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Thread: Project 5 build thread

  1. #171
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    As of tonight ribs 3-9 are bonded in place. I'll get rib #10 done early tomorrow and the basic framing of my left wing will be complete. I'm doing my best to keep the garage warm and I'll give it a full 48 hours before I hang it on my wall and start on the right wing.

    I anticipate that the right wing will go much faster than the left since I won't need to stare at it for hours working out my layout/cleaning/clamping/bonding strategy.

    I could use a favor from anyone who has purchased quick build wings from the factory, and that is to see if you can post a picture or good description of the Hysol fillets at the rib/spar intersection.

    I've seen some pretty large fillets and I don't know if that is necessary, because if you look at the built up ribs there is just enough adhesive used there to do the job. No golf ball sized fillets holding the cap strips to the ribs, so how much is really needed to secure the ribs to the spars?

    Tongue depressor, popsicle stick, chop stick or what? I know some of you used your finger, which puts varies depending on your digits. Just wondering what the factory wings look like.
    PXL_20210227_022039762.jpg

    In my case I used my new Hysol mixing gun to lay a bead on the spar. Then I slid the rib in place and rubbed it back and forth a bit to make sure to get good contact, then clamped the ribs as precisely as possible. I let that kick off and then came back with the Hysol gun and spread about an 1/8" bead all around each side.

    As I feared from the beginning, the instructions have a flaw. After laying out the rib spacing on the spar, the 1/8" offset lines etc with a sharpie pen, you use a scotchbrite pad and denatured alcohol to prep the area before bonding. Then you get adhesive smeared over what is left of those lines and guess what you can see? Not much!

    The front spar isn't bad because the rib only goes part way around. But for the rear spar I would need some kind of reference system. So I used my newly acquired 3/8" aluminum stringer tubes, and a random strip of wood I ripped off the edge of a fir board for a house project to create an alignment system.

    I set three of the 3/8" stringer tubes next to each other and created a series of thin sharpie marks at 17.75" intervals to match the manual for rib spacing. I also carefully made marks at the same spacing on the strip of wood.

    I slid two of the stringers into the wing where they'll eventually live, and clamped them to ribs #5 and #7 (which I bonded to the spars when I did my drag/anti drag tubes) at the trailing edge. I clamped the 3rd tube to those same ribs at the trailing edge tip, which gave me a great index at the trailing edge to assure proper spacing.
    PXL_20210227_022114091.jpg
    I clamped the strip of wood to the lower cap strips so the marks would also line up with 5 and 7, and it turned out to be super helpful at keeping the ribs vertical.
    PXL_20210227_022059609.jpg
    Once this cures the stringer tubes will be pulled out. I'll use the same exact tubes for the right wing, then I'll scotchbrite/etch/alodine them before reintroducing them to the wing structure.

    In other news I sold my Citabria last Sunday

    There's the old saying about the two happiest days of airplane ownership, but my first day was trepidation about jumping into aircraft ownership and the day I sold it I felt as if I were betraying a friend. It is a great aircraft that never gave me a bit of trouble and had performance which always left me smiling.

    I posted it on Barnstormer's on a Friday night. My phone started blowing up on Saturday morning. The first person I responded to was from Bozeman, MT. He and his buddy were climbing in a rental car to come get it. The second call I returned was to a guy much more local. I wasn't going to sell the plane out from under the guys driving from Montana so I told him he could come see it, but he would have to wait until they'd had a chance to look at it.

    The local guy and his wife did come to see it Saturday. He looked at the logs and we took a couple of laps in the pattern in some very gusty crosswinds. He went off to consult mechanics but he liked the plane. The guys from Bozeman showed up at 7:30am Sunday. We looked over the plane, the logs and the weather. Ceilings were a joke. The wind was just as bad as the day before (16G22) but at least they were mostly down the runway.

    The plane was sold when we landed, and I don't mean to the insurance company. We did up paperwork and I got paid.

    They had plans to drop off the rental car and fly it home, but here in Western Washington it's mother nature who gets the last laugh in February. They stayed another day waiting for improving conditions. I told them they could leave the plane in my hangar until the end of March, which should give them time to watch for a weather window and ferry the plane to Bozeman.

    Like I said, I'll miss the plane. But I need the hangar space to rig my wings, do at least some of the covering and of course to park my Kitfox when it is done. It also puts some cash back in the bank for my panel, prop, etc.
    stills3.jpg
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  2. #172
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Clever bit of outside-the-box thinking on using the stringers to set spacing for your ribs. I bet you'll have two completed wings within 2 or 3 weeks.

    Condolences on selling your Citabria!
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  3. #173
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    I achieved what I think is a milestone last night when I bonded rib #10 in place and also "tacked" the drag/anti-drag tubes to the ribs they pass through. I'm now able to pull the left wing off my fixture and start on the right wing.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  4. #174
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    I'm now booked to fly at Stick and Rudder on March 21,22. I'll be flying a standard wing plane powered by a 912iS big bore. It looks like I'm able to show up on the afternoon of the 20th and get some ground work out of the way. Two full-ish days of flying should be fun.

    I've got my hotel booked. The drive should be no problem. I'm pumped.

    My Citabria flew away today so my Kitfox took it's spot in the middle of the hangar.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  5. #175
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    PXL_20210308_022354262.jpg
    I finished sanding the ribs for the right wing. Today I made the rivet notches for ribs 5-8 and got all ribs 3-9 on the spars. I made sure everything was tight to the fixture and clamped everything in place. Then I deburred all the steel fittings for the drag/anti-drag tubes and next thing I knew I had a drill in my hand.

    I didn't even work hard and by 4:30 in the afternoon I had all the holes for the drag/anti-drag pieces drilled. Amazing how fast it goes with a little practice.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  6. #176
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    The work you're getting done and the speed at which you're doing it, in that small space, is really impressive. I'm constantly tripping over things and reorganizing in a 23' x 23' 2-car garage!
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  7. #177
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    I didn't get any work done on my wings during the week but I did get my exhaust system.
    PXL_20210311_041148016.jpg
    PXL_20210310_050024886.jpg
    I'm quite happy with the quality of it so far.

    Yesterday I did the etch and Alodine for my right wing drag/anti-drag tubes and the long 3/8" stringers for the wings.

    Today I got a decent build session in and managed to get my drag/anti-drag tubes completely riveted and bonded to the spars, along with ribs 5 and 7 of course. Unlike the left wing, this time I did it all in one shot. It's curing right now so I'll let that ride for at least a day before I do ribs 6, 4, 8, 9, 3 (in that order) and then do 10 later in the week.

    One week from today I'll be at Stick & Rudder. Super pumped about that. Weather permitting I'll be doing a sunrise flight on the morning of the 23rd, which is bonus flying. And that afternoon I've arranged for a tour of the Kitfox factory.

    I'm arriving on the 19th and have some time to kill so I plan to also visit the Nampa Warhawks museum, home of some amazing P-40s and a P-51C
    IMG_20190629_085410-01.jpg
    No less than five P-40s attended this air show in Lewiston, a couple were from Planes of Fame and one (Suzy) is local to Lewiston. I showed up in a T-6 and didn't feel cool enough.

    Finalized my avionics order with MGL and have that placed. My dual MX1 EFIS/MFD displays with engine monitoring, single COM, magnetometer, EFIS extender (to allow more RS232 ports), harnesses and some of the engine probes came to $7109+state extortion fee. My Sandia Transponder with ADS-B in and out will be another $3k.

    Not bad for a complete VFR dual display panel with headless COM and TXP.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  8. #178
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Hey Alex, I 've got a buddy building a carbon cub and we are looking at options for his panel without the $25000 price tag . Does the 10 K for your MGL panel include all the stuff you need like engine probes, transducers etc . When pricing EFIS options it seems the hook is a good price for the display, but by the time you add up all the stuff to run the display the cost has just doubled. thanks Bruce N199CL

  9. #179
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by airlina View Post
    Hey Alex, I 've got a buddy building a carbon cub and we are looking at options for his panel without the $25000 price tag . Does the 10 K for your MGL panel include all the stuff you need like engine probes, transducers etc . When pricing EFIS options it seems the hook is a good price for the display, but by the time you add up all the stuff to run the display the cost has just doubled. thanks Bruce N199CL
    Bruce,
    I'm in a position to give specific answers since I have recent quotes in my hand.

    To add Engine management to the EFIS system begins (in the case of MGL) with the RDAC unit. I think there are a few flavors but I have the most expensive one, which is the RDAC "XF MAP - 12 channel" which is $375, and the harness for it which is $99. One of the selling points for me is the RDAC mounts on the forward side of the firewall with only one firewall penetration going to the #1 EFIS.

    The thermocouples for my particular quote are CHT for $35/ea and EGT for $50. I don't know if your friend's plans include fuel level or flow. I'll need to display fuel pressure but I don't know what that sensor costs yet.

    For most people installing conventional 4 or 6 cylinder engines the 12 channels of the RDAC unit allows for full EGT/CHT on all cylinders. You always get inputs for RPM, oil pressure, oil temperature and of course the "MAP" indicates that I'll have manifold pressure.
    RDAC XF MAP 12 channel.jpg
    You'll see there are inputs for fuel pressure, flow and quantity from two sources and complete control over the 12 channels. You get electrical current from the RDAC but voltage comes from the EFIS itself since it already monitors that for its own needs. That image is right out of the "simulator" software you use to edit or create custom screens for your setup with. You'll see the screw clamps for bare wire inputs which seems low brow but is ideal for a knuckle dragger garage mechanic like myself.

    Since I'm running a weirdo 7 cylinder engine I will use 7 channels of CHT and only single EGT (My engine manufacturer thinks single channel CHT is sufficient, so I'm going way overboard).

    They originally included a VDO oil pressure sender $60 and a sensor for either oil or coolant for $40. I had them leave those off for the time being because I don't know what specific things I need for my engine. But if you're using a 912 or conventional air cooled 4 cylinder they should be able to hook you right up.

    Now back to your original point about building a panel for under $25k. I looked at many options before selecting the MGL. When I looked into Garmin and Dynon I thought I could build an affordable panel. But even if you start with a single medium size display (8.5") and figure out what needs to plug into it, you can't get out the door for under $20k - and that doesn't really include the engine sensor package.

    For those seeking instrument capability, well you're going to spend quite a bit more but both of those two brands are a great start. For those of us flying VFR I just don't see the need to spend that much. I need altitude, airspeed, heading and engine instruments. And I need a moving map so I don't bust airspace.
    PXL_20210314_002136698.jpg
    The MX1 IEFIS displays have self contained air data, AHARS, GPS, AoA and autopilot capability. And since I have two of them I have redundancy which a single large display with split screen can't claim. Invisible to the end user, one of the displays is considered primary but if it were to fail it hands off command to the next display (you can have up to 8 displays).

    My $7109 includes the 760 channel COM radio with built in intercom (which monitors the standby frequency). This can be operated on the EFIS screen or I can install a COM head for not much extra.

    The EFIS screens are fully customizable by the user via the "simulator" software. It can show density altitude, pressure altitude, wind vector, various timers, an HSI, etc. If you want a heading tape it can display Magnetic, true or GPS heading.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  10. #180
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Alex , thanks for the thorough breakdown on the package you ordered. I found as you did that at first glance the competion looked reasonably priced but once you get into the nuts and bolts of everything that needs to be added on to make it work , sticker shock sets in. After reading your initial post , I went on the MGL website and built up a panel with two MX1 screens and and enough stuff for a great VFR panel with ADSB in/out and it came up to right around 10K. Very doable . I have some recent experience with MGL as I added a standalone EMS-2, 3 1/8" engine monitor last summer on my Series 5. Its been a great unit , affordable at 1200 bucks for everything required to make it work, great display and functionality and went in the same hole that the old westach instr. came out of. Just a heads up on the RDAC mounting-I know MGL says forward side of firewall is OK (which is where I installed it) but another user on this forum had heat issues with his in Arizona that caused false readings. I live in upstate NY wher I have not encountered this problem , but I still added a blast tube to the RDAC just in case . Might verify with tech support at MGL before your installation. You're doing a great job on your 5, and with the radial will surely be a head turner. Keep the videos coming. Bruce N199CL
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