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Thread: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    Last night I did my dash fabric for the second time. I ruined it the first time damaging the fabric on the door tab. Two hours just to clean off the glue. I'm using a green ribbon el for panel lighting.

    Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
    912 IS
    Airmaster Prop
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  2. #42

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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    I am looking for advice. I am a newbie, not only to Kitfox but I have never posted to a forum before. During the mid 1990s, my father bought a Speedster. I think it is a Mark IV, but it is rated for acrobatics. We never got an engine. We put the wings together and then life happened. I had kids, got a divorce and worked a lot. Also the 9/11 incident took the breath out of my aviation ambition and I sold my Beechcraft Sundowner. Now retirement and covid has reignited a spark. Also my 23 year old son has expressed an interest in getting the airplane built. At 63, I retired 5 years ago. I traveled a lot in foreign countries. 2 years ago, I started learning Spanish, but I need another hobby. I cannot find the manual, but I probably should buy a new one since the old one is 25 years old. The manual may be at my dad's house, and he will look for it next week. Obviously the power coated parts are still good, but mice have invaded a few of the boxes, and I will need parts. Also when I finish the plane and put on an engine, I will need some instruction. I definitely have the money, but I am curious how much the project could cost including flight instruction. I have never flown a tail dragger, and my son has never been in a private airplane except my Beechcraft when he was a baby. Is there anyone here who might shed some light on really rough financial costs? I am very skilled as a carpenter, plumber, electrician, and a decent auto mechanic. Also if anyone has advice on the manual, or where I should post forums I would appreciate it. I don't know if I am putting this post in the right place. This is my first time to look at Kitfox in more than 20 years. I do not know any Kitfox owners, but I would like to talk to owners at some point.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Eric Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    Welcome, Bob! I recently bought an abandoned Kitfox Series 5, and like you, I found that I'm missing a number of parts and pieces, as well as the assembly manual. I'm not sure about the Model 4, but Kitfox still sells the manual for mine; I was able to get it as a large PDF on a USB thumb drive. They also still offer parts, but there's a lot more commonality between the Series 5 and current-production Series 7s than there is between the 4 and 7, so your mileage may vary.

    Both Heather and Debra in the Kitfox offices are very helpful and responsive, so give them a call and discuss your situation; they'll help as much as they can. If you can find the inventory from the original kit, and compare it to your current holdings, it will help a lot in determining what to ask them for. If your inventory is missing, you might find a forum member willing to send you a copy; I got one for my plane that way (thanks, Fred!).

    I'm expecting my all-in assembly cost to be around $75k, but I had to buy the kit from its first owner. A great many Kitfoxes are tipping the scales at well over $100k these days, so I consider that a bargain. A lot of the cost depends on your choices for engine and avionics. My panel will eat a quarter of that budget. If you prefer a more modest panel, your cost will be lower.

    I don't own one, but my understanding is that the Model 4 flies nicely on a Rotax 582. For more oomph, a used 912UL would be an economical upgrade. Someone who owns one can offer more specific advice on what engines mate well to the Model 4.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  4. #44
    Senior Member Maverick's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    Welcome Bob. There are those of us that try to get it done on the cheap. I have $46,700 invested in my KF5. Allot of the cost of most Kitfoxes besides the initial kit is in the engine choice and Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS), and/or an Engine Information System (EIS), and Avionics. Like Eric, I lucked into an abandoned kit for $8750. I went with a used engine w/800 hrs on it, a Grand Rapids EIS and used steam gauges. Avionics are modest, a new GTR200, a used GTX327,uAvionics Echo UAT, Area660 GPS. I bought other things off other members of TeamKitfox like strobe lights, landing lights, etc. I got many parts from Kitfox, Inc. As Eric said, Heather and Debra are great. If you ever go see them, take some Snickers. Likely, they have the KF4 as a PDF but, I don't know that they do however, this is the right place to get help and surely someone out there has an inventory list.

    Given your skills and apparent time to work on it, there is nothing on the Kitfox that you could not make yourself if you had to. The advantage of the kit is time to build but, having built a couple of planes from scratch, it just takes the desire, time and, effort to make what you need. Although, there are so many KF4s out there you shouldn't have to make anything.

    Flight instruction is going to vary on a lot of things, i.e. what the local CFIs are charging. I paid $60/hr last week to get current and do the flight review. We used a Remose Light Sport plane that was $120/hr. I have no idea what the going rate might be elsewhere but the school that I used had a private pilot package for $13,500 and a Light Sport pilot for $9,500. Good luck.
    Fred

    P.S. Eric, you're most welcome.
    EAA, AOPA
    KF5 (N49FK & N36KJ)
    Phoenix, AZ

  5. #45

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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    Thank you Eric and Fred. I remember when we bought the kit, it costs $10,000, and the engine was supposed to cost about the same. If I took on this project, I figured that with inflation, I would have a VFR plane for less than $40,000, and it might be a good project to do with my son. However when researching what a kitfox is worth, I saw a fairly new completed Kitfox 4 sold on ebay recently for $37,000 and one sale from about 10 years back for $25,000. I am used to making money when I build things, and although I didn't expect to make money building airplanes, I worry that I could invest a year of time, $40,000, and end up with something worth half of what I have in it. That sounds as bad as antique car restoration. I need to consider buying an airplane if that is less time and more value. I don't want to start building a kitfox just because I have the kit, but I need another hobby. My main hobby was international travel, but that got shut down with covid. I appreciate your insight into costs, and I need to think this over carefully.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Maverick's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    Your approach to spending your dime is one way of looking at it. I go fishing in Alaska every year or two. The amount of fish I bring back means that my salmon costs about $45 a pound and halibut costs near $55. I could buy it a lot cheaper but, I'd miss the experience of fishing. I'd miss the fellowship of spending 9 days with good friends from around the country. Consider that you said you wanted a hobby and something to do with your son.

    Building an airplane is either because you love to build OR you love to fly and want to keep the cost of flying as cheap as you can OR both. For those who just want to fly there are less expensive airplanes available than building new however, the building process is not experienced in that way. Building an airplane yourself and then flying it are very rewarding experiences for which one may find it difficult to put a price on. Especially those hours spent working with your son on the project. When you build it yourself, you build it to your liking as a custom one of kind version of a standardized kit/plans.

    If you goal is to make money, remember that there is a cost to an airplane regardless of who built it. Unless you build something that is potentially a grand champion you may not get your cash investment back but at the same time, if you can fly that airplane for 500 hours at 1/3rd the cost of renting, you've recovered some of the cost of your build. And then, there is the father to son factor. At your point in life, you may not ever sell the airplane. It may be passed down to your son, particularly if he is involved in building it and is enamored with flying it. In the cost benefit analysis, don't leave out the intangibles. As a woman would say (don't hit me ladies) can you put a price on love?

    I haven't met anyone that owned a Kitfox that wasn't enamored with it. A Kitfox is one of the most modern old school airplanes there are and flying one is worth every cent of the cost. There aren't too many airplanes that will, get up and down in length of a football field, climb like a homesick angel and, carry a significant payload at 5gals/hr at 100+mph. If you want to get jazzed, watch some of the YouTube videos on the Kitfox like the Trent Palmer Kitfox Videos. DesertFox4 has some good ones I like here in the desert.

    Also, I want to address your concerns about it being a tail dragger. If you haven't progressed too far in the build, it is possible to make your airframe into a tricycle gear plane. As well, you can make it into a wide body adding about four more inches in cabin width. Don't think I'm trying to talk you into something you don't want to do but, don't abandon the idea until you've considered more than $$. If you do decide to abandon the idea, this is a great place to find a buyer for your project.

    Regards,
    Fred
    EAA, AOPA
    KF5 (N49FK & N36KJ)
    Phoenix, AZ

  7. #47
    Senior Member PapuaPilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    Well said Fred 👍
    Phil Nelson
    A&P-IA, Maintenance Instructor
    KF 5 Outback, Cont. IO-240
    Flying since 2016

  8. #48
    Super Moderator desertdave's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    I made new cushions for the plane today. My original were 1" thick and not very supportive. There are 2" thick and I made 1" booster for my height challenged daughter. I have never attempted anything like this before and as work progressed the quality definitely improved. I ordered the foam and the Ultra Suede from https://www.fabricempire.com Shipping was fast and the quality was good. The thread I bought off of Amazon and sewed it all up with our 35 year old cheapy sewing machine.
    Learning to do the pleats and the diamonds was kind of fun. I'm restoring a 61 VW Beetle and after this project I feel comfortable enough to do a custom interior myself.

    IMG_0204.jpg
    IMG_0205.jpg
    Dave
    KitFox 6 Taildragger
    912 ULS
    Whirlwind 70” Prop
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    All around nice guy

  9. #49

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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox? Prepping wings for new tanks

    Vixen build.

    Spent time today removing old Hysol from false ribs. Not that exciting, but you asked!

  10. #50

    Join Date
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    Default Re: What Have You Done Today To Your Kitfox?

    Vixen Build.

    Removed 3M adhesive from the nose of the tip rib on the right wing. This joint was loose and needed to be re-bonded. Used a hot knife from Northern Tool to carefully - am I allowed to say "surgically?" - remove the compromised adhesive. Pics attached.

    Not that interesting but maybe someone will find it interesting or useful.

    IMG_1194.jpg

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