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Thread: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

  1. #1

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    Default In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    It looks like scrappy is on the edge of awesomeness with an in-flight adjustable cord wing.


    Several years ago a team in Brazil built an adjustable camber wing seeking the same outcome, lower lows and higher highs. Simple concept, worked with REM and a full spar inflatable bladders. Their challenge was not STOL, it was getting rotation and landing V’s lower.


    An inflight adjustable cord is a super fun concept. Looking forward to see the progress. Interested to see if Patey copies the Brazil adjustable in flight wing design or comes out with something new.

    At the end of the day, the future winners of these stol things will be dominated by hi-torq high-burst E-Drivers .

  2. #2
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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    "Never been done before" quite the claim, so I am interested to see what he tries!
    Dustin Dickerson

    Building 7ss STI x 2
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  3. #3
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
    ...

    At the end of the day, the future winners of these stol things will be dominated by hi-torq high-burst E-Drivers .
    Hard to see how they could do much better than Steve Henry does right now.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    Agreed! Power to weight, especially when the weight is low.
    Last edited by Shadowrider; 03-06-2021 at 08:27 PM.
    Dustin Dickerson

    Building 7ss STI x 2
    Oratex
    29" shock monster
    EP912STI 155hp
    Garmin
    N33TF......FLYING!
    N53TF......FLYING!

  5. #5

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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    For winning open stol comps I think Electric drives are the future on the podium.


    There are many too many benefits to ignore. Yea, the battery is heavy but you only need a 3 minute burst, and you can carry the motor around in a kids backpack. The new solid state power blocks are a game changer...
    1 - Super lightweight, less mass means faster stopping with smaller brakes.
    2 - Instant off prop - with E-Power you can shut it off on short final and use the prop as drag instead of static thrust at gas idle.
    3 - Instant on - Once stopped, hit the throttle for turn around and enjoy catapult like instant full RPM flash bang plaid thrust.


    The only person I would be worried about on stol day is Steve Henry in 44 with an E-Drive.


    It is going to fun to watch this play out.


    Observations...
    1 - You are not going to beat Steve much if any on take off.
    2 - It will also be tough to beat Steve landing. This means the straightaway is where the delta D is had, and all that built up speed will be in play but by default so will mass and momentum - Patey has ALOT of mass hanging up front (are they allowing reverse pitch in the rules - if so my bet is still on lightweight E-Drives,) but reverse thrust on scrappy could present a big problem for 44, but Patey will still have some roll out. Patey may have a trick up his sleeve with near zero ground speed landing, but the big Berringers indicate ground roll. Maybe nascar air drag hinged doors are hiding.


    With Patey ground support being unlimited, I am surprised he did not consider a cruise wing for cross country and then have a completion wing for Reno ferried with trailer.


    The flight adjustable high lift wing will get him going slow, but that’s a lot of mass to slow down in just seconds. A lot of changing air dynamics are in play on that wing, it will take time to deploy when it is needed and it will take time for the new shape to start flowing and be fully acted upon and then you land and need to flash dump the lift (retract) and get stopped.


    The longer the distance to LZ the greater benefit higher speed will play. Keep it close and you keep it pure - $75K beating $1 million rigs. Every inch you add to the airborne run the more the winners will be defined by money vrs skill.


    On another note, I have been watching the Burt Rutan interviews on YouTube. Wow, that guy is so passionate. I am blown away at how many airplanes he built and the endless innovation he brought to the entire aviation community including N328K and voyager. In one of the interviews he stated how very disappointed he was with stagnation in the industry - he basically called out other kit builders for not improving their designs each year.


    I wonder what the performance specs would look like with a Rutan Bushy. I wonder about what the KF8 will look like.


    Grab your popcorn, it is going to be a very fun show.


    A final note... a motor is electric, an engine is fuel powered.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Rodney's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    I just hope he is careful. I worry if he is pushing it too far. He's come awfully close several times to buying the farm.
    He is a brilliant individual, no doubt.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
    ...reverse thrust on scrappy could present a big problem for 44, but Patey will still have some roll out.
    No reverse as long as he's using that enormous paddle-blade airboat prop. It wouldn't surprise me to see him hire Hamilton-Standard or MT to build a custom reversible prop governor, but he's put so much effort into precise CG location that I don't think he'd be willing to suffer that much weight that far forward. If there's one thing predictable about Mike's builds, it's the unpredictability.

    Speaking of that airboat prop, I'll be very interested to see what kind of performance he gets from it. I'm not very familiar with airboats, but I can't believe they can reach speeds anywhere near what Scrappy could produce. I'm sure his takeoffs will be eye watering, but I'll bet his cruise speeds won't be very impressive given the horsepower involved. Says the guy with zero engineering background...
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
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  8. #8

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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    As stated previously Steve Henry is going to be very tough to beat mainly because he leaves very little meat on the bone, i.e. his distances are so short that there is not much room to beat him. Scrappy is gonna be very heavy, especially compared to YeeHaw.

    Mike’s builds are fun to watch, but Steve is out practicing while Mike is building.

    But it will be fun to watch Scrappy fly

  9. #9
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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    I agree with Jay. Only way I see to beat Steve is more HP “AND” less weight. I don’t see electric as a viable option right now. Weight of batteries is to heavy. Steve’s power to weight is unmatched. Plus 400hp out of a apex is not uncommon, but I guess it’s not needed because no one can touch his takeoffs. Steve can already takeoff brakes locked, so added torque of a electric is not needed IMO. You would just be adding weight. Only contenders I see as a worthy opponent is Jason Busat who is putting the same engine in. Of course I bet Jason is going to really push the engine. Jason will have more HP but will have more weight. Should be good match. Of course we are talking STOl and not stol drags. Stol drags is a different story and what they are going for I bet.
    Last edited by Shadowrider; 03-08-2021 at 07:29 AM.
    Dustin Dickerson

    Building 7ss STI x 2
    Oratex
    29" shock monster
    EP912STI 155hp
    Garmin
    N33TF......FLYING!
    N53TF......FLYING!

  10. #10
    Senior Member 109JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Flight adjustable wing on Scrappy

    He isn't talking about it in terms of "beating" anybody in competitions, but rather to be able to get into the backcountry spots he wants to and to be able to cruise at a better clip.
    John Brannen
    Morris, IL
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    Kitfox IV 1050 - Rotax 582 (sold)
    Kitfox IV 1200 Speedster - Rotax 912 UL (project)
    Piper Twin Comanche (Sold)
    Glasair 1 FT (Waiting to start)

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