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Thread: Kitfox Panel Design

  1. #1

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    Default Kitfox Panel Design

    I've placed my order for a Kitfox STi, they have long lead time and I'm in on a Q2/25 delivery. Mind as well start working on the panel. Before I go too far ahead I want to get the community opinion and other ideas on my design before I go too far.
    Below are a list of the instruments I have select thus far.

    x2 GRT Sport EX. One for PFD and second for engine.
    Trig22 transponder
    Trig TY91 radio
    Airmaster Prop & Controller
    GRT Autopilot Servos

    I still have not picked an ELT or what type of switches and fuses I will be using. I've seen some panels with simple rocker switches to very fancy ones.
    Was thinking about making it IFR capable as well, but still thinking about that. Any feedback on this panel will be appreciated.
    Instrument Panel V1.00.jpg

  2. #2
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitfox Panel Design

    In my opinion it is way to early to be choosing specific instruments and devices for your panel. By the time you are ready to purchase these items, late in your build time, much of the stuff available today may be obsolete and better things will be available. General panel layout and capability yes, but specifics need to wait.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Kitfox Panel Design

    Quote Originally Posted by jiott View Post
    In my opinion it is way to early to be choosing specific instruments and devices for your panel...
    Yes completely on same page and that's what I'm trying to do, but being that I've never built an aircraft I'm trying to gather as much info as possible ahead of time. For example, what type of rocker switch do people normally use? aviation grade ones or regular panel switches. I can spend $2 or $125 for a single switch.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitfox Panel Design

    I would echo Jim's comments about waiting to order avionics (written by a guy with a pile of Dynon gear sitting in a box!) and add a few thoughts.

    - You've selected LRUs from more than one brand. Make sure they can all talk to one another so you can take advantage of all available features (i.e. can the radio accept frequency inputs from the EFIS?).

    - There's enough real estate for 10" EFIS screens but you selected 7" screens. If you're planning to make it an IFR panel, I would strongly recommend the largest screen that will fit in front of the pilot. One big advantage of an EFIS over traditional instruments is their ability to present a large volume of information in an intuitive and easily-interpreted way. Cramming all of that into a small screen partially defeats that advantage. It gets worse in split-screen presentations that shrink the flight instruments to half-screen size, and touch-screen targets are smaller and harder to accurately tap in turbulence.

    - Consider whether you plan to use a portable device like an iPad, and what EFB application you like best. Then check which EFIS ecosystem works seamlessly with your preferred EFB.

    - An IFR panel will require a certified navigator (Garmin, minimum $5k, or Avidyne, minimum $12k). You can save panel space and weight, and perhaps realize some small financial savings by combining your radio or transponder into the IFR navigator, but that's a decision best made up front; upgrading later makes it more difficult.

    - Have you flown a Kitfox? It's a very maneuverable airplane. I'm not saying a Kitfox can't be flown in IMC, but it's not the first airplane that comes to mind when I think about stable IFR platforms. There are very few airplanes that are good for every mission...
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  5. #5
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitfox Panel Design

    Quote Originally Posted by DRkidd22 View Post
    ...what type of rocker switch do people normally use? Aviation grade ones or regular panel switches. I can spend $2 or $125 for a single switch.
    We're not going to space; no need to pay NASA prices. Find a switch style that you like, that's available in all of the contact forms that you need and that's rated for the voltage/current they'll be tasked to switch. Buy them from a reputable dealer so you're getting genuine parts. They'll probably far outlast your ownership of the plane.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Kitfox Panel Design

    Here's a couple of thoughts based on my recent experience building my SS7 panel:

    1) An IFR-capable panel is quite a bit more complex and expensive. Make sure you really need something like that. I consider the Kitfox a fun/hobby plane
    and it's probably not that often you'll be flying it IFR. If you're considering it as a safety item, a 2-axis autopilot can help if you get stuck in IFR. I chose
    the Garmin suite and the autopilot controller has an "Oh-SH#$%" button for those unfortunate situations.

    2) Make sure there is enough room between instruments, switches, etc. Some panel-mounted devices are larger in the back than the part visible in the front.
    Most component manufacturers provide CAD drawings of the complete unit that you can import into a CAD program to see how everything fits together.

    3) Consider creating foam art-board mockups of each component in your system to see how it fits.

    4) I chose to use toggle switches. I bought some fancy ones that have LED lights on them. Unfortunately the LEDs need power when the switch is activated
    and many times a switch connects a signal to ground not power so you'll need a special circuit to make that work. I determined it was more complex than
    it was worth and just used non-lighted toggle switches.

    5) KISS. Keep it simple. The more complex it is the more chances there are for failure. I had all these ideas about cool things I could design/add being an electrical
    engineer but as I got into it I realized that I did not want to bet my life on some fancy circuit just to light up an LED.

    6) Make sure you consider any warning lamps you might want. Many items are displayed on your MFD depending on brand but I chose the following additional lights:
    Starter Active, Start Power Active, Low Fuel, Main Battery Fail, Backup Battery Fail.

    5) Be sure to leave enough room for panel labels.

    6) Order the toggle switches in the sequence you would normally use them.

    7) Carefully plan what would happen in an emergency like alternator failure to make sure you can turn off enough equipment to allow your battery to keep the
    engine running for enough time to get out of the mess. Of course this depends on the engine as some engines don't need external power to operate. I am
    using the 915 which draws 8 amps when running on external power so my system is designed to run on battery power alone for at least 1 hour.

    Good Luck!

    Victor
    Building SS7
    915iS
    Garmin G3x

  7. #7
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitfox Panel Design

    Regarding IFR panel for safety; I have thought a lot about this after having to divert 50 miles because I got stuck over a solid overcast and couldn't land at home. Fortunately I had enough fuel and it had a good outcome. But what if I was short on fuel or the engine was out? I started studying my Dynon Skyview panel and learned that it has all the capability for RNAV/VNAV navigation in IMC conditions, however it is not legal to use that way by itself. Who cares! If I need to declare an emergency and land IFR it can easily do it. Therefore I have studied and practiced many RNAV landings (a safety pilot sure helps) into many airports. It is not only fun to do, but is giving me much greater confidence in case of an emergency IMC event. I'm sure most all of the major EFIS brands have the same capability.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Kitfox Panel Design

    Thanks for all the feedback, everything is really helpful.
    -The radio can indeed accept (according to the compatible product list and manual) inputs from the EFIS, one of the reasons why I selected it.
    -I decided to go with smaller screens to save on cost, but will revisit later when I'm much closer to delivery date.
    -Which certified navigators are recommended for IFR? I'm half way through my IFR rating and will provably will be adding such capability at build time rather than later.
    -I have not flow a Kitfox yet, but will sign up for some training soon.

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