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Thread: The Barn Find Build

  1. #301
    taff's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    I saw the molded seat units your working on.
    Boy is that downright butchery

    It looks like you have the right product to fix the muckups.
    It's good to see that your not leaving the buggered up units the way they were.
    Completed my Classic 4, May 2003. It had std wings. speedster tail.
    912 UL Rotax. Sold to a person in Spain.

    Completed a Skybolt December 2018

  2. #302
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    regarding the foam on the flapperon, I tapered mine back where the relief just met the trailing edge of the aluminum. I don't have any free hanging material by the time it reaches the trailing edge. Use a 5X7 index card like a squeegee. Wrap it around the tip and drag it across the foam and hysol. Straight Hysol goes to a glossy smooth finish when used alone. I barely needed to sand on the hysol at all. I then filled in the low spots with smurf poop and sanded smooth for paint.
    Eddie Forward
    Flying
    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

  3. #303
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrytex View Post
    Looks good. Yeah the original builder probably did everyone a favor by passing on that plane to someone who actually cares about workmanship.
    I do care about it, I'm just not sure that I always achieve it! I'm pretty sure this airplane would have become a statistic if it had been completed. That is, assuming it had gotten an Airworthiness Cert. Having met the builder a couple of times, I'm not sure that would have stopped him from flying it.

    On my untouched seat pan, the upper corners seemed weak. They flexed quite a bit and were cracked. I reinforced both corners with layers of fiberglass and reshaped.
    Yes, the corner near the pilot's left shoulder on my seat pan is cracked where it lays on a diagonal tube, so I think I'll have to do the same thing. I got some fiberglass and resin from Spruce, just in case.

    Quote Originally Posted by efwd View Post
    regarding the foam on the flapperon, I tapered mine back where the relief just met the trailing edge of the aluminum. I don't have any free hanging material by the time it reaches the trailing edge. Use a 5X7 index card like a squeegee. Wrap it around the tip and drag it across the foam and hysol. Straight Hysol goes to a glossy smooth finish when used alone. I barely needed to sand on the hysol at all. I then filled in the low spots with smurf poop and sanded smooth for paint.
    That sounds like a good idea. I wasn't able to work on the plane today, but I'll check the tips tomorrow and see how sturdy those trailing edges are. I don't expect them to work as I did them, so I'll probably just cut the foam off flush, glue on a new piece and do as you suggested. Thanks for the idea!
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  4. #304
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    That crime scene of holes is because the series 5 manual has you make slots and use zip ties to hold the seat pan to the tube structure. We all know your PO had terrible aim with a drill, but wow. He was either mostly blind or highly intoxicated.

    Filling with resin/milled fiber was the correct thing to do. And absolutely nothing wrong with using packing tape or pretty much any damn thing you can think of to hold the stuff to a shape. It's pretty damn strong stuff. I never tried it but you could probably tap a threaded hole in it.

    Oh speaking of intoxicated, that smell you experienced is the styrene in the resin. Do NOT be tempted to use that stuff on the foam you used on your flaperon tips. That stuff is styrene too and any contact from that resin/milled fiber will eat holes instantly.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  5. #305
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    Well, it would seem that fiberglass work isn't as easy as it looks on TV.

    After 18 hours my garage still stunk to high heaven and the putty I put in the seat pan holes had only firmed up a little bit (ambient temp ~65dF). I moved the seat directly in front of the heater with a fan blowing across it, and after 36 hours most of the patches have cured but a few are still tacky. Most don't feel very solid and I wouldn't dare attempt to re-drill through them (except to remove the failed patches).

    As I suspected, the edge repair didn't grab ahold of the existing glass/resin and snapped off with very little pressure. I don't think this putty is going to work as an edge repair.

    The repair putty cured to a translucent appearance, and it doesn't seem to contain very much glass fiber. I'm thinking that I should mix in quite a bit more for the next attempt.

    Oh, and don't ever put packing tape on the gelcoat side of your seat pan. The tape comes off fine but leaves all of its adhesive behind. Removing it takes a lot of acetone and a lot of elbow grease.

    Anyway, I'm at a loss on how to proceed...
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  6. #306
    taff's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    Go to Pep Boys or somewhere.

    Buy a rotary sanding mandrel and 24 grit disc (I think they are 2" across.)
    You will need this in your drill to prep the back side of the seat. Do a good job, to make sure the repair holds good.

    Buy a fiberglass mat and resin kit.

    Get some of those real cheap 2" brushes and some paper mixing cups from Walmart or somewhere.

    Get some light soft aluminum and bend form it to the white side of the seat. This will be your support for applying the fiberglass.
    Tape in down with duct tape.
    Before taping down the aluminum cut a piece of kitchen wax paper. this is going to prevent the polyester resin from sticking to the aluminum.

    Get a little glue to hold the wax paper to the aluminum.
    (if you have a spray can of upholstery glue that would be good but anything will work. It ain't going to hold good because you trying to stick wax paper, but something to stop the paper from falling out.)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Completed my Classic 4, May 2003. It had std wings. speedster tail.
    912 UL Rotax. Sold to a person in Spain.

    Completed a Skybolt December 2018

  7. #307
    Senior Member 109JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    Not sure but I think the seat pan is epoxy resin, which means you can't use polyester based resin on it. Even if it is polyester you can use epoxy on it, so I would default to epoxy.
    John Brannen
    Morris, IL
    Sonerai IIL (Single Seat)
    Kitfox 3/4 1050 - Rotax 582 (Back Flying and sold)
    Kitfox IV 1050 - Rotax 582 (sold)
    Kitfox IV 1200 Speedster - Rotax 912 UL (project)
    Piper Twin Comanche (Sold)
    Glasair 1 FT (Waiting to start)

  8. #308
    taff's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    Agree, use epoxy if the part is made with epoxy or polyester resin.
    Polyester resin if part is made with polyester resin

    The seats have a white gel coat, this is normally a polyester resin, so I am thinking they are all polyester. And from memory of when I built my Fox.
    If your familier, you can detect polyester while your grinding the back side, from the smell. (wear a mask while sanding and sniff after the dust settles)

    Or hand sand a area of white gel coat with P180 grit, just a small area enough to get white powder on the sandpaper and smell = this is polyester.
    Compare the back side sanding to that smell. If it's the same = polyester.

    I was thinking...Instead of getting thin aluminum. Get a large soft drink bottle (Coke) something with non profiled sides.
    And cut it down the length to fit the shape of the lip of the seat. Maybe that would work?

    This is a good epoxy (from ACS) it has a quick drying hardener also.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Completed my Classic 4, May 2003. It had std wings. speedster tail.
    912 UL Rotax. Sold to a person in Spain.

    Completed a Skybolt December 2018

  9. #309
    Senior Member rv9ralph's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    Also, when doing a patch like that on fiberglass, you need to scarf (think wood joint) the edge to give the repair some "grip". I just did some repairs on my seat pan, I scarfed the edge at least 1". If you use something to support the edge to build it out, put packing tape on it and the resin won't stick to the tape. The easiest way to apply the glass, is to lay out some plastic sheet on a flat work surface, wet out the glass on this using the minimal amount of epoxy needed to wet the glass, use a rotary cutter to cut the wetted glass into 1" wide strips, apply the wetted strips to the repair overlapping the edges and build up the edge area to the appropriate thickness. Do this from the front and again from the back, When the glass is partially cured to the "leather" stage cut with scissors to the desired edge.

    Ralph

  10. #310
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Barn Find Build

    Thanks very much, guys. Lots to go on there.

    I must have been expecting magic from that edge repair; it didn't have a hope of sticking with no overlap (scarf).

    I'll be away much of today, but I'll do the sand-and-sniff test this evening to see if I can confirm the seat is made from polyester resin. If so, I'll re-try the hole repairs first, mixing in more milled glass fiber to get a much thicker slurry. Maybe it would be useful to sand a rough divot into the gelcoat side with coarse paper, so the putty has something to grab onto on both sides. I think I'll also add a couple more drops of MEKP to see if it'll cure faster than three days.

    If that works, then I'll take a stab at the edges. I have a couple yards of glass mat and a quart kit of Poly Epoxy.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

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