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Thread: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

  1. #1

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    Default Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    From what I understand the standard engines for Kitfoxes are the Rotax four-cylinder four-strokes, the Rotec, different Lycomings and Continentals, the Titan and the Jabiru 3300. If one chooses one of these engines then I presume that the necessary parts, such as engine mounts and cowlings, are easily available. I was wondering whether it would be about as easy/difficult to install instead an engine by D-Motor or ULPower or an automotive derived engine like a Corvair or a VW derived engine or an engine by Aero Momentum, by Firewall Forward (CAM) or by Viking, or, if available, by a Subaru derived engine.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rodney's Avatar
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    Post Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    Genie - Welcome to the Kitfox Forum. You will find lots of really good info here.

    IMHO - I think you will find that a significant majority here will recommend the Rotax - either the ULS or the newer injected version.

    We do have several members that have Lycomings and Continentals, so hopefully they will jump in here with their thoughts.

    Mine is the 912ULS and I can't imagine a better engine for the Kitfox. Just my opinion.

    Regards
    Rodney Wren

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    Welcome to the forum.
    Interesting question, Rodney is right that Rotax rules on here. I would like to fly in a kitfox with the Viking 130hp engine with the electric constant speed prop. Rotax has a hole in the hp range above 100hp without going with the really high price turbo version. Everyone says 100hp is all one needs but I've never wanted less hp in an airplane..
    Harlan and Susan Payne
    Sold Piper Archer
    Flying FarmFox STI Kitfox N61HP
    Rotax 915is, Airmaster prop
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5A...oCVUP15G0uB-Yw

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    Senior Member rv9ralph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    I would like to fly in a kitfox with the Viking 130hp engine...
    So, I was reading an article in the latest Kitplanes about the Zodiac Cruzer. He had a Viking engine. It is worth a read to balance when deciding. He had some issues.

    Ralph

  5. #5
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    Thanks for that Ralph, I don't get kitplanes and can't find the article online but would like to see it because I have been looking at the Viking engines and it hard to find much research on them. I'll see if I can locate the issue. Thanks
    Harlan and Susan Payne
    Sold Piper Archer
    Flying FarmFox STI Kitfox N61HP
    Rotax 915is, Airmaster prop
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5A...oCVUP15G0uB-Yw

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    Harlan, I just read that article last night(the one that Ralph is reffering to), and believe me you need to find a copy of the June 2020 Kitplanes and read it. And if you can't find one , I'll send you mine. That's how strongly I believe in NOT using "alternative or non-standard engines" in your new Kitfox. Its an eye opener for someone considering going that route. Bruce N199CL

  7. #7
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    Thanks Bruce , I will get a copy for sure if I can find one.
    Harlan and Susan Payne
    Sold Piper Archer
    Flying FarmFox STI Kitfox N61HP
    Rotax 915is, Airmaster prop
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5A...oCVUP15G0uB-Yw

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    Quote Originally Posted by airlina View Post
    Harlan, I just read that article last night(the one that Ralph is reffering to), and believe me you need to find a copy of the June 2020 Kitplanes and read it. And if you can't find one , I'll send you mine. That's how strongly I believe in NOT using "alternative or non-standard engines" in your new Kitfox. Its an eye opener for someone considering going that route. Bruce N199CL
    Thanks to all for your comments.

    As for a Viking engine, I discussed this with homebuilder friends. They all dis-endorse the Viking engines as they say that they are made by the same people who used to provide modified Subaru engines for aircraft.

    It seems that the consensus is to go for a Rotax engine. I can see three issues with this:

    1) Such an engine is usually rather expensive, at least compared to some alternatives.

    2) I have heard of reliability issues with Rotaxes as they can fail. They are highly stressed for aircraft engines as they produce more than 1 HP per cubic inch, and in some cases 1.2 HP per cubic inch.

    3) Most important: I heard of many Rotax engines being stolen from their aircraft. As they are so good thieves take them. I would like to be able to sleep with peace of mind at nights and not worry about my Rotax engine being stolen.

    I understand that Lycoming and Continental engines are very reliable as they have been around since the fifties and sixties and have logged numerous hours in aircraft. Their output is half a horsepower per cubic inch. However I understand that they are somewhat heavy compared to Rotaxes and require lead replacement additives to their fuel.

    As for the Belgian engines, they are not less expensive than Rotaxes. ULPower engines provide 2/3rds of a HP per cubic inch, or around 1.5 cu.in per HP. Neither engine type uses reduction gears.

    Jabiru engines, I hear, suffer from cooling problems. One can get liquid cooled cylinder heads for them. But in that case they cost more and are no longer standard engines.

    I love the looks and sound of Rotec engines. However according to an article which I once read the after sales service of the company was not up to scratch. Besides such engines are heavy and draggy and obscure forward visibility. When compared with the likes of Rotax one can see how much half a century of progress has resulted in.

    Unless anyone can find an alternative I reckon that this would give me a choice between a Rotax, a Lycoming and a Continental engine.

    George Nielsen

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    This is an interesting comment. Since my previous entry I managed to locate the article you are mentioned, I believe. I believe that it comes from Kitplanes June 2020 pp 18 - 25. Initially the builder chose a Viking 130 HP 1.5-litre Honda Fit engine. After experiencing many problems with it he replaced it with a ULPower 350iS. From what I understand from this article one should avoid the former. Using Google I found that many people have written about Viking engine problems.

    George Nielsen

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-standard Engines for Kitfoxes

    Another point to consider when thinking about an auto conversion engine: Call up the insurance carrier who you would have insure the plane and ask them about it.

    Before I sent in my order for my kit - called the guys up and the answer I got was they really, really liked kitfox airplanes with a rotax 4 stroke and trigear.

    Auto engines are not necessarily shown the same consideration by insurers as engines designed for aircraft in the first place; and, that can translate into cost and insurability.......but it depends.

    Just a thought
    Dave S
    Kitfox 7 Trigear (Flying since 2009)
    912ULS Warp Drive

    St Paul, MN

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