Project 5 build thread

[airlina]

McMaster-Carr has them: https://www.mcmaster.com/adel-clamps...ainless-steel/

Eric ,Thanks for finding those , never thought of checking Mcmaster Carr , apreciate your time And Phil thanks for the tip , you know how I feel about the aluminum clamps, won't ever trust them agin in a critical location. Bruce N199CL

[jrevens]

Agreed, Bruce (& Phil). I mounted my ELT with SS “adel” type clamps that I fabricated myself. Also made them for multiple other places on my bird.

[alexM]

For anyone wanting to order Adel clamps and wondering what size, the tubes in the rear of the tail cone (at least on the series 5) are mostly 7/16" but there are a couple of 3/8" and the lower longerons on 1/2". I just ordered plenty of all sizes and will have extra so just speak up if you want me to mail you some.

After scratching my head about where my ELT was going to go this morning I bagged the idea of putting it behind the trim actuator, or anywhere in the vicinity. The access with the stab, elevator and push-pull tube installed is truly lousy. If I want to do those kinds of contortions I would buy an Italian car. And yes, I know I could add an access panel back there like others have done.

I'm not 100% solid yet, but as of right now I will be putting it behind the baggage compartment on the lower tubes of the fuselage. By keeping it inboard towards the rudder cables I have space for the Adel clamps to wrap around the tubing but not touch the fabric (90% sure anyway)
PXL_20220603_171645448.jpg
Just posing here, not final decision. That tray for the Artex 345 has enough holes I think I'll be able to mount it directly to the fuselage with the Adel clamps. Access won't be super convenient but doable for condition inspections. And while I used the regular Adel (MS21919 WDG) clamps for my avionics plate, I fully agree with the others that the ELT needs to be very securely located with the stainless ones that Eric found on McMaster Carr.

My avionics plate is very light. If forces are high enough to break it loose I will never know about it. The ELT has a lot more mass to restrain and could pose much more risk to the people on board if it keeps going while the rest of the plane stops. F=mA and all that.

PXL_20220603_170627128.jpg
During my last visit to the hangar I copied some of the other builders on this forum and created another paper doll mock up to mount GPS antennae on, up near the top of the baggage compartment and off to the side. I really wish there was a way to consolidate the number of GPS antennae but apparently I'm the only person who thinks so. It seems odd to me to build a two seat experimental VFR plane and have it look like an airborne command center.

Each of my EFIS/EIS displays has its own GPS bump. My Echo UAT has another. My ELT wants GPS position, which I'm hoping to pull from the Echo UAT. Not sure if that is possible yet. If it isn't then I have to add yet another precision GPS antenna. I'm puzzled why a 406 ELT (or ADS-B for that matter) needs location more precise than my EFIS has. I guess you wouldn't want rescue crews showing up 25' away from your crash site and being unable to figure out which wreck was yours.

I've resigned myself to just putting the MGL bumps on the glare shield. They have a clear view of the sky and are located very near the EFIS/EIS displays. At that point my new shelf would only mount one GPS antenna,which seemed like a waste. Then I realized that my turtle deck is the aluminum style with a cutout in it, which would tend to block the clear view of the sky in the location I chose. My attempt to upgrade my turtle deck to the big one piece bubble type was only partially successful. I got my bubble but it was still the type that fills the hole in the aluminum piece, and I don't feel like "investing" more money into it.

So now I'm looking at two different places. One is in the monkey bars above the occupants and the other is on my boot cowl, right on the centerline.
PXL_20220603_171702402.jpg
PXL_20220603_172034173.jpg

[Eric Page]

I just ordered plenty of all sizes and will have extra so just speak up if you want me to mail you some.

I'd buy four of those SS Adel clamps, if you wouldn't mind setting them aside for me. My ELT is presently mounted with the aluminum kind. It never occurred to me that that wouldn't be bueno.

---

I really wish there was a way to consolidate the number of GPS antennae but apparently I'm the only person who thinks so.

I'm sure you've pored over the MX1 manuals at length and I've only given them a cursory browse, so please forgive me if I'm talking garbage, but...

It appears that you only need one antenna for your two screens. The installation manual says the displays can be configured to output NMEA sentences on one of their RS-232 ports, and can also be configured to use an external NMEA source for position. If I'm reading that correctly, it sounds like you could connect an antenna to one of the screens, configure one of its RS-232 ports to output NMEA, then configure the other screen to use the first screen's output for its own position. That NMEA data could also be wired to the ELT's position input. This would reduce your antenna count from four to two.

I also read something about the iBox having its own GPS engine, so if you're using one of those, perhaps it can do the math and output NMEA to other LRUs.

From the MGL iEFIS GPS Manual: "The iEFIS contains multi source GPS functionality with a priority scheme selecting the best possible GPS solution. In addition, it provides two independent GPS data channels, one of which is dedicated to ADSB transmissions as well as transponder mode-S extended squitters."

If that doesn't mean that an MGL source can be used for ADS-B out, then I guess it only reduces your antenna count to three.

[airlina]

To give an example of why I no longer consider standard adels as bueno for securing critical or heavy items in your plane- search for this old thread where I had a scary experience with my battery tray. The threads title is " SS with Continental engine battery placement" and look for a reply from airlina with some grainy photos of the incident. As an aside can someone explain how to move an old post to a new thread . i have found several times a need to do this and can't figure out a way, thanks Bruce N199CL

[n85ae]

Hey Bruce - You can find Stainless Adel's at most Marine/Boat shops.

Jeff

[alexM]

Eric,
I'll have those stainless Adel clamps for you next time I see you. Let me know which fuselage tubes you're attaching to so I can set aside the correct sizes.

You are correct about the MX1 displays, however there is a "yes, but". Up to 8 MX1 displays can be chained together but one has to be declared the master and the others declared 2,3,4, etc. If the master display should fail, the role of master is passed to display 2 (and so forth). If the GPS antenna is only hooked to display 1, and that LRU fails then GPS position data will not be passed to display 2. The same would be true if I only hooked pitot, static and AoA tubing to the master display. The second display would have the EFIS attitude but position, moving map, along with airspeed and altitude tapes would each get a red X across them. No bueno.

Hooking it up the way MGL suggested, the worst thing that would happen to me is that one display would go dark. In normal operation display 2 will ignore the GPS and air data sent to it, and "listen" to the master display for all information. When display 1 dies it switches instantly to its own sources. This also works in reverse. If I enter a radio frequency into display 2, it is wired in parallel to display 1 but does not send the signal to the COM radio to switch frequencies. It sends it to the master display which sends it to the COM radio. But again if the master fails then display 2 steps up to the plate.

The MX1 displays don't use the iBox, they use the EFIS Extender which does not have its own GPS. And it actually might be possible to fake my way through with an NMEA signal from the MX1 but Adam from MGL told me that I would need the SP-12 GPS unit to supply precise GPS location to the transponder (and 406 ELT). I get to skip that with the Echo UAT so again, that's where I'm hoping to pull NMEA from the UAT send it to the ELT.

[Eric Page]

Let me know which fuselage tubes you're attaching to so I can set aside the correct sizes.

Thanks. It's the tubes on the "floor" of the aft fuselage, on the right side (looking forward), where seven or eight tubes come together. I'm in a hotel room in Orlando at the moment; I'll measure them when I get home.

You are correct about the MX1 displays, however there is a "yes, but".

Well, poop. I had a feeling there'd be a "but" somewhere. Sounds like it would work, but only until it didn't. I guess as the installer you have to decide if losing GPS position is acceptable, and if not, make your antennae redundant.

I was feeling a bit smug about only having to install one ADS-B compliant antenna (actually a complete receiver; it spits out serial data) for all LRUs, but if that antenna dies, I lose everything. Oh well, it is just a VFR airplane, and I do plan to carry an iPad.

Adam from MGL told me that I would need the SP-12 GPS unit to supply precise GPS location to the transponder (and 406 ELT). I get to skip that with the Echo UAT so again, that's where I'm hoping to pull NMEA from the UAT send it to the ELT.

I presume that you're using the μAvionix SkyFYX as a position source for the echoUAT. It looks like the SkyFYX outputs NMEA on its COM1 (pin 3), so it should be able to feed position to your ELT as well. So says the guy who's done exactly zero such installations...

[jrevens]

Eric,

I have an Echo and SkyFYX, and it feeds the NMEA data to my iFly 740 as well as my ELT. It works fine.

[Eric Page]

Excellent; thanks, John.

Alex, how about distributing position data like this:

LRU	Primary Source	Secondary Source
MX1 #1	MGL Antenna	skyFYX NMEA
MX1 #2	skyFYX NMEA	MX1 #1 NMEA
echoUAT	skyFYX NMEA	n/a
STX165R	skyFYX NMEA	n/a
ELT	skyFYX NMEA	n/a

- Both MX1s have two independent sources
- Transponder, ADS-B and ELT are fed from an FAA-compliant source
- You only have to install two antennas