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Thread: Backup instruments

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Westfield, IN
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    86

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    I am following what all the others said.

    If I was forced to the next step, I would do a G5.

    With all that said, I guess if it helps you sleep better put a couple of steam gauges in. I'll spend that money on beer (and tacos).

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Oak Harbor,Wa
    Posts
    155

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    My SS7 with Rotax 912iS has one characteristic that after 280 hr. of flight time has demonstrated one issue that prompted me to install one back up device. The engine will overspeed in a heart beat ( 5800 is max RPM). That coupled with a Rotax operating parameter that max continuous cruise rpm is limited to 5500 RPM, caused me to install an optical prop RPM sensor with a table converting prop RPM to engine RPM. I agree that any pilot should be able to fly an aircraft VFR with no instruments. But with the normal high engine RPM it is difficult to judge engine speed by sound alone.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Western Australian
    Posts
    218

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    I wish I'd known now what I thought I knew a couple of years ago. Back then I was going to kit build my Eurofox under LAA regulations. This requires backup instruments and, if you're going to use electronic backup instruments, they have to have their own backup power. With this in mind I bought the Funke BFI57. It's a great bit of kit for getting you on the ground very safely and can easily be used as a primary instrument for a microlight etc. As it was, I ended up going down the 'microlight' route in order that my aircraft could be factory-built (in the UK). There is no requirement for backup instruments in this case. If I knew I'd have been doing that in the first place I would have had a 10" EFIS and that would have been it. Like others have stated, it is not difficult to safely fly a light aircraft such as the Eurofox/Kitfox by looking out of the window.

    Learn from my mistakes and don't buy your avionics too early. I have so many redundant (expensive) parts now that it is silly; all because I'm impatient and like to get gadgets immediately I see them. Sit on your hands and wait until the last minute so you can see what you REALLY want and can get the latest, greatest and (maybe) cheapest nearer the time you need them.

    It's a good bit of kit but expensive and (unfortunately) a bit surplus to requirements. I've got the hole in the panel now so it will be fitted

    https://funkeavionics.de/en/products/displays/bfi57

  4. #14
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    felts field, spokane
    Posts
    1,208

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by desertdave View Post
    23,000 hour airline guy here. My Kitfox has very basic VFR instruments and it is more than what I need. Honestly, a compass, airspeed indicator and an altimeter will get you anywhere with a paper map. An iPad and Foreflight will more than get you anywhere and spoon feed you every bit of information you would ever require. No Kitfox has deicing capability so why would you even think about putting yourself in that type of situation. and Iced up wing on a 750ish pound airplane would turn into an NTSB hearing in a New York minute.
    Save your money and save the weight. Use your iPad and think of all the beer you could buy with that backup instrumentation money.
    maybe not beer, but for sure fuel for my next flight. . I have no plans to use an efis on my kitfox. will always have steam. basic mind you. I agree all way on, "why would you want to fly into icing conditions with a kitfox", so true. On my RV I have a dynon d180 although a very good system, it does have it's problem, I also have an altitude, airspeed on steam and I have a rpm gauge (constant speed prop) . One of my problems is when it is real cold like 5 degrees the dynon won't fire up. I haven't called dynon on this for I don't fly very much when it's that cold. but because I have the important gauges in steam, I just go fly, a few minutes with good heat in the plane the dynon fires up. I always have in the back of my mind someday the whole system is going to fail inflight, my thought, who cares, I can still fly the plane. One last note, maybe I'm old school, but take off and landing is always by the dial. In other words my eyes go right to the steam gauges.
    steve
    slyfox
    model IV 1200-flying
    912uls
    IVO medium in-flight
    RV7A-flying
    IO-360
    constant speed prop

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Mapleton,UT
    Posts
    527

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    Steve I used to think the same way. Steam gauges you can tell your speed without even looking at them based on location of the needle using your peripheral vision. Then I started flying glass and never looked back. Of course that is applies to IFR flying as your scan is reduced and more information compacted in front of you. VFR flying I still like glass but not as easy to tell airspeed looking out the window using just peripheral vision. Of course I am really liking the garmin AOA and just having the noise is super helpful. On final I am not looking at airpeed but listening to it. Of course when I get more time I will be able to feel it better and not listen or look. These kitfox still make me cringe on final as I feel like I am almost going backwards they are so slow.
    Dustin Dickerson

    Building 7ss STI x 2
    Oratex
    29" shock monster
    EP912STI 155hp
    Garmin
    N33TF......FLYING!
    N53TF......Building

  6. #16
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    felts field, spokane
    Posts
    1,208

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowrider View Post
    Steve I used to think the same way. Steam gauges you can tell your speed without even looking at them based on location of the needle using your peripheral vision. Then I started flying glass and never looked back. Of course that is applies to IFR flying as your scan is reduced and more information compacted in front of you. VFR flying I still like glass but not as easy to tell airspeed looking out the window using just peripheral vision. Of course I am really liking the garmin AOA and just having the noise is super helpful. On final I am not looking at airpeed but listening to it. Of course when I get more time I will be able to feel it better and not listen or look. These kitfox still make me cringe on final as I feel like I am almost going backwards they are so slow.
    once I'm flying along my attention in the rv goes right to the efis and the 696. so yes I see where you are coming from. in the kitfox, right out the window and stays there until I go to land.
    steve
    slyfox
    model IV 1200-flying
    912uls
    IVO medium in-flight
    RV7A-flying
    IO-360
    constant speed prop

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Morris, IL
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    Steam gauges are absolutely fine, but with EFIS you can get a lot of benefits.

    1. Even though I don't consider a Kitfox an good IFR platform, an EFIS would be fantastic to have in case of an inadvertent IMC encounter.
    2. A small EFIS is likely less weight than steam gauges depending on how many it replaces.
    3. Some small EFIS systems are easier to connect than even steam gauges requiring only one static, one pitot, and a dc power connection.
    4. An EFIS can take up less panel space leaving room for say a tablet running a moving map display and ADS-B in.
    5. Some EFIS systems can also have the engine instruments incorporated.

    I'm actually thinking about replacing my "steam" gauges in my Kitfox IV with a G5X.
    John Brannen
    Morris, IL
    Kitfox IV 1050 - Rotax 582

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Weatherford Texas.
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    Thanks for all the info, couldn't respond sooner dw and I are on a cruise in Mexico. I wasn't so concerned about flying Imc as I was just an electrical or display failure. But If they are as reliable as everyone says I guess it's a non issue. Now to hijack my own thread, and just thinking ahead, what did you all do for painting or if you sprayed poly brush. Did you rent a spray booth or just plastic off your shop. That is several years out at my rate and working alone. I'll probably order a 7ss as soon as we get home. Can't wait to get flying again, it's been 30 years due to work and family obligations, we are now retired so time to start again. This will be my secons EAB, dad and I built an all metal Pazmany pl4. Which I never got to fly dad sold it with out letting me know.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Hawkertech; 11-27-2019 at 10:31 AM.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Weatherford Texas.
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    Well that is a bit dissapointing, 11/2 year wait for kit.

  10. #20
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Yorba Linda, CA
    Posts
    2,124

    Default Re: Backup instruments

    You can drop a thank you letter in the mail for Trent. As I understand it, when he started you tubing his videos the sales went up. I had to wait 6 months back in 2015.
    Eddie Forward
    Building
    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

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