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Thread: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    After stripping my right wing of fabric today, I took a look at ribs 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9 to see that I had for flaperon attach points. Here's what they look like:

    Trailing Edge Odd Rib.jpg

    Has anyone taken an S5 wing in this condition and converted it to use the S7 flaperon brackets? It looks like I could still install p/n 12041.101 and .102 (ball note 1 in the image below), and I'd simply end up with a double thickness of aluminum below the cap strips. I might need longer rivets to attach the brackets after covering, but otherwise I don't see a problem. Is there something else that I'm not thinking about?

    S7 Rib Reinforcement.jpg
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    Eric

    I certainly hope there's not a problem with it because I went to the new style hinges after trying to deal with the old style "V" hinges. I agree you will need longer rivets.

    Rick
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    Quote Originally Posted by bumsteer View Post
    Eric

    I certainly hope there's not a problem with it because I went to the new style hinges after trying to deal with the old style "V" hinges. I agree you will need longer rivets.

    Rick
    Rick,
    So you have early style doublers in there and the new style brackets? Interesting.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

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    Senior Member jmodguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    You may be able to remove the old reinforcements with careful application of a heat gun.
    Jeff
    KF 5
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    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    With Hysol, perhaps so, but the planes of this era were put together with 3M Scotchweld, which seems to be impervious to heat.

    I tried to remove the reducer fitting from the end of a dented elevator push-pull tube by drilling out the rivets then applying a heat gun. I ended up with the gun at max blast, and despite much smoking and enough force with pliers to score the aluminum, it wouldn't come out. I scrapped it and ordered new fittings.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    Thought about removing them, but could see broken capstrips in my future and since the new style fit just fine, decided to put them on as is.

    Rick

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    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    Awesome; thanks for the info, Rick! I'll get the new parts ordered and pray they don't take six months to arrive.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Page View Post
    With Hysol, perhaps so, but the planes of this era were put together with 3M Scotchweld, which seems to be impervious to heat.

    I tried to remove the reducer fitting from the end of a dented elevator push-pull tube by drilling out the rivets then applying a heat gun. I ended up with the gun at max blast, and despite much smoking and enough force with pliers to score the aluminum, it wouldn't come out. I scrapped it and ordered new fittings.
    I can vouch that the 3M product of old seems to be impervious to heat. As a guy with a minor in composites I know that all thermoset plastics (two part things you mix together and generate heat as they kick off, as opposed to thermoform plastics which you melt and then can re-melt the scraps) have a temperature called Glass Transition phase (Tg) where once you heat the cured material above the Tg value they become rubbery and they don't recover when they cool off.

    I've had no issue heating up and removing the EA 9460 we use now but just like Eric points out, I tried removing the 3M product from my wing ribs and I will burn the wood long before the old glue gives up.

    If you can get the series 7 style brackets to work and not disturb the old aluminum doublers then I would say it's a win.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  9. #9
    Senior Member TJay's Avatar
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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    Since there is only 2 rather than 4 did they step up to Stainless steel or are they still Aluminum? Just wondering
    TJay Larsen

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    Default Re: S7 Flaperon Brackets On My S5 Wings?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    Since there is only 2 rather than 4 did they step up to Stainless steel or are they still Aluminum? Just wondering
    Internally
    The series 7 pieces are 1/16" aluminum. The series 5 just had the thin strips bonded to the cap strips only. They were more of a backing plate to keep the rivets from pulling through the wood cap strip and don't distribute load into the ribs very well. The new style transfers load to the shear web which is much stronger.

    Externally
    Yes, the pieces are steel (cad plated, not stainless). Unconfirmed hearsay from Paul at S&R is that the series 7 design is strong enough that they could have raised the upper flap speed limit but there isn't much incentive to do so. The S7 STI at S&R actually had very nice machine aluminum external pieces. They looked really nice but I don't know that those are available to us mere mortals.

    I'm actually doing the installation of my internal doublers today and hoping to fit up my flaperons in the next day or two. I have both sets of parts for series 5 and 7. Installation of the series 7 parts will be MUCH easier.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

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