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Thread: If you need insurance...

  1. #1
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default If you need insurance...

    As some of you know, I had an unfortunate incident in my plane last year that resulted in an insurance claim. My insurance carrier non-renewed me, and I contacted every agent I could, and nobody could find a carrier that would cover me. Avemco would not either. A couple friends of mine recently insured their new plane and told me to contact Mike Travers and Travers at Associates Aviation Insurance. As a last resort, I did. I begged and pleaded and offered my first born if he could get me a quote. He took some time to ask a bunch of questions, which none of the other agents did. Then he told me that he couldn't find a carrier either. My insurance expired yesterday, and I've been kind of torn over how I should approach flying for the next couple years. Losing my plane would be emotionally crushing, but self-insuring against liability could be financially devastating. I was also possibly facing having to sell my hangar because the county requires liability insurance and nobody would even quote me a premises-only liability policy.

    Then, today Mike informed me that he found me a quote, and the rate is actually very reasonable given my recent loss. ($1934) So if anyone is looking for insurance, especially if you're in a difficult spot, give Travers and Associates a call. They earned a customer for life and a zealous advocate today. Please also tell him who referred you and why. He deserves to know how much this level of service means to his clients.
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

  2. #2
    Senior Member Delta Whisky's Avatar
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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    Brian - thanks for this post. I'm going to bet that a lot of folks will benefit around renewal time; so might Mr. Travers.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    How much liability did the insurance company pay out for your incident? I'm asking because the fat tire crowd gravitates away from population centers and tend to only bang up their planes and some dirt/rocks.

    If the answer is $0.00 then getting liability shouldn't be that hard. Hull insurance is what most of your insurance bill is, and if they paid out a chunk for that it might explain why you were - what's the expression? Oh yes: invited to shop elsewhere for coverage.

    I know there are varying opinions but for a plane I build myself and bang up myself, I would probably also repair it myself and not call the insurance company.

    When I first started flying warbirds I got a quote and a healthy dose of sticker shock. Six years of premiums would equal the cost of the plane, so I stuck with liability coverage only. I figure if I went down I would likely die in a 120 gallon 100LL fireball so getting square with the hull coverage wouldn't be of much concern.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  4. #4

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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    I will definitely call them up. I have to renew mine right now and AIG is just trying to rip me off. They made a killing off of me last year.

  5. #5
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    Quote Originally Posted by alexM View Post
    How much liability did the insurance company pay out for your incident?

    If the answer is $0.00 then getting liability shouldn't be that hard.
    They paid zero in liability, but let me tell you, nothing makes sense about the industry right now. None of the underwriters would even quote a liability-only policy for the plane - not even while it's not in motion. They wouldn't even quote a liability policy for my hangar. None of this makes any sense. The agents said right now ANY loss history makes you completely untouchable for two years. The only motivation I can think of for why this is the case is that the carriers want to make it as painful as possible to make a claim in order to discourage pilots from making claims for covered losses. I'm not suggesting there should be no consequence. It would make sense to require additional training, charge higher premiums, and/or to put more specific operational restrictions in place. Completely shutting pilots out who have made one claim in 25 years is purely punitive. Fortunately, Travers found a carrier willing to be reasonable.

    I would keep this in mind when shopping. Knowing that the potential consequence of a claim is to be uninsurable for two years makes any discussion of deductibles meaningless. They will all by lower than the point at which it's worth it to make a claim.
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

  6. #6

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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    I wonder how they would treat you if the accident is not your fault.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    Thanks Brian for the heads up. Glad you were able to get re-insured. Not a good position to be in for sure.

    Clark

  8. #8
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    Quote Originally Posted by AMK53 View Post
    I wonder how they would treat you if the accident is not your fault.
    While I was not being reckless per se, my incident was the result of my failure to correctly evaluate the condition of the landing surface. The contributing factors are many, and that's a whole discussion unto itself. That said, bear in mind that this was not a reportable incident, and no official determination of fault or cause was ever made. The only information the underwriters had was that there was loss due to a landing incident, and the amount of the loss. It's reasonable to infer that small claims on landing are almost universally pilot error, but nobody asked probing questions to try to determine the exact circumstances or assign fault.

    I have heard, purely anecdotally, that if the claim is very clearly due to mechanical failure, you are not likely be non-renewed by your carrier. Avemco told me that if my policy had been with them, they probably would not have non-renewed my policy over a claim of this size, but they would not quote me on a new policy.
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

  9. #9
    Senior Member 109JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    Quote Originally Posted by aviator79 View Post
    That said, bear in mind that this was not a reportable incident,
    I remember seeing your thread about the accident. Technically it was reportable because of the bent wing strut. The other damage during recovery is not included in the assessment, but the bent wing strut was due to the nose over and would put it over the edge for "substantial damage"
    John Brannen
    Morris, IL
    Sonerai IIL (Single Seat)
    Kitfox 3/4 1050 - Rotax 582 (Back Flying and sold)
    Kitfox IV 1050 - Rotax 582 (sold)
    Kitfox IV 1200 Speedster - Rotax 912 UL (project)
    Piper Twin Comanche (Sold)
    Glasair 1 FT (Waiting to start)

  10. #10

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    Default Re: If you need insurance...

    I have been an aviation insurance agent for the past 11 years. The industry is changing in the following ways. 1. at least 4 insurers have quit the GA business in the last 24 months. 2. Premiums that were in a decline have started to rise significantly due to losses and less competition. 3. Current carriers are reducing their exposure to unique aircraft types. 4. Carriers are favoring annual training exposures versus the "BFR." 5. Some underwriters are surcharging Basic Med pilots. 6. Some underwriters are not insuring Basic Med pilots age 70 or older. 6. Some underwriters have a minimum premium of $3k. 7. One carrier has a minimum age of 25 yrs.

    Feel free to PM or call if you have any questions.

    GT
    N1461F Kitfox IV (in the 40hr test flight stage)
    ATP CFI CFII MEI SEL SES MEL MES FEJ

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