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Thread: Kitfox V new project build

  1. #21

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Quote Originally Posted by WurlyBird View Post
    Tyler, I like the look of your fairings. I have been working on a mold to make my own. How did you make yours?

    James
    James,

    Thanks!

    I actually 3D printed 5 inch segments of the airfoil I wanted and slid them down a 3/8 tube to keep them all aligned:
    20220424_142157.jpg
    Picture9.jpg
    As you can see in the picture, I then hung the mold to make an easy way to drape the CF over. I layed down packaging tape over the mold followed by a little wax and never had a problem with the CF releasing after cure. The first layup I vacuum bagged:
    Picture10.jpg

    But I soon realized the vacuum bag was unnecessary. So what I ended up doing for a clean simple job was laying down a piece of release film, put down the CF and resin to make a sort of prepreg, and then transfer that all together over the mold and keep the release film on. The results were satisfactory.
    Kitfox V building
    "Be Quick, Be Quiet, Be on time" -Kelly Johnson

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Quote Originally Posted by alexM View Post
    That is a fancy paint scheme. I lack the talent to come up with something that nice...
    Thanks Alex!

    It took me about a 30 tries to come to that, and believe me, the first ones were not pretty.

    Would the VHB tape stay soft or does it harden up? I have personally never used it but assumed it would stay soft (but sticky) to keep the door on and sealed but still allow it to flex some.
    Kitfox V building
    "Be Quick, Be Quiet, Be on time" -Kelly Johnson

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    A little update + some ideas/questions....

    All you guys updating your Series V builds on the forums makes me feel like a slacker!
    closeout2.pngcloseout.png

    I really liked AlexM's brackets w/nutplates for holding onto the seat pan:
    seatbracket.png

    I was also planning on running a 1" conduit or PVC pipe under the seat pan to run wires through as additional security for something the seat would 'collapse' onto instead of falling on a control rod.


    This was my idea for my panel layout:
    panel1.png
    This is how it is turning out so far:
    panel2.png
    The GDU460 and switches can all be reached by my thumb with my hand "hanging" off of the top of the panel. It was recommended to me by my good friend who flies for the airlines, he advised to make sure you can easily hit switches in turbulence by having something to rest your hand on... we shall see how it works when I decide to investigate some thunderheads..

    The panels were powder coated as well as the control sticks and brackets for the headset plugs.

    Sewing the baggage compartment was one tasks that proved to be long and tedious, Looking back I almost wish I would have got the one from Kitfox... but a handheld sewing machine and a solid 5 days of measuring once, cutting thrice, and sewing twice made a product I think I could live with.
    baggae.png
    I also Decided to rivet the baggage compartment to the floorboards to make getting it all 'in and out' much easier as I have read that it can be a pain putting the bag in before the floorboards. Any thoughts as to if this was a poor decision?
    Kitfox V building
    "Be Quick, Be Quiet, Be on time" -Kelly Johnson

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Wiring has began:
    wires.png

    Like most builders, I was very nervous about the wiring however it is proving to be my most favorite part. So, if you are nervous about wiring, do not worry, with a little research and the right tools, it is rather enjoyable. I created both my wiring schematic as well as my garmin schematic on excel:
    electrical.png
    garminschematic.jpg

    I will begin the harness build for the G3X system very soon (I need to place the GTX35R first) and I am rather excited about it.

    A question I have for you guys: I want to had the trim capability to the control grips. My plans are to add a SPDT Momentary switch to the control grips which then go to a reversible DPDT relay typically found on a 12VDC winch like this:
    relay.png

    Would this be a very 'noisy' setup or has anyone tried this? it appears to be that the common method is the ray allen grips, but I am unsure if those go to a relay or if there is a built in DPDT switch in each grip. All help and opinions are appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Kitfox V building
    "Be Quick, Be Quiet, Be on time" -Kelly Johnson

  5. #25
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Quote Originally Posted by TRegli View Post
    ...a handheld sewing machine...
    Never heard of something like that. Now I'm curious; do you have a link to this product?


    I also Decided to rivet the baggage compartment to the floorboards to make getting it all 'in and out' much easier as I have read that it can be a pain putting the bag in before the floorboards. Any thoughts as to if this was a poor decision?
    I can't comment on the wisdom of that decision as I haven't installed mine yet, but I was planning to put my floorboard underneath (outside) the baggage sack, so the sack would just sit on top of it. I too would be interested to hear arguments about how best to do this.


    Like most builders, I was very nervous about the wiring however it is proving to be my most favorite part. So, if you are nervous about wiring, do not worry, with a little research and the right tools, it is rather enjoyable. I created both my wiring schematic as well as my garmin schematic on excel.
    Way to go! I wish more builders would take that attitude. It really is enjoyable work once you get the right tools. It's a good opportunity to really think about how you want your airplane to work, both normally and in emergencies.

    You must be a whiz with Excel; I can't even imagine how you would use it to draw wiring diagrams!


    A question I have for you guys: I want to had the trim capability to the control grips. My plans are to add a SPDT Momentary switch to the control grips which then go to a reversible DPDT relay typically found on a 12VDC winch like this...
    That's WAY more relay than you need to operate a Kitfox pitch trim actuator. Take a look at this diagram from Bob Nuckolls, which shows how to wire two SPDT relays to control pitch trim: AEC Trim Wiring 2.pdf

    A pair of standard automotive "cube" relays would do this job and be much smaller and lighter than the winch relay. You can source similar relays from Amazon, eBay or your local auto parts store as well. Just search for "automotive relay" and be sure to get the 5-pin variety with mounting tabs.

    If you prefer a ready-made solution and don't mind paying more, there are two options at Aircraft Spruce, here and here.


    Would this be a very 'noisy' setup or has anyone tried this? it appears to be that the common method is the ray allen grips, but I am unsure if those go to a relay or if there is a built in DPDT switch in each grip.
    No, it won't be noisy. Typically only very fast current pulses (i.e. a strobe discharge), ground loops or electronics with poorly designed switching power supplies cause noise in airplanes.

    Yes, the Ray Allen grips (or any small switch that would fit in a stick grip) will need a relay deck to drive the Kitfox trim actuator. Note that Ray Allen's relay deck can only handle 1 amp, we need something beefier in the Kitfox.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Page View Post
    Never heard of something like that. Now I'm curious; do you have a link to this product?
    I got in from Joan Fabrics, but here is the link to it on Amazon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Page View Post
    Way to go! I wish more builders would take that attitude. It really is enjoyable work once you get the right tools. It's a good opportunity to really think about how you want your airplane to work, both normally and in emergencies.

    You must be a whiz with Excel; I can't even imagine how you would use it to draw wiring diagrams!
    Thanks for the encouragement! Many of your posts about wiring and harness building have been a tremendous help. I figured using excel would allow me to pass along my markups to anyone interested and would be easy to make changes without having to learn a new program.



    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Page View Post
    That's WAY more relay than you need to operate a Kitfox pitch trim actuator. Take a look at this diagram from Bob Nuckolls, which shows how to wire two SPDT relays to control pitch trim: AEC Trim Wiring 2.pdf

    A pair of standard automotive "cube" relays would do this job and be much smaller and lighter than the winch relay. You can source similar relays from Amazon, eBay or your local auto parts store as well. Just search for "automotive relay" and be sure to get the 5-pin variety with mounting tabs.

    If you prefer a ready-made solution and don't mind paying more, there are two options at Aircraft Spruce, here and here.

    No, it won't be noisy. Typically only very fast current pulses (i.e. a strobe discharge), ground loops or electronics with poorly designed switching power supplies cause noise in airplanes.

    Yes, the Ray Allen grips (or any small switch that would fit in a stick grip) will need a relay deck to drive the Kitfox trim actuator. Note that Ray Allen's relay deck can only handle 1 amp, we need something beefier in the Kitfox.
    I kind of figured I wouldn't need such a beefy relay, but who knows maybe I would need a winch on the kitfox someday, might have to help a jeep get unstuck...

    Thank you for those links and information. I didn't even think about searching Spruce for such devices. Good to know the (more expensive) alternatives do exist. I am using Bob Nuckolls idea for the Wig Wag using an alternating flasher and it works well, so I will give the double SPDT relay a shot as well.

    I am using these grips I made on the 3D printer, so the Ray Allen grips are a no go. I will mount a SPDT rocker switch (Mom On -off- Mom On) in the top of the grip and use it to power the relays:
    grips.jpg

    Thanks again for the help!
    Kitfox V building
    "Be Quick, Be Quiet, Be on time" -Kelly Johnson

  7. #27
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    The questions about whether to mount the floor under the baggage sack or inside (as Kitfox recommends) keep coming up on a regular basis. Here is my take on it:
    I definitely recommend doing as Kitfox says and mount the floor board inside the baggage sack; then when the floor is screwed down to the mounting tabs you can firmly pull up the sides and velcro them to the upper tubes and have nice looking fairly rigid sides to your baggage compartment. Doing it the other way will give you saggy-baggy, wrinkled sides that look very poor.

    Another thing to note is that you almost NEVER need to unscrew and remove the baggage floor IF you install a round inspection cover in the belly fabric right under the elevator pushrod swing arm. For annuals there is nothing else to inspect under the floor. The swing arm can be easily inspected and lubed thru the belly inspection cover, as well as rudder cables and pitot static tubing. By just pulling off the velcro at the top edges of the baggage sack the sides, front and back can be folded down (without disturbing the floor) to gain access to flaperon pushrods, ELTs, ADHRS, etc.

    If you do ever want to remove the baggage sack floor, it is really not that hard to do. Access to the two front hold-down screws is quite easy with the seat removed. The two rear screws are more difficult, but not bad with some patience. Some folks have put nutplates on these two rear tabs to make it easier-sounds like a good idea to me.

    All these comments apply whether or not you have an extended baggage compartment.

    That's my 2 cents FWIW.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Hey,

    I have a built and flying 94 V as well, over in south east Michigan. If you get stuck or anything you want to see how it got done, let me know. Not too many of the early V kit like we have. (Although most are here).

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Quote Originally Posted by Tjhj View Post
    Hey,

    I have a built and flying 94 V as well, over in south east Michigan. If you get stuck or anything you want to see how it got done, let me know. Not too many of the early V kit like we have. (Although most are here).
    Awesome! When do you finish? What engine did you put in it? I will be over in MI for a while in a couple weeks. Would love to stop by and check it out! There does not seem to be to many differences between the early safari and the later outback besides the gross weight going increase. But you are right.. not to many early V's out and about
    Kitfox V building
    "Be Quick, Be Quiet, Be on time" -Kelly Johnson

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Kitfox V new project build

    Mine was finished this year. It has a 912UL in it. Kiev prop. I’ll send a PM with contact info.

    A couple things to think about that are different.

    1. The cargo kit doesn’t directly fit. Kitfox can’t make the baggage sack for it anymore. So figure out your baggage plan which I saw you doing. The cross bar in the baggage are sucks.

    2. If you have the sky star gear, IMO it kinda sucks. It’s not nearly as wide as the later grove gear, so it makes it feel very darty on asphalt and it’s really stiff. I can’t tell from the picture which gear you have. I just swapped to tk-1 gear and it’s a whole new airplane of happiness

    3. If you have a “true” 1400 lb kit, there are some upsides and considerations. Being the light weight spars and fuse. Some kits got the heavy spare and light fuse. Assuming it’s both light spars and fuse, you will be lighter than some later models. Mine is 730lbs (admittedly very sparse) with 8.50’s on it. Also your CG’s will be different. If you keep the short nose and Rotax you will be looking for weight up front to get full use of the baggage area. If you put the long nose on it, then it gets nose heavy. The one I have seen that had the long nose done to had 8lbs in the tail wheel to make it work. This really matters if you want a CS prop.

    Have fun!

    4. The standard elevator works fine if you keep the short nose. If you put the long mount on it, then you’ll want the bigger elevator. It looks like you have it, so might as well.

    5. get the bubble doors and do them now.

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