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Thread: Kiev Success

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    Kelly,
    If you decide to sell the Kiev for cheap, let me know.
    I had to work for a while to get the pitch spot on for my aircraft but now I love it and wouldn't go back to the Warp. In fact my Warp is mounted on the wall and at some time I will sell it for cheap I think.
    Dick

  2. #12
    N82HB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    I have flown it at two dofferent settings. Once my static was 5400 rpm and I thought that would be close enough for a flight or two. My Warp was set to the 5200 rpm limit established by Rotax. With the flatter pitch of the Kiev I figured it would be fun to try. I was climbing at 1100 fpm instead of my normal 1600. I leveled off and it was slow (90), but that was expected. I repitched it and this time the static was around 5060. Ted, from Kiev, said they will often pitch to around 5000 rpm static, even though that is against the Rotax advisory. So I thought this could be fun to try, for the cruise speed. I leveled off and got up to about 102 instead of my normal 110 to 112.

    So I have found it to be slower at a cruise setting and less climb in a climb setting than my Warp in a middle setting. I am real happy about their protractor, so I am comfortable that the blades are REALLY close to the same pitch.

    I love the look and it is dramatically smoother than anything else I have been near. I do like that, but the Kitfox performance is most important to me. I am not giving up yet, but getting pretty disappointed.

    I am looking for help finding the magic in this propeller.

    Thanks,
    Kelly

  3. #13
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    Smile Re: Kiev Success

    A couple of days ago I tested my Vixen (912UL,70 inch Patriot IVO IFA) for climb performance. I climbed out from CYYF (1120 ASL) at about 70 IAS and 5500RPM for 19 minutes. I leveled off at 12,000 ASL!!!. At full throttle and finer pitch I could still achieve 5200+RPM and close to 300FPM.
    Needless to say I am pretty happy with this!!
    I am not saying this is the BEST propeller possible but I cannot see how ANY fixed pitch propeller can match performance of an in flight adjustable.



    Don

  4. #14
    Senior Member Monocock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    Hi Don

    Whilst in principle I completely agree with you, I have recently been talking to a friend with a S7 that has the same engine as my S5. He has an IFA Ecoprop. His take off performance is a fair bit further than mine and his cruise is the same.

    So, in terms of physics and expected performance I would agree with you. However in practice, I would never take my Kiev off for an IFA. I would be out of pocket for no extra performance and just added weight. I accept that this situation is unique and that the majority of aircraft will perform better with an IFA. However, this situation proves that there are always exceptions to the rule. I don't believe I would beat my 1700 fpm and 110 kt cruise very easily and if I did, would it really be worth the £3000 to do it? I don't believe so.

    I have been wondering why Kelly isn't finding an improvement in performance with his Kiev and I just can't work it out. Perhaps it's yet another unexplainable situation (like mine).

    EDITED TO SAY: I SEE SOMEONE HAS REMOVED SOME POSTS BELOW SO IT LOOKS AS THOUGH IM TALKING TO MYSELF!
    Last edited by Monocock; 07-13-2011 at 10:46 PM.
    Kitfox 4 (1050)
    912UL
    Based in UK

  5. #15
    Senior Member Monocock's Avatar
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    Default

    That's the average of a reciprocal heading measured via GPS, so effectively TAS. Granted, the 110 kts is at 5500 rpm. At 5000 rpm I am getting 100 kts which is my preferred power setting for cruise. I would be interested to know if anybody thinks an IFA would provide me with a better cruise at that kind of setting.

    On the basis that the static is 5200 I don't think the 1700 fpm is bad. This is 1 up and with three quarters (70 litres) fuel from sea level at 15c. It is the kind of climb I would expect with a much higher static (finer pitch) hence the reason I'm so impressed with it. I also have quite a low empty weight compared to a S7 so I also accept that helps a lot too. Two up (same fuel and temp) I can expect 1000 fpm which is quite a big dent in performance.

    I genuinely don't want my quoting of performance figures to sound like I'm willy waving but I just wanted to get across that I don't think an IFA offers a draggy airframe like the Kitfox the level of benefits that it might do with a slippery ship. I don't doubt there IS a performance enhancement with one installed, I just don't think for me it is justifiable based on current performance figures.

    I'm a little biased in that I think the Mk 5 is the perfect balance of airframe and weight out of all the KF's but I do also know of people who can easily get similar performance (less maybe 10% cruise) in a Mk 4 with G/A props. It is for these reasons that I think the Kitfox is such an utterly superb aircraft all round no matter what model ! I want a second one!!

    Crikey, ok it is actual SOG that is quoted above, my terminological oversight for which I sincerely apologise Sir!!

    At 1500 feet AMSL I think we might be in the realms of disputing how much a 10% tyre wear on your car affects then indicated speed on your speedo!!
    Kitfox 4 (1050)
    912UL
    Based in UK

  6. #16
    Senior Member cap01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    willie waving ? never heard that term over here in the colonies
    chuck
    kitfox IV 1050
    912ul warpdrive
    flying B , yelm, wa

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    chuck,
    I think "willie waving" is British for a "pecker contest"
    Dick

  8. #18
    N82HB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    Monocock,
    What propeller do you have? Is it the 283?
    What degree do you have your prop set to?
    I am not quite ready to give up on it, but right now I am still not happy. I just made a 250 mile cross-country and I am still looking for the magic.
    Thanks,
    Kelly

  9. #19
    kitfox812's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    I have the Kiev for the Rotax 912uls with 2.43 gear reduction. I don't have my paperwork with me but I think it was the 283. It replaced a Powerfin which is now on the wall for sale. I tried the 5200 rpm on takeoff and got a fantastic climb rate but the wot rpm was over 5800 rpm. The "other" site had a thing about setting the prop so the wot rpm was below 5800 in case of throttle cable failure. I set my pitch so the wot rpm was about 5700. My climb rate suffered but my cruise went up about 5mph. The word on the other site was that the static rpm is just a starting point and I agree. BTW, I get 5200rpm within 10 seconds after liftoff then start my climb. I like this pitch setting and will keep it for awhile....Great Prop!!!!
    Rich
    Kitfox Series-7 taildragger
    Rotax 912ULS
    SuperCub Wannabee

  10. #20
    Senior Member Monocock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kiev Success

    Kelly

    No, mine is the 263. The 283 has not yet been approved in the UK for use on the 912 even though it is deemed by Kiev to be the most suitable match for the engine.

    As for pitch, the Kiev pitch setting tools aren't that standard (look like they have been made by a 6 year old at nursery school !!!) so are more of a "relative comparison" than a definitive angle. I just have my static set at 5200. I seem to recall that shows 16 on the Kiev scale.
    Last edited by Monocock; 07-13-2011 at 10:52 PM.
    Kitfox 4 (1050)
    912UL
    Based in UK

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