Need help evaluating a barn find Kitfox Series 5

[Dave S]

Eric,

Many of your questions I could not answer without seeing the project; however, I would offer the following input.

While photos are not real good for someone else to assess many things, the photos of the fuselage covering are sufficient, in my opinion, to think that the fuselage should be stripped and recovered. The misc damage, poor finishing and questions you have about what process was used in parts of the finishing would cause me to want to strip it and start over. Also, while it is an esthetic thing, the finishing of the shape of the end of the VS isn't too pretty and that cannot be fixed unless the fabric is removed - pretty easy to do with the fabric off.

I cannot see enough of the wings in the photo to venture a guess on them.

Since you mentioned you are not familiar with fabric covering but are considering building a fabric covered aircraft, by all means - get the Poly fiber book titled "How to cover an aircraft" if you are going to use their system. Really straight forward, practical and would solve a ton of questions you have and it is essential to using their products.

On the lack of documentation, I would go to, call up, the horse's mouth (your faa MIDO {Manufacturing Inspection District Office}) and ask them since they are to ones having the final call on the airworthiness of the aircraft anyway. I found our office very helpful and they do have work arounds for unique situations.

I have three friends who built S5s and they all really, really like them.

[Eric Page]

Thanks, Dave.

Your concerns about the fuselage covering process, and the shape of the vertical stab end, echo my own. I think it’s probably a write-off and will have to be redone. I strongly suspect that I’ll find similar conditions on the wings and control surfaces. Since I couldn’t inspect them due to the place and manner they were stored, it’s a bit of a crap shoot.

i posted the builder’s log question on the EAA forum and got a reply from a DAR saying it’s not a big deal and my proposal to have the owner sign a statement about the work he’s done would be sufficient. I’ll definitely confirm with the MIDO, in case my DAR got up on the wrong side of the bed on inspection day.

Thanks again!

[bbs428]

I would strip it and go over everything from page one until your satisfied that it was done correctly or you do it to your satisfaction. It will be more work, trust me but the savings over a new kit might be substantial. Check for corrosion everywhere.

I purchased a older 5 outback kit. It was not as far along this one. I removed what was done and had no choice but to redo most of the control system for my own peace of mind. Also had to do a lot of corrosion control as some of the powder coat was compromised and rust had wicked up and under it in places. My factory built wings were in good shape after 20 years in a barn. Aluminum spars just needed to be cleaned of critters and alodined. Hysol glue joints were still very good.

All the best. Nice find!

[Eric Page]

I would strip it and go over everything from page one until your satisfied that it was done correctly or you do it to your satisfaction. It will be more work, trust me but the savings over a new kit might be substantial. Check for corrosion everywhere.

I would also lean towards taking the fabric off the fuselage and redoing it. Drips and runs are almost impossible to correct and tend to show through the finished job. While the fabric is off you should go through everything. Like others said there could be poor workmanship, corrosion, etc. That was the case on my model 5 Outback, I found several things that needed to be redone on mine including misaligned control pivots, tight rudder pedals, corrosion, too tight bolts, etc.

Good advice, and I'll almost certainly do that. I don't think corrosion is likely (the trailer where it's stored is bone dry inside), but as we all know, it's insidious. And, as you both suggested, there's no telling what else the covering is hiding, especially inside the tail and control surfaces.

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Are you going to be happy with the 1400# gross weight? If you go with a Rotax it shouldn't be a problem. I have a 1550 GW Model 5 with a Continental IO-240 and have a UL of 657# and ~500# with full fuel. I wouldn't be happy with a ~500# UL, which leaves only ~350# with full fuel.

Happy? Probably not thrilled, but I'm willing to live with it for a savings of nearly $30,000. Most of my flying will be solo (all of my cross-country will be), and I'm comfortable with reducing fuel loads when I have a passenger on local flights.

FYI you can download a free copy of the Poly Fiber manual. I believe it is on their website.

Yes, I've looked through it. I thought it might contain advice on removing Poly-Fiber, but it doesn't. I emailed Consolidated and a nice guy named Greg replied and answered my questions on that subject. In case anyone's interested, he said to just peel the fabric off and the adhesive residues can be removed with acetone (he suggested testing a small area with a cotton swab to be sure the acetone doesn't attack any paint or powder coat underneath).

The factory should be able to supply almost everything on the model 5. Get the larger elevator.

Second recommendation on the larger elevator. Apparently that's a good idea!

If you get the plane there are plenty of us that have built the Model 5. I have a complete manual and would be happy to give you copies of any pages you need.

Very generous, thank you. If I go forward, I'll certainly keep this in mind.


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Just to be clear, runs on the inside of the fuselage from poly brush aren't really that bad of a thing. That shows that the fabric was saturated and the poly brush is locked to the fabric. Very dry on the inside would be worse then runs. Runs on the outside are a different story, poly brush doesn't sand well at all. May have some success flattening them with an iron over a plastic sheet. The poly brush will melt and spread out somewhat. Once everything cools, the plastic should pop off.

Good to know. If there are flat panels on the fuselage that look OK otherwise, maybe there'll be a way to selectively re-cover, and try to correct runs and drips on some of the original work. Since the top of the fuselage is still open, inspecting mechanical work will be easy.

Also, you mentioned poly spray and UV blocker as if they are different things. The poly spray is the UV blocker.

Indeed. I realized the next day that I was talking garbage! That's my level of knowledge about the process. I guess my concern is that it was applied heavily with a brush instead of in sprayed coats.

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I'm in Tacoma and I'm just getting rolling on my KF 5 project. You're welcome to come take a look at it, and I wouldn't mind seeing this project of yours. I've already been purging some extra parts (duplicates that have been replaced by KF 7 pieces).

Thank you! I'll be up your way soon. PM sent.

I'm going to guess that your current cabane gear was the factory standard bungee gear from that time period. The single piece Grove was considered an upgrade at the time and now we've come full circle - though the shocks are an order of magnitude better than bungee cord.

I believe it is. The owner didn't indicate that it was an upgrade, and I don't believe that he had any interest in back-country flying. Frankly, I don't know that I'll do much of it either, but I plan to use shocks of some description anyway. Good for my ego.

I'm having no problems getting parts/support from the McBeans. In fact everything I've gotten from them has been an upgrade. Better design, better made, easier to build.

Glad to hear it. I emailed the factory through their website last week, before this popped up, asking a few questions about the current kits and delivery schedules, and haven't seen any reply.

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Thanks, everyone. This thread has been a massive help. I'll keep my eye peeled for any additional advice, and I'll let y'all know what I decide to do.

Eric

[rv9ralph]

You could also check with Kitfox for recommendations if the original bill of sale is not located.

Ralph

[Eric Page]

Apparently Kitfox Aircraft have been dealing with this problem for awhile. There's a page on the factory website that deals with this exact problem.

[Eric Page]

Status update:

I did purchase this project and brought it home last Saturday. Getting it out of the owner's semi trailer and transported to my garage was a 3-ring circus, and it would have been impossible without the help of three very generous neighbors. It took four men 90 minutes to clear a path for the fuselage to come out, which included removing a riding lawn mower without the benefit of ramps (and putting it back once the plane was out!). The whole operation took more than eight hours; I'll leave the details to your imagination.

I had a busy week so only started looking the plane over in detail today. I'll be posting some photos and asking many questions as I inspect everything and find issues with the previous owner's work.

It's safe to say that this was less a purchase than a rescue:

• I don't think there's any way to avoid stripping and recovering everything, as the Poly-Fiber application was, frankly, appalling. Perhaps not unsafe, but definitely unsightly.
• I found a hardware store fastener in the flight controls, very tight elevator control linkages (over-torqued?), a dent in the elevator push-pull tube and damaged skin on the flaperons (looks repairable).
• The upper right portion of the firewall is bent, it has some random ~1/2" holes for which I can't identify a purpose, and it has several blobs of Hysol stuck to the engine side.
• Brake lines are pinched between fuselage tubes and fabric, and pass through the firewall to the reservoir without a grommet.
• Looking into the outboard ends of the wings, it appears that each of the rib stitches is independent rather than chained together. Reaching in through the last rib, none of the threads that pass from top to bottom are tight; I can move them easily with a light touch of my fingertip.

I went through eight boxes of random hardware and parts. It looks like I have the installation kit for a carbureted Rotax 912, along with all of the other airframe hardware. Some of the fasteners have been in their zipper bags since 1995 and have a powdery white surface corrosion on them. Most of the stick-on labels on the bags have fallen off, so I sorted through everything and put the labels inside the bags (probably got some of them wrong).

Basically, the poor thing is a bit of a basket case, and it surely deserves better. With some luck, some help, some hard work and some cash, one day it'll fly. Wish me luck!