Kitfox Aircraft Stick and Rudder Stein Air Grove Aircraft TCW Technologies Dynon Avionics AeroLED MGL Avionics Leading Edge Airfoils Desser EarthX Batteries Garmin G3X Touch
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Control cable?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Toledo, WA
    Posts
    863

    Default Control cable?

    I had to cut the cables out of my fuselage during disassembly, so it's in many pieces and needs to be replaced. I also cut off and tossed all of the Nicopress sleeves, and I can't remember how many there were. I'm preparing an Aircraft Spruce order and could use the new cable and sleeves to get me over the $350 hump for free shipping.

    Aircraft Spruce says this about Nicopress sleeves: "Plain copper and zinc coated sleeves are used with galvanized cable, and tin coated sleeves are to be used with stainless steel cable." I'm certain the cables I removed were fastened with plain copper sleeves, but the cable appears to be stainless.


    So, five questions...

    1. Do we use 1/8" 7x19 cable?

    2. Is the cable galvanized or stainless?

    3. What length of cable ships with the kits?

    4. Do we use plain copper, zinc coated or tin coated Nicopress sleeves?

    5. How many sleeves ship with the kits?

    Thanks!
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cherrybark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Near Tyler, TX
    Posts
    509

    Default Re: Control cable?

    Wish I could help with answers to your specific questions but I'll offer that Kitfox will sell the components to assemble the control cable and they will always be the correct parts.

    Don't forget the round "thimbles" for the cable ends.
    Carl Strange
    Flying
    SS7, 912iS, Oratex, G3X

  3. #3
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Toledo, WA
    Posts
    863

    Default Re: Control cable?

    Yeah, I'm sure Kitfox would sell me the parts, but I need to get another ~$50 into my Aircraft Spruce cart at the moment. I'll be ordering $thousands from Kitfox before my plane flies...

    I did keep the round thimbles.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  4. #4
    patrick.hvac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Control cable?

    Cable - 1/8x7x19 stainless 59ft.
    Sleeves - MS51844-24 1/8 zinc qty 8.



    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Page View Post
    I had to cut the cables out of my fuselage during disassembly, so it's in many pieces and needs to be replaced. I also cut off and tossed all of the Nicopress sleeves, and I can't remember how many there were. I'm preparing an Aircraft Spruce order and could use the new cable and sleeves to get me over the $350 hump for free shipping.

    Aircraft Spruce says this about Nicopress sleeves: "Plain copper and zinc coated sleeves are used with galvanized cable, and tin coated sleeves are to be used with stainless steel cable." I'm certain the cables I removed were fastened with plain copper sleeves, but the cable appears to be stainless.


    So, five questions...

    1. Do we use 1/8" 7x19 cable?

    2. Is the cable galvanized or stainless?

    3. What length of cable ships with the kits?

    4. Do we use plain copper, zinc coated or tin coated Nicopress sleeves?

    5. How many sleeves ship with the kits?

    Thanks!
    🇨🇦CANADA
    Flying | SS7 | G3X | Edge 912

  5. #5
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Toledo, WA
    Posts
    863

    Default Re: Control cable?

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick.hvac View Post
    Cable - 1/8x7x19 stainless 59ft.
    Sleeves - MS51844-24 1/8 zinc qty 8.
    Thank you, Patrick. Much appreciated.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  6. #6
    Agfoxflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Woodstock, Georgia
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Control cable?

    When I was building my 5 Skystar put out a directive that you needed to replace the copper nico press sleeves with zinc. Apparently copper and stainless don't play well together. I had already installed cables with kit supplied nicos. So I stripped out everything and replaced with zinc and 1/8 stainless cable.
    David E.
    Woodstock, Georgia
    N97DE S5 TD Flying

    N97KE RV-9A Sold
    N96KE RV10 Sold
    Rans S21 Helping Brother Build (Selling)
    Vans RV-14A (On Order)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Toledo, WA
    Posts
    863

    Default Re: Control cable?

    I asked this same question of Aircraft Spruce, after pointing out that one of their previous answers contradicted the information in their product description. This was their reply:

    I got with our supplier on this and they got back to me with, "MS51844 is specific on copper and zinc plated for carbon steel cable, and tin plated or stainless steel for stainless cable."
    They edited down my question and their answer quite a bit when they added it to their product page, and they still haven't deleted the contradictory Q&A, but the text above was their emailed reply to me.

    AC 43.13-1B only specifies (in a note below Table 7-6) the use of "plated" sleeves with stainless steel cables, and Tony Bingelis' books are silent on the question. So, it seems the sleeve supplier's guidance via Aircraft Spruce, and the actual Mil Spec, are as definitive an answer as we're going to get.

    Tin-coated cost $0.04/ea more than zinc-coated for 1/8" sleeves. Pretty easy decision to make.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Eric Page; 09-18-2020 at 09:10 AM.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Bryan, Texas
    Posts
    558

    Default Re: Control cable?

    This is an interesting and frustrating issue. I just swagged all the cables on my kit and after fixing my mistake on the location where the copilots and pilots pedals connect with swages. I now realize that I have to start all over and replace all the swages since I missed the service bulletin and used all copper.

    So the service bulletin says use zinc, but the aircraft spruce says to use tin plated?

    I have some zinc ones and trying to figure out if it's worth the trouble of ordering tin plated especially since the SB says to use zinc.

    Anyone know what kitfox provides in the current kits?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Toledo, WA
    Posts
    863

    Default Re: Control cable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrytex View Post
    Anyone know what kitfox provides in the current kits?
    According to Patrick, in post #4 above, Kitfox supplies zinc-coated sleeves. I don't know if they haven't seen MS51844, or if they have a different source for their sleeves that recommends using zinc-coated with stainless. It's still a bit of a quandry.

    I'm waiting for answers to a list of questions I posed to Kitfox, along with a quote for many of the parts I need. I'll follow up on this issue with them when I get their reply. Stay tuned.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Control cable?

    I have pretty much held my breath on this issue mostly because it is not the biggest deal ever in the grand scheme of things; however, I am not convinced of the necessity of the little footnote at all and I am certainly not convinced that there is one and only one correct answer (most things are not).

    First off - although AC 43.13-1B is a pretty darn good source of information for technical items on aircraft that we all rely on (and should rely on) for guidance; however, it is an advisory circular, meaning policy, not law or rule; and, nobody reads the preamble because they go immediately to the section covering the particular item of interest. The AC itself provides for alternate acceptable methods.

    Right up front, every AC contains language similar to : "The procedures in this AC are an acceptable means, but not the only acceptable means........ The information in this AC is applicable to aircraft for which the manufacturer has not published .......... control information. Where the airframe or engine manufacturer has published a recommended ...... inspection schedule and treatment program, the applicable program must take precedence over the recommendation of this AC."

    In the book titled "how things got this way" there may be a sub title covering how the footnote in the AC came to be. If you look at the date of the Kitfox service bulletin; and, look into the history of the date (1998) when the foot note was included in the AC, they coincide. I suspect that when the old skystar company noticed the change, it was easier issuing a service bulletin rather than challenging the FAA in the first place.

    There are several reasons why I am convinced the FAA should revisit the inclusion of the foot note.

    1) The confusion people have already identified. You can get many different answers on the issue depending on where you look.

    2) Industry operatives not under the umbrella of the FAA, such as the Specialty Steel Industry of America, the British stainless steel association and many nautical interests would not come to the same conclusion as the footnote.

    3) Nothing can prevent corrosion, but it can be delayed/mitigated. The cable ends include several different metals in contact with the cable - not just SS vs copper - galvanic corrosion requires three things to occur - dissimilar metals, direct metal to metal contact and an electrolyte - to hold off corrosion at least one of the three things needs to be out of the equation. Has anyone determined exactly what happens when a plated sleeve is compressed over a cable? Does the plating maintain separation or do we now have a tri-metal situation after it is all squeezed together and the plating scrunched up? Would a lubricant exclude an electrolyte better than choice of sleeve materials? Why on earth do we put heat shrink tubing over the parts? - other than it looks nice but it can seal in moisture?

    4) The NTSB files have numerous cases where cable failure has been caused by just about everything other than alleged material mismatches with cables and sleeves - and significant numbers of failures are caused by failure to compress the joint properly so the cable slips out.

    Anyone who looks into the issues of galvanic corrosion in the greater world of engineering and science might see a reason that the footnote should be revisited - not to legalize what might be done out in the confusing world - but to genuinely make sure that what is in the AC is as correct as it can be and maybe a bit useful. There are greater volumes of info on this than I could ever include on the list.

    Just an opinion.......

    Dave S
    Kitfox 7 Trigear (Flying since 2009)
    912ULS Warp Drive

    St Paul, MN

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •