owners operate in hostile territiry. I can surely see why a 912/914 must be the only option fot all the brave souls in mountain terrain... The turf that surrounds my view is quite docile. I'm sure it makes me a little reluctant to pay Rotax their liability extortion.

To Eric...Keep that dream alive. My kitfox dream tormented me for a few years. Kit on order and I know not what the future holds. One step at a time and evewry now and then reinvigorate the dream. We must constantly "bother" each other about our dreams. Heck...this forum is a support group for romantic flyers...Otherwise we'd be flying spam cans!

Congratulations Grandpa...I'm a new one myself last week!

Eddie

[Dorsal]

Cheers to that and congratulations to you both.
I used to see Kitfoxes in my cereal too, dreams are never a bother.

[Av8r_Sed]

Are you going to be the first to fly it in a Kitfox? Please take lots of pictures of your installation and share the progress. We need more pioneers.

-- Paul S

[Dorsal]

While I am excited to see new engine options for aviation it is my opinion that you should not compare service hours in a car (generally at a fration of rated power) with service hours in a plane at 75+ percent of rated power.