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Thread: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

  1. #1

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    Default Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    Ok I bought a KF IV fuse from a guy last year in PA (where I live) and I need to consider engine choices. I am considering the following:
    Rotax: 583 & 912
    Viking: 90-130

    Is the 582 a viable engine choice? Price seems to be right.

    912 I see just as much problems with this one as the 582....and the prices are staggering. Why? NOT Certified.... 582 priced right and looks to give good power.

    Viking engines have not heard much in the way of Viking powered KF's These are priced very well and complete package seems very nice. But that 582 keeps coming back....

    I'd like to keep the price low but really want reliability not going to go real fast or need super performance, Just don't want any surprises.

    FH~

  2. #2
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    You really need to decide first whether you want a 2 or a 4-stroke engine; there are major differences between the two. The 2-strokes have MUCH shorter TBO times, use lots more fuel for the HP they produce, are generally less reliable, and sound "funny" in my opinion. If you're OK with a 2-stroke, the 582 seems to be a good one.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    Thanks for the good info and will be using it when I make my selection. I like how the four strokes sound too. The 582's sound like they are in a tin box. But the damn price is nice.

    FH~

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    I think the Viking engine will be pretty heavy. The Kitfox 4 I'm rebuilding now had a Subaru engine, and it had 20 lbs of lead in the tail to balance it out. Maybe the Viking is lighter, but maybe not. I have a 912 in the Kitfox 4 now, and hope to keep it under 650 lbs. That will be down from over 800 before with the Subaru. Not all of that extra weight can be blamed on the Subaru, but a lot of it can be. Another option perhaps is a Jabiru 85 HP 4 cylinder. I have close to 600 hrs on the one in my Avid Flyer and I like it. It comes in lighter then the 912, but I think an 80 HP 912 would out perform it in the same airplane. JImChuk

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    Ok thanks some really good info. All being considered.
    FH~

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dusty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    If your intention is to fly local (50mile) the 582 is a great engine but 70 mph is a realistic cruise v's 90 for he 912. I fly my brothers 4 with a 582 which outperforms my 912 powered 4 in takeoff and landing and is marginally lower climb rate. Add a passenger and the 582 starts to lag behind. Fuel burn surprisingly is similar per hour but at a different cruse speed! Both engines are are awesome and suite the 4 very well with the 912 at the upper end of the weight/cg limit of a 4. Your sensible choice is rotax be it 2 or 4 stroke.
    I have recently been flying with a jabaru powered Avid and although not a direct comparison it falls midway between the two in cruise but is not startling in takeoff or climb. From what I have seen here the 582 has a better reliability record.We have a few Viking powered aircraft (non kitfox) that are only marginally better than the 912 but their weight rules them out for a 4.

  7. #7
    Senior Member 109JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    I would also vote either 582 or 912, leaning toward the 912. I remember somewhere reading that the acquisition and operational cost even out about 800 hours if comparing new to new. This is because the 582 needs more frequent overhaul and consume more fuel.

    The reason I say 582 or 912 is because they are proven on this airframe, have installation kits, engine mounts, etc available. The 582 you can have about a 550 lb airplane. I'm hoping to have about a 600 pound 912 powered Kitfox for my project airplane. Might be wishful thinking though. Will have to see.
    John Brannen
    Morris, IL
    Sonerai IIL (Single Seat)
    Kitfox 3/4 1050 - Rotax 582 (Back Flying and sold)
    Kitfox IV 1050 - Rotax 582 (sold)
    Kitfox IV 1200 Speedster - Rotax 912 UL (project)
    Piper Twin Comanche (Sold)
    Glasair 1 FT (Waiting to start)

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    John,
    What is the furthest you have flown in a KF IV with the 582 in miles?


    EK~

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    Not John, but here is a video of Joey Myers flying on one of his trips between California and Idaho's Johnson Creek. His trusty 582 in an Avid Flyer. He has quite a few other vids if you look through his channel. Another guy who is on the AvidFoxFlyers Forum flew his 582 powered Avid from California to Conneticut. JImChuk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5cqalZuONw tried the link after I posted it and it didn't work for me. look for Headed to McCall ILov2fly that's the name Joey goes by on utube.
    Last edited by avidflyer; 05-12-2020 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member 109JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic IV build engine suggestions and WHY!

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxHunter View Post
    John,
    What is the furthest you have flown in a KF IV with the 582 in miles?


    EK~
    Well not that far yet because I only got it last fall. However I have had it about 100 miles from home. That's only because I haven't had the time or opportunity to take it anywhere especially since this whole COVID-19 thing started. With the 2-stroke the concern for me is not going on a cross country somewhere, which would be constant RPM cruise conditions. The concern, which is not really a concern, is stuff like take-off and landing practice where temps and RPM are up, then down, then up, then down. I say it is not really a concern meaning I'm not afraid of it. It just requires minding the store so to speak. In colder weather particularly I have found you need to pay more attention to engine temps in the 2-stroke.
    John Brannen
    Morris, IL
    Sonerai IIL (Single Seat)
    Kitfox 3/4 1050 - Rotax 582 (Back Flying and sold)
    Kitfox IV 1050 - Rotax 582 (sold)
    Kitfox IV 1200 Speedster - Rotax 912 UL (project)
    Piper Twin Comanche (Sold)
    Glasair 1 FT (Waiting to start)

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