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Thread: Project 5 build thread

  1. #111
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rv9ralph View Post
    You definitely went the full measure to alodine the parts. One method of soaking the parts is to fabricate a trough by laying 2 pieces of lumber (your choice) a few inches apart blocking the ends with a couple more blocks of wood, then covering with plastic to create a trough, then fill with the chemicals. Another method is to spray the Alodine onto the material, keeping it wet until it has done its work, then rinsing. To dry, blow off with compressed air.

    To prep the material, you can clean with alumaprep, scrubbing by hand with scotch brite. Instead of using an orbital sander, get a pneumatic angle grinder with a 3" rolo disc mandrel. Use rolo disc scotch write pads to do the work.

    Ralph
    Another good option is an appropriate length of PVC pipe with a cap glued on one end. Insert parts and Alodine, cap the open end, hold a rag over the cap to catch dribbles, and commence sloshing.
    I did consider making a trough and also the PVC pipe idea (which I plan to use for my spars). It occurred to me that I know about the PVC trick but I'm not positive there is no chemical reaction issues with the PVC, and I should probably make some tests, certainly before I dip my spars.

    Door angle day
    I've been needing to set aside a few hours to bond and rivet my door angles and side stringers. I started the other day but got hung up on making sure the side stringer prep was complete.

    This afternoon I finally took the plunge. I prepped surfaces with an alcohol wipe down, Cleco'd all the parts in place and clamped where necessary (mostly the piece along the bottom edge of the door). I went through both the series 5 and 7 manuals to get my rivets ready. My Milwaukee rivet gun worked perfectly.

    I mixed up 120 grams of Hysol and got to work. Having both sides assembled and clamped for best orientation was very helpful in the heat of putting gooey parts together. I could refer to the other side and know right were to put it all back together. Saved me more than once. I loaded up one of my fat syringes and reloaded it when I switched to the other side of the plane.

    I learned right away on the overlapping parts that once the Hysol squeezed through the hole it was a challenge getting the Cleco back in, but it all came together.
    For the corner where forward end of the side stringer tucks behind the door angles I started with the stringers Cleco'd only at the 2nd hole from the front, with the aft end supported part way out the horizontal stab braces. That way they put no outward load on the door angles, making part alignment easier.

    Once both sides were glued and re-Cleco'd I retured with the rivets. I pulled each Cleco, wiped it with an alcohol rag and dropped it in a cup of acetone, then "shot" the rivets one at a time. One rivet on the right side didn't draw the parts together very well, so I scrambled to drill that one out and do it over.

    I didn't know if I would have enough time and/or Hysol to get to the side stringers but I did. They went pretty quickly as it turned out.

    When all the rivets were in place I cleaned up the squeeze out, then came back with the rest of the syringe and filled in some of the gaps. I had to set up a few heat sources in my cold garage to make sure I was at least in the 70 F range, then I cleaned up my Clecos.
    PXL_20201126_041518536.jpg
    PXL_20201126_021903674.jpg
    The rope was used to pull the two stringers together once I riveted them along the sides of the fuselage. The preload they put on the door angles pushes a gap I didn't want to fill later. I'm quite sure it will be rock solid once the Hysol kicks off.
    The short pieces of pool noodle visible at the back corner of the side windows pushes the lower angles outward, leaving the gap I'll need for those side windows.

    PXL_20201126_021857407.jpg
    PXL_20201126_041621059.jpg
    I'm keeping it semi warm in my garage so the Hysol cures as needed. Tomorrow I should have time to spread some Superfil, and possibly get the bottom stringer in place.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  2. #112
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Man, I wish mine looked that nice, but I don't wish it enough to remove them and start over. I'm thankful that they'll be covered!
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  3. #113
    Senior Member bbs428's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    That's some nice work Alex.
    Somebody said that carrier pilots were the best in the world, and they must be or there wouldn't be any of them left alive. — Ernie Pyle

    Brett Butler
    Flying: 1998 Model 5 Outback, 912ul Zipper 110hp, G3x avionics, ss7 upgrades

  4. #114
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Not much in the way of pictures from my 4 day weekend but I did get some work done. I used Superfil around the door angle intersections and sanded it back down. Of course doing that messed up my beautiful Alodine work, but I was able to touch up the Alodine acceptably so at least I know it will be protected under the fabric.

    We were cursed with unusually clear blue sky so I set my tools down and flew my Citabria for about 2.5 hours. I'm going to miss that plane when I sell it. It pays its own way in my life but I only have one hangar, and I'm sure everyone out there knows that hangar space is at a premium these days.

    I thought I was ready to varnish my ribs in the vertical fin but found a couple of places that needed fine tuning. In the typical "oh, I could be working on that instead" approach, I returned my attention to the rudder cables. I followed the suggestions of user jtpitkin in posts #47 and #49 in the Helpful Hints thread regarding how to measure and cut the cables, and also the logic of cutting them prior to fabric covering. I swaged and applied heat shrink to the aft ends and then the right side cables where they splice in the tail cone. His instructions worked great, and while there's not much to take a picture of, I was able to sit in my plane last night and operate the rudder pedals. Seeing them move (correctly!) was a good feeling. I still need to cut off the excess cable but that won't take long.

    I need to fine tune my Hysol/Superfil work on the tail surface end caps, apply epoxy varnish of course, complete the install of the belly stringer, set my rudder center hinge and then the fuselage is sort of ready for cover. Actually, I just remembered that I need to install my forward bulkhead in the tail section and address the rest of the aluminum angles which serve to mount the access panel covers. That will take a while but the hard work is done.

    Last night I held the parts in my hands for the stab trim system. I have to run wires for the trim motor and I also have to do my trim indicator. The original builder ordered digital trim indicator instead of the mechanical cable operated system. I have a length of wire, the stab trim device (transducer? Potentiometer? Thingy?) but I need to figure out the wiring. I have not found the actual LED indicator so I have come to the conclusion that the original builder envisioned having stab trim show up on an EFIS. My panel is still very much TBD but I'm likely to install a Ray Allen LED unit on the center console in the location intended for the mechanical indicator. I have the rocker switch which installs there and my control sticks have hat switches too. I did find a Ray Allen speed controller in my parts pile and now understand what it's for.

    Before I whip out the Oratex I need to work out my ELT, COM antenna, etc. Good times.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  5. #115
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Still chipping away at fuselage details. A few nights ago I set up my stab trim jack screw per the manual, and then I had my son help me rig the elevator. Wow do I love digital protractors! We got it dialed within 0.1 degrees of the -20/+39 in no time.

    Mid week I got a text from Nate, the builder/pilot of a SS7 with Aeromomentum (Suzuki car engine) power plant. He was looking for a chunk of grass nearby. I made a few suggestions and then made the mistake of looking outside. It was severe clear and cold. So I informed Nate that I had GoPro mounts on my Citabria and that I might be able to skip out of work for a two-ship flight to some grass.

    PXL_20201202_190613395.jpg
    A quick cell phone pic while climbing out of Tacoma. McNeil Island in the foreground, Anderson beyond and Olympia in the distance.

    We met by the gas pumps at 10am and went flying. I only had the time to charge one camera and if there is anything in my life that conforms to the "two is one and one is none" theory it is cameras. I forgot to turn the thing on for the leg to SHN, got quite a bit of footage of us standing by the planes talking and very little formation footage. The leg back home was perfect lighting and I stuck to his 4 O'clock for what would have been fantastic video but the SD card had filled up about the time we departed Shelton.

    We arrived to a very busy pattern at Tacoma and had to do a 360 prior to entering midfield right downwind, where we landed as a two ship. Both of us agreed the whole flight was a lot of fun.

    Nate is patient zero for the Aeromomentum installation and has had great support while working out the details. I don't know all of it but he is running a completely different oil cooler and radiator installation from when he first flew the plane. As you can see in the picture he still needs to create a cowl (winter project). For the curious, his rear inspection covers are not missing. He made them out of Lexan for easy preflight inspection.

    Today is my day off and is also severe clear and cold. Good chance I'm going to fly instead of build.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  6. #116
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    All the work Eric is doing on his Barn Find are making me feel like I'm not getting anything done. I have blown through my early December goal of having the fuselage ready (enough) to cover so I could start on my wings. Time to get a move on.

    Last night I brushed the first coat of epoxy varnish on the vertical fin ribs. I read up very carefully about mixing the resin and catalyst, letting it cook (the EAA article said 45 minutes or even an hour especially if it's humid), filtering, reducing, etc.

    Then, like a complete dumb ass I promptly mixed up two parts of reducer and 1 part catalyst. Gotta read those darn labels apparently. Thankfully I read someone else's post here a while back that mentioned it was basically the same as epoxy primer, and I noticed it didn't smell "hot" enough. I figured out the mistake (ie, reading is fundamental) and started over with better organization.

    I had read about others finding drips when it was all done. So I started on the top rib and worked my way down, using an old towel draped across the rib under it (and therefore all the other ribs below) I varnished the underside and then the top side, then back under to mitigate pending drips. I caught several drips in the towel that way and only had a few when all was said and done.

    Because it was both cold and humid I had let the catalyzed varnish cook for the full hour. I could tell towards the end that it was beginning to thicken, so next time I'll only let it cook for 45 minutes. I did get it all done while it still brushed on thin and flowed well. The EAA article says to wait two days, sand it and make the second coat. Today it was still slightly tacky in places so that's probably great advice. Rushing it would just make a sticky mess and waste sandpaper.

    I forgot to mention that I removed the tail surfaces last night. It provided much better access to the rest of the ribs below the horizontal stab, and removing them was on the list anyway. I also needed to complete the body/fender work up top, at the gap between the vertical fin and the rudder.
    PXL_20201212_230513002.jpg
    Today I took the horizontal stab and elevator out in bright sunlight on my saw horses and sanded the balsa/Superfil to transform from crude to rough shape. It was obvious it would need another layer of Smurf poo so I mixed up a small batch and slathered it on. That has to cure for a day before I can shape it. I expect it to be pretty close but not flawless at that point. The outer layer will be Hysol, and then finish sanded.

    It was about that time I realized that I blew the sequence. I had put varnish on the rib which serves as the top of the access panels, but I had not yet bonded/riveted the angle which I had so carefully prepared. Since I have to sand before the next coat of varnish anyway, I'll just sand real well and bond/rivet.

    I had fitted the bulkhead piece but had not yet created the angles for the forward edge or the short pieces at the lower rear corner. So today's attention was making those angles and fit/drill/cleco them.
    PXL_20201212_230521581.jpg
    PXL_20201213_015319713.jpg
    Anyone who has read the manual knows that access is expected to be difficult at the forward end of the longest rib, and at the top of that bulkhead. I positioned the rivets on the bulkhead angles for best advantage when it comes time to pop those rivets.
    I was pleasantly surprised to find that the bulkhead could not only be inserted with angles pre-riveted - it actually slips in place even with Clecos installed!

    I realized that drilling those short angles for the aft lower corner would have been smart to do on the bench, like everything else. Well that ship sailed. To drill the holes would require a 90 degree drill, and I didn't own one. So before dinner I ran down and did the Tim Allen Binford 9000 thing and bought a Milwaukee angle drill. I checked before dinner and it will work perfectly for the job.

    In the next hour or so I have a batch of aluminum parts prepped for etch and alodine. Tomorrow I should be able to sand the first coat of varnish and get all this installed.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  7. #117
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alexM View Post
    All the work Eric is doing on his Barn Find are making me feel like I'm not getting anything done.
    Ha! Why do you think I've been working so feverishly lately? Go ahead, motivate me some more!
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  8. #118
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    You might say that this is yet another benefit of this forum. Brian and Carl were my motivators since the three of us were pretty close to one another on our builds. I had spells when I didn't get anything done and I always had those two in mind. Mike Patey would say, "Let's Get Back To Work!". I say "Damn, I haven't done S--- for awhile. I can't let them finish first".
    Eddie Forward
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    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

  9. #119
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    I started today by sanding the smurf poo on the tips of the tail surfaces. Then I set them aside until after I had some Hysol mixed up to smear on the surfaces. But that would be several hours away.
    Next I sanded the varnished ribs to prepare them for their second coat, then went over everything a tack cloth and cleaned it well.
    My youngest kid came over so I taught him to clean, etch and alodine some parts. We did the angles for the stab access cover and I threw in the lids for the seat storage compartments too.
    PXL_20201214_020519778.jpg
    One of the loose ends (literally) I needed to take care of was the cutting of the excess rudder cables. Before I could do that I would need to revisit my swages in four locations. I had only made a single crimp before incorporating the heat shrink tubing, only to later read (in the series 7 manual) that I would need to crimp in three locations. So while #3 was timing the chemical application I cut the old heat shrink off and performed the remaining crimp operations. I was able to slide new heat shrink over the cable ends where they will be visible, and resorted to silicone "rescue tape" for the places where the right side cables splice in.
    PXL_20201214_021232673.jpg
    The big job for the afternoon was mixing up a good size batch (80 grams) of Hysol and putting it to work. I began with the angles held in place with Clecos and rivets at hand. Syringe gravid with Hysol I started on one of the shortest angles. My very first rivet didn't pull cleanly and I struggled to even get one more in correctly. Wouldn't you know it? I could get a Cleco in the hole but couldn't get a rivet all the way through to save my life.
    I burned some valuable time sorting that one out and worried that it would set the tone for every other rivet I would need to pull. Thankfully I got my rhythm down and managed to get the two shortest ones, the two longest ones fully bonded/riveted and the bare forward bulkhead bonded in place.
    I had some areas in the fairing for the vertical stab that needed some gap filling and then I used the rest of it to coat the ends of the horizontal stab/elevator just as I ran out of Hysol and it starting to get thick both at the same time.
    PXL_20201214_034707683.jpg
    A question for the gallery: Does anyone do anything to mitigate water collecting in the bottom of the fuselage in the very back? My plane will be hangared of course but it will go on trips and it will get rained on. Some of the small gaps I filled today in the vertical stab would likely have let water in and I tried to imagine its path to the tail post. Just curious what others have done.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  10. #120
    Senior Member 109JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project 5 build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alexM View Post
    A question for the gallery: Does anyone do anything to mitigate water collecting in the bottom of the fuselage in the very back? My plane will be hangared of course but it will go on trips and it will get rained on. Some of the small gaps I filled today in the vertical stab would likely have let water in and I tried to imagine its path to the tail post. Just curious what others have done.
    You mean drain grommets? The water will get in but the drain grommets will let it out
    John Brannen
    Morris, IL
    Sonerai IIL (Single Seat)
    Kitfox 3/4 1050 - Rotax 582 (Back Flying and sold)
    Kitfox IV 1050 - Rotax 582 (sold)
    Kitfox IV 1200 Speedster - Rotax 912 UL (project)
    Piper Twin Comanche (Sold)
    Glasair 1 FT (Waiting to start)

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