Oratex over polyfiber

[Freedom2]

Want ask if someone out there has experience with BOTH Oratex and Polyfiber in regards to the applying process from start to finish?? Me personally have only experience with polyfiber and sometimes we humans tend to go with what we are familiar with. I have done soooo much reading of everyones builds using Oratex and the process seems tricky but of course faster and a simpler process. This is why I ask this question, does Oratex extra costs, weight savings and everything else it offers outweigh what polyfiber has to offer??? Any comments is MUCHLY appreciated!

Freedom2

[alexM]

While I consider Polyfiber to be the benchmark by which all other covering systems can be measured, my project came with a big roll of Oratex. A plane expertly covered in the traditional systems is a thing of beauty, and if you're used to looking at museum quality planes the Oratex won't look pretty (up close anyway).

But it's tough material and it is hands down the lightest covering system out there, with a lot less variation from plane to plane (doesn't depend on how many coats of goo the user applies).

Regarding the cost of Oratex, I don't need to buy a spray booth, HVLP setup, respirator, Tyvek suits, etc. I don't even have the space to set up one of those inflatable spray booths, so I would need to rent space somewhere to do it. I think if you're starting from ground zero I don't know that it is more expensive.

Beyond the appearance up close (like reading glasses distance), the detractors of Oratex seem to have experience with the other covering systems and are disappointed when the same techniques don't work.

[tracstarr]

Just want to add a bit extra here. I've only used Oratex so can't compare. That said, Oratex is now coming out with a new paintable product. It's a base layer oratex material with the same easy to apply methods but is designed to be painted. I don't know much more though.

I agree though that currently if you want that "show room floor" perfect look, Oratex won't give you that per say (without a lot of additional pre cover work) - and it's not going to be the same. But, if you want simplicity and don't want to deal with chemicals, painting, renting or making a booth or care too much about that up close perfect paint job - then it's the way to go IMO. But I only have experience watching others with poly.

[buckchop]

I have done both Oratex and Poly systems, last time i did Poly i swore id never do it again, damm stink i tell u. In my opinion the Oratex is better, lighter, stronger, faster, and i got to do a test like not many other would get to do, a real teary eye test, Hahahahaaa, and im doing the Oratex 6000 again as i write on the ‘47 pa12. Also i took the 3 day Oratex class (along with about 12-15 others i invited to my shop) that they had offered me to get people interested in Oratex in Fairbanks my shop in Ester.
Soooo i guess if u have some questions fire them away, ill answer best i can, also Better Aircraft Fabric has their own application book with better hints and info from real world installers. Side note i had never done a complete fabric job prior to the Oratex class, but have done lot now in both systems, and also had some experience with Stewards water born also, that stuff is a waste of time and money there.
Also the two systems r NOT the same in application heat ranges, anchoring, wrapping, sealing, or the tools u use. That is where some people run into trouble, and have problems with the fabric down the road, overheating the fabric and glue is easy to do, and is the worst thing u could do, it looks ok, pulls ok, but WILL come off, same as Poly will, the computerized heat gun and iron r ur best friend, (hell u can solder copper tube with the heat gun the instructions say.
The Oratex salesman is not tryin to sell more items, their heatgun, and iron is well worth the purchase to have.

[Freedom2]

WoW!!!! I didn't realize at the time of posting this thread it would drum up some pretty good response! Thx everyone for their two bits worth and some really good points made by everyone!! The last comment by 4Hummer made go back into memory lane(1994) the last time I did the poly fiber system and yes it is a toxic and sticky process that no doubt affects the human body in one way or the other. Also when i did the poly fiber I remember the most stupid mistake I made. I chose ( lack of knowledge) after doing a pretty good job up to the poly spray, not to use a paint booth and instead pick a day that was good conditions weather wise. WRONG!! My point is all the work messed up by a terrible paint job. So I'm definitely seeing the benefits of Oratex and yes Alexm, I do wonder if the end cost is that much more not to mention the time it saves! Oh forgot, our time is not worth anything!haha. Love that idea of putting a sample piece of Oratex out in the extremes of mother nature and put it to the test. Like you said, 6 years is probably equivalent to at least 20 years of a real life scenario of a typical kitfox! Well, back to the books and you tube for more education on a new cover system for me. Wished I was near Fairbanks for that course!

Freedom2

[alexM]

I've seen multiple references to the Better Fabric book and the training class but I've been all over their website and don't see either one mentioned. I would buy that book in a heartbeat and jump at the chance for the 3 day course before I start covering.

I would appreciate any links or direction for those resources.

Regarding the 20-30 year life span of the conventional polyester fabric systems (like Polyfiber): As an owner of a '65 Citabria last covered in '87 I'm a strong believer in keeping fabric planes in a hangar. I can embrace the fact that the fabric can make it 30 years outside (many A&Ps will tell you that punch testing polyester fabric isn't a valid test since it will always pass).

But never mind the UV damage - It's the water ingress that bothers me. "Traditional" rag and tube planes tend to have lots of places for water to get in. Around the fuel fillers, tail access covers, penetrations for antennas and lights, boot cowl, windshield. The wing joint seems like an afterthought hastily covered with ill fitting sheet metal. For the Kitfox you can add the turtle deck hinge and that folding wing joint.

Water always follows Civil Engineering Rule #1 (s*** goes down hill) so a plane left parked outside will have standing water attacking the lower fuselage longerons, pooling around wood pieces, creeping into all those fastener joints where we have dissimilar metals.

Sure my Citabria has lots of grommets but that really just assures that the plane doesn't form a 20 gallon udder after a heavy storm. I'm not afraid to fly my plane in the rain or park it outside for a day or two while I'm on a XC trip but leaving it tied down outside makes me cringe.

[patrick.hvac]

I've seen multiple references to the Better Fabric book and the training class but I've been all over their website and don't see either one mentioned. I would buy that book in a heartbeat and jump at the chance for the 3 day course before I start covering.

I would appreciate any links or direction for those resources.

I have an Oratex application manual that details instructions for installation. Not sure if that's what you're looking for? It's from Lanitz (the Parent of Oratex) not BAF though. It can be found here: https://www.lanitz-aviation.com/downloads
Hope that helps.

[jiott]

I have no experience at all with Oratex but I have one serious doubt about it that only time (about 20 years) will answer. That is the UV protection. The Polyfiber system has you put on 3 cross coats (that's 6 coats) of the UV protecting silver Polyspray until no light shows thru with a 60 watt bulb on the other side to give the all-important protection against UV rotting the fabric. Oratex claims built-in UV protection, but we all know that a finished plane covered with Oratex show light thru it similar to the old tissue and balsa models I made as a kid (slight exaggeration here). How can their "built-in" UV protection be much good with that much light transmissibility? Polyfiber is well proven for about 20 year+ life. Oratex hasn't proved much beyond a few years, so in my opinion the jury will still be out for quite a few years to come. FWIW

[jrevens]

I have no experience at all with Oratex but I have one serious doubt about it that only time (about 20 years) will answer. That is the UV protection. The Polyfiber system has you put on 3 cross coats (that's 6 coats) of the UV protecting silver Polyspray until no light shows thru with a 60 watt bulb on the other side to give the all-important protection against UV rotting the fabric. Oratex claims built-in UV protection, but we all know that a finished plane covered with Oratex show light thru it similar to the old tissue and balsa models I made as a kid (slight exaggeration here). How can their "built-in" UV protection be much good with that much light transmissibility? Polyfiber is well proven for about 20 year+ life. Oratex hasn't proved much beyond a few years, so in my opinion the jury will still be out for quite a few years to come. FWIW

Just a few quick quick thoughts about that, Jim... I don't know how much this actually means to anyone worrying about being able to see light through Oratex and the UV "issue", but consider if you will that you can see pretty darn well through sunglasses, many of which filter 100% of UV -A&B. There are also colorless liquid protectants like 303 that block UV rays quite effectively.

I've had test strips of my white Oratex 6000 hanging outside, directly facing South, at an elevation of 5700 ' msl, 24 hrs. a day, 365 days a year for 6 years now. They've been exposed to rain, snow and more days of high-intensity sunshine than experienced by most other parts of the U.S. They have slightly discolored, possibly somewhat from air-pollution (this is Denver) but seem to be a strong as new... at least I can't tear them. I figure that this kind of exposure is probably at least equal to 20 or more years of a normal airplane's life, especially if it is hangared (as most of our Kitfoxes are).

[Danzer1]

I have no experience at all with Oratex but I have one serious doubt about it that only time (about 20 years) will answer. That is the UV protection. The Polyfiber system has you put on 3 cross coats (that's 6 coats) of the UV protecting silver Polyspray until no light shows thru with a 60 watt bulb on the other side to give the all-important protection against UV rotting the fabric. Oratex claims built-in UV protection, but we all know that a finished plane covered with Oratex show light thru it similar to the old tissue and balsa models I made as a kid (slight exaggeration here). How can their "built-in" UV protection be much good with that much light transmissibility? Polyfiber is well proven for about 20 year+ life. Oratex hasn't proved much beyond a few years, so in my opinion the jury will still be out for quite a few years to come. FWIW

Oratex has been used in Europe since 2002 or 2003 - quite a few more than "a few years". I have not heard of any UV protection complaints or issues to date.

Thought to ponder: Most sunglasses these days have UVA and B protection of 99.9 to 100% and I can see through them pretty well (light transmissibility), much easier than I can through Oratex! Hmmm - think about it.

Also not seen mentioned here yet - Oratex can be peeled back if repairs or access are necessary and re-applied in lieu of full replacement.

If we all waited 20+ years for something to be "proven", innovation and progress would be stifled by around I'd say.....20+ years!

I think the question really comes down to: Do you like the look of unpainted Oratex (if you're going to paint it, you're not really saving anything) or are you comfortable doing lots of painting and will be satisfied with those results? Either will serve the utilitarian purpose.