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Thread: New guy looking for advice

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2024
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    Default New guy looking for advice

    Hello all, this is my brief introduction so I will try my best to keep from writing a small book here. In an attempt to help you understand what I am capable of I will preface with my back story. I have been interested in aviation my whole life, started scratch building RC planes and flying them when I was 16 and couldn't help but dream of one day flying myself. I enjoyed the build and wanted to build an ultralight. Well money was the obstacle then (though it is still a determining factor today) and I have never lost the bug. Looking ahead, I have been lurking, from buying plans for the ragamuffin that I never had time or space to build to today where I now have the means to do so. I have been researching everything and that is exactly where I am at today. I like the ability to have an adventure so I am looking at bush planes, having a conventional aircraft like a Cessna (I have flown in several of them over the years), the idea of hopping from airport to airport would get boring at some point. So onto my ability, I am a self taught engineer, designer and fabricator. I have designed suspension systems for vintage 4x4 vehicles and build custom first gen broncos for a living. I have the facility, ability and tools to make one from scratch if I wanted, so I would consider myself a highly skilled and capable beginner.

    So back when I purchased my first plans and started looking into it, the thing that stopped me was I did not want a single seat plane, then I knew I wanted more comfort, ability and range. I started looking into the Rans and doing research then stumbled onto the kit fox. I also have watched just about every video I could find on the aircraft and am trying to decide which one to pursue. I have watched the transformation on Trent Palmers channel along with most of his friends who have various planes. I am not ruling out a cub either (a little partial to that due to my RC super cub I used to have) but not sure my wife would like the inline seating.

    Onto my initial criteria, first I am not a pilot yet, that has to be achieved which the plan was to do so while building. Second I am a big guy, while I am working to reduce my weight, the fact is at 50, it's easier said than done. I am active and healthy for the most part outside of my weight but not on any meds etc. and I shoot competition, do a lot of off road riding etc. and I want to add this in the future as retirement approaches. I am looking for property as I intend on building a barn-dominium and having enough land to put an airstrip.

    So what I am looking for is pros and cons between the different aircraft, models I may need to consider etc. I need to figure out how it should be outfitted as I do not have the time to have several versions or rebuild etc to figure that out as I go, basically buy once cry once. What avionics (leaning towards Garmin glass), auto pilot, turbo powered etc. I like the rotax 915 but I am also someone who likes to be a little different than the norm so also looking at alternative power plants like the edge 912Ti (I know still a rotax) but there are other options that may be worth exploring. Knowing weight is everything the edge 912Ti has a slight advantage over the 915 with weight and power. The easy button would be to just have one factory built, not out of the realm of possibilities as I have a lot going on but I like to build things so there is no real fun in that.

    If there are more details needed from me please ask, again I am in the research phase so trying to be as well prepared as I can going forward. I know there is a reasonable time frame from ordering a kit to receiving it so I am building that timing into my plan. I have also considered the idea of buying an existing plane and restoring/rebuilding it but at the cost of what is available out there and how much I would end up changing on it I don't think that is a conducive option. In reality had I been aware of Trent selling the Freedom Fox, that would have been a strong consideration for me but trying to understand the differences in models over the years and wanting as much interior room as possible that the 7 has the best features available at this time. I have not contacted Kitfox directly yet as I am still trying to educate myself beforehand so I know exactly what to ask for.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Spring Garden Illinois
    Posts
    954

    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    Welcome to the Kitfox forum. You can find out about anything you want to know about kitfoxes here. There are kitfox kits for sale now if you don't want to wait 18 months for a kit. Check barnstormers and the classified here.
    Harlan and Susan Payne
    Flying FarmFox STI Kitfox N61HP
    Rotax 915is, Airmaster prop.
    https://www.youtube.com/@KitfoxPilot/videos

  3. #3
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    St Paul, MN
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    1,881

    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    Tom,

    Welcome to our group!

    I don't know that I can answer your questions specifically; however, here are some ideas you might consider.

    I believe your background regarding mechanics, motor sports and auto restoration gives you a good understanding of your ability to build a machine. Different science and different hardware, but mechanical principals don't change. Torque is still torque. Certainly many are successful particularily due to the excellent build manual Kitfox provides and support from the kit manufacturer and community. If you know SAE fastners you can learn NAS/AN hardware.

    One point which I think is important is to not rely only on what you see on the internet. You have to know how the plane works for you and know your intended mission. The best way to do that is to turn off the phone and get out there in the real world and visit someone willing to show you their aircraft. Get in it and sit in it. The best is to be able to ride/fly in a kitfox model you are interested in. That will give you an idea how it fits and how it feels. You really have to know your reasons for taking the project on and that can only occur in your own thoughts.

    There has been one person on the list who built first, took training in his kitfox after it was off phase 1. That was due to the fortune of being very good friends with a person who was a CFI and also willing to do the 40 hour test flight required before training him. That is a real unusual situation.

    The side by side cockpit is great - my wife normally occupies the co-pilot's position and handles the radio and navigation work.

    The kitfox has one of trhe better load capacitities out there. My wife and I typically load up the two of us, 27 gallons of fuel and 140-150 pounds of camping gear or other stuff - all within the 1550# weight limit and balance.

    I am pretty much a look out the window guy so just fine with a spartan and economical panel. We fly a trigear which, although it is not a "bounce of the rocks riverbed" nachine, handles grass and some unimproved strips well. It fits any airport we have ever considered including an 800 foot ultralight strip (after considerable short field practice before).

    Getting your pilot's certificate and immersing yourself in aviation activities will lead you to where you end up with what you want. Don't forget about joining an EAA chapter either. - Lots of resources there.

    Fly well
    Dave S
    Kitfox 7 Trigear (Flying since 2009)
    912ULS Warp Drive

    St Paul, MN

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    Welcome to the group! Building vs flying! Two completely different parts of Experimental aircraft! For a zero time pilot, I would not recommend starting with "build a plane." I would recommend getting your training in someone else's rented plane. The experience will also tell you a lot about your capabilities and better define what aircraft best fits your mission (guaranteed, your mission will change as you gain experience).

    If you have not already done so, you need to spend some Time in the seat of a Kitfox! Not just a sit in one for a few minutes, but an hour or two (preferably in flight).
    Its the only way to really know if the fit will even be to your liking.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2024
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    Meadowview, VA
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    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    This is great advice and something I fully intend to do. The hard part will be finding folks that have them near me that would not mind taking me up in it. I do intend to get my certificate which will mean renting an aircraft so that seat time will be determined by what they have available. Either way this is great food for thought, thank you.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Dec 2024
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    Meadowview, VA
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    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
    Tom,

    Welcome to our group!

    I don't know that I can answer your questions specifically; however, here are some ideas you might consider.

    I believe your background regarding mechanics, motor sports and auto restoration gives you a good understanding of your ability to build a machine. Different science and different hardware, but mechanical principals don't change. Torque is still torque. Certainly many are successful particularily due to the excellent build manual Kitfox provides and support from the kit manufacturer and community. If you know SAE fastners you can learn NAS/AN hardware.

    One point which I think is important is to not rely only on what you see on the internet. You have to know how the plane works for you and know your intended mission. The best way to do that is to turn off the phone and get out there in the real world and visit someone willing to show you their aircraft. Get in it and sit in it. The best is to be able to ride/fly in a kitfox model you are interested in. That will give you an idea how it fits and how it feels. You really have to know your reasons for taking the project on and that can only occur in your own thoughts.

    There has been one person on the list who built first, took training in his kitfox after it was off phase 1. That was due to the fortune of being very good friends with a person who was a CFI and also willing to do the 40 hour test flight required before training him. That is a real unusual situation.

    The side by side cockpit is great - my wife normally occupies the co-pilot's position and handles the radio and navigation work.

    The kitfox has one of trhe better load capacitities out there. My wife and I typically load up the two of us, 27 gallons of fuel and 140-150 pounds of camping gear or other stuff - all within the 1550# weight limit and balance.

    I am pretty much a look out the window guy so just fine with a spartan and economical panel. We fly a trigear which, although it is not a "bounce of the rocks riverbed" nachine, handles grass and some unimproved strips well. It fits any airport we have ever considered including an 800 foot ultralight strip (after considerable short field practice before).

    Getting your pilot's certificate and immersing yourself in aviation activities will lead you to where you end up with what you want. Don't forget about joining an EAA chapter either. - Lots of resources there.

    Fly well
    This will be the ever growing question no doubt. As I gain experience what I think I want today with no experience will certainly change. The tough part is trying to get an idea on what to look for and pay attention to which is what I am hoping to better define by asking these questions. Thanks for your response, I do appreciate it.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Chico, CA
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    86

    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    As a new pilot I can't really give much feedback on airframes and which ones you should be looking at. I have about 40 hours in a Cub Crafters Sport Cub and now have time in the Kitfox that my dad and I built. They're two completely different aircraft and while overall I prefer the Kitfox, there are aspects to the Cub that I really enjoyed. Overall the Kitfox is much more fun and responsive.

    I got my PPL last year when I was 51 and it took me longer than I expected. I was also building the Kitfox at the same time, along with running a business and being a family man. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it. Getting your PPL is more time intensive than many people think, and building is too. If I had to do it over, I would have bought a plane to train in, gotten my PPL and then either built or bought the plane I wanted.

    Just my $0.02.
    Jason B.
    Kitfox S7 STi
    Dynon | 915is

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Dec 2024
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    Meadowview, VA
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    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Redline View Post
    As a new pilot I can't really give much feedback on airframes and which ones you should be looking at. I have about 40 hours in a Cub Crafters Sport Cub and now have time in the Kitfox that my dad and I built. They're two completely different aircraft and while overall I prefer the Kitfox, there are aspects to the Cub that I really enjoyed. Overall the Kitfox is much more fun and responsive.

    I got my PPL last year when I was 51 and it took me longer than I expected. I was also building the Kitfox at the same time, along with running a business and being a family man. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it. Getting your PPL is more time intensive than many people think, and building is too. If I had to do it over, I would have bought a plane to train in, gotten my PPL and then either built or bought the plane I wanted.

    Just my $0.02.
    This is also some good advice. I am more of a buy once cry once person however it is sounding like there are so many options to suit ones needs that buying a used one to start may be a better choice then build exactly what I want from there. This spring and summer I will be busy finding folks that can take me up in their planes to get a better feel for them all and make a better informed decision. Thanks for your reply.

  9. #9
    N981MS's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
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    Dexter, GA
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    165

    Default Re: New guy looking for advice

    If you are ever in central Georgia I be happy to give you a ride and try it on for size. I am sure most Kitfox owners will be happy to as well. If you have not checked your local EAA chapter, I would do that. If there is a Kitfox anywhere within a few 100 miles they probably know.
    Maxwell Duke

    Kitfox S6 IO-240 Built it (Flying since 2003)
    Maule M7-235C Sold it (liked it though)
    RV-10 IO-540 Bought it
    Zenith CH-750 Built with 7 friends (DAR Vic Syracuse)

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