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Thread: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    I'm in Tacoma and I'm just getting rolling on my KF 5 project. You're welcome to come take a look at it, and I wouldn't mind seeing this project of yours. I've already been purging some extra parts (duplicates that have been replaced by KF 7 pieces).

    I'm going to guess that your current cabane gear was the factory standard bungee gear from that time period. The single piece Grove was considered an upgrade at the time and now we've come full circle - though the shocks are an order of magnitude better than bungee cord. I could be wrong on all of that, but I have slept in a Holiday Inn Express recently.

    I'm having no problems getting parts/support from the McBeans. In fact everything I've gotten from them has been an upgrade. Better design, better made, easier to build.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    Quote Originally Posted by jmodguy View Post
    I just completed a Series 5 and can tell you that the 5, 6, and 7 share many similarities. Trent Palmers Bird is a Series 5 also. The cabane gear and Grove gear will bolt up and the fairing covers will work. Cowls and firewall fwd will also work. Seat pan will fit and you can still get a baggage sack for a 5.
    The one item you need to check is the wall thickness of the wing spars. If they are .050, the gw is 1400 lbs. If they are .063 the gw is 1550.
    If you do buy this, you may want to consider buying the S7 elevator. It has a deeper chord (@3”). The other item is the reinforcing plate at the tailwheel if the fuse is not covered yet.
    Can you expand on this reinforcing plate for the tailwheel? If I'm going to have any welding done (and it looks like I will), I want to do it once and move on.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5


  4. #14
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    Thank you. That does not look like major surgery

  5. #15
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    Quote Originally Posted by bbs428 View Post
    I would strip it and go over everything from page one until your satisfied that it was done correctly or you do it to your satisfaction. It will be more work, trust me but the savings over a new kit might be substantial. Check for corrosion everywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by PapuaPilot View Post
    I would also lean towards taking the fabric off the fuselage and redoing it. Drips and runs are almost impossible to correct and tend to show through the finished job. While the fabric is off you should go through everything. Like others said there could be poor workmanship, corrosion, etc. That was the case on my model 5 Outback, I found several things that needed to be redone on mine including misaligned control pivots, tight rudder pedals, corrosion, too tight bolts, etc.
    Good advice, and I'll almost certainly do that. I don't think corrosion is likely (the trailer where it's stored is bone dry inside), but as we all know, it's insidious. And, as you both suggested, there's no telling what else the covering is hiding, especially inside the tail and control surfaces.

    -=-=-=-=-

    Quote Originally Posted by PapuaPilot View Post
    Are you going to be happy with the 1400# gross weight? If you go with a Rotax it shouldn't be a problem. I have a 1550 GW Model 5 with a Continental IO-240 and have a UL of 657# and ~500# with full fuel. I wouldn't be happy with a ~500# UL, which leaves only ~350# with full fuel.
    Happy? Probably not thrilled, but I'm willing to live with it for a savings of nearly $30,000. Most of my flying will be solo (all of my cross-country will be), and I'm comfortable with reducing fuel loads when I have a passenger on local flights.


    FYI you can download a free copy of the Poly Fiber manual. I believe it is on their website.
    Yes, I've looked through it. I thought it might contain advice on removing Poly-Fiber, but it doesn't. I emailed Consolidated and a nice guy named Greg replied and answered my questions on that subject. In case anyone's interested, he said to just peel the fabric off and the adhesive residues can be removed with acetone (he suggested testing a small area with a cotton swab to be sure the acetone doesn't attack any paint or powder coat underneath).

    The factory should be able to supply almost everything on the model 5. Get the larger elevator.
    Second recommendation on the larger elevator. Apparently that's a good idea!


    If you get the plane there are plenty of us that have built the Model 5. I have a complete manual and would be happy to give you copies of any pages you need.
    Very generous, thank you. If I go forward, I'll certainly keep this in mind.


    -=-=-=-=-

    Quote Originally Posted by avidflyer View Post
    Just to be clear, runs on the inside of the fuselage from poly brush aren't really that bad of a thing. That shows that the fabric was saturated and the poly brush is locked to the fabric. Very dry on the inside would be worse then runs. Runs on the outside are a different story, poly brush doesn't sand well at all. May have some success flattening them with an iron over a plastic sheet. The poly brush will melt and spread out somewhat. Once everything cools, the plastic should pop off.
    Good to know. If there are flat panels on the fuselage that look OK otherwise, maybe there'll be a way to selectively re-cover, and try to correct runs and drips on some of the original work. Since the top of the fuselage is still open, inspecting mechanical work will be easy.

    Also, you mentioned poly spray and UV blocker as if they are different things. The poly spray is the UV blocker.
    Indeed. I realized the next day that I was talking garbage! That's my level of knowledge about the process. I guess my concern is that it was applied heavily with a brush instead of in sprayed coats.

    -=-=-=-=-

    Quote Originally Posted by alexM View Post
    I'm in Tacoma and I'm just getting rolling on my KF 5 project. You're welcome to come take a look at it, and I wouldn't mind seeing this project of yours. I've already been purging some extra parts (duplicates that have been replaced by KF 7 pieces).
    Thank you! I'll be up your way soon. PM sent.

    I'm going to guess that your current cabane gear was the factory standard bungee gear from that time period. The single piece Grove was considered an upgrade at the time and now we've come full circle - though the shocks are an order of magnitude better than bungee cord.
    I believe it is. The owner didn't indicate that it was an upgrade, and I don't believe that he had any interest in back-country flying. Frankly, I don't know that I'll do much of it either, but I plan to use shocks of some description anyway. Good for my ego.

    I'm having no problems getting parts/support from the McBeans. In fact everything I've gotten from them has been an upgrade. Better design, better made, easier to build.
    Glad to hear it. I emailed the factory through their website last week, before this popped up, asking a few questions about the current kits and delivery schedules, and haven't seen any reply.

    -=-=-=-=-

    Thanks, everyone. This thread has been a massive help. I'll keep my eye peeled for any additional advice, and I'll let y'all know what I decide to do.

    Eric

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    Eric, my brother and I are building a kitfox 5 that was originally sold in 1994. Our kit was never started by the original buyer. We are first time builders but have learned a lot over the last 2 years. There are service bulletins that I'm sure you would have to complete. The rudder peddle reinforcement is just one. But the most critical would the fuel tanks. If this kit was built with the original tanks they should be replaced because they will not hold up to the fuel additives. Each tank is about $450.00 plus shipping. And removing those tanks after being epoxied to the spars and ribs is going to be a major job. We new some of this before we purchased our kit and we got lucky and paid less than half of this asking price. My honest opinion is at $20K plus all the updates I would look at a new factory kit.

    Joe
    KF5 Rotax 912uls
    Freedom, WI

  7. #17
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverFox5 View Post
    There are service bulletins that I'm sure you would have to complete. The rudder peddle reinforcement is just one. But the most critical would the fuel tanks. If this kit was built with the original tanks they should be replaced because they will not hold up to the fuel additives.
    Thanks for your post, Joe. After reading it, I went to the Kitfox website and looked through the lists of Service Bulletins and Service Letters. I can't find one regarding rudder pedals that applies to the Series 5 Safari; just Vixens of various serial numbers (SB #38).

    WRT fuel tanks, I can only find a Bulletin (SB #60) regarding fuel tank rinsing, and one (SB-42, and a correction, SB-42A) regarding leaking fuel valves with specific part numbers, but there doesn't appear to be a Letter or Bulletin about fuel tank replacement.

    Can you help me with a source for the need to do rudder pedal reinforcement on non-Vixen Series 5 aircraft, or to replace Series 5 fuel tanks? Is this just tribal knowledge? It seems like something that the factory would have documented.

    Thanks!
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    As far as the old fuel tanks go, there are a lot of planes flying with the older tanks in them. If you can get non oxygenated fuel or run avgas, the old tanks will probably be fine. It is the alcohol in auto fuel that is a problem for the older tanks. Another bit of protection is to slosh the tanks with KBS coating or Caswell's tank sealant. If they were sloshed with Kreem at the factory, that should probably be washed out first with acetone before you put the new sealant in. JImChuk

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    Some tribal knowledge sent to me in the last month. Two separate model 5 non-Vixens with broken rudder pedals. One was on short final with a crosswind. No damage or injuries due to above average pilot skills and a little luck. Fix your pedals guys. The same pedals are used in Vixens, Safaris and Outbacks. Taildraggers put way more stress on the pedals than do nose wheel models.


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  10. #20
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

    Quote Originally Posted by avidflyer View Post
    If you can get non oxygenated fuel or run avgas, the old tanks will probably be fine. It is the alcohol in auto fuel that is a problem for the older tanks. Another bit of protection is to slosh the tanks with KBS coating or Caswell's tank sealant. If they were sloshed with Kreem at the factory, that should probably be washed out first with acetone before you put the new sealant in.
    OK, got it. I'm at a county airport with self-serve avgas, and have a very convenient supply of high-octane ethanol-free auto gas at a station 10 min away, so I don't think this would be a major concern. I'll definitely look into the tank coating before installing the wings. Thank you.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

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