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Thread: RunWay Layout help

  1. #1
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default RunWay Layout help

    I am laying out a runway at the house for the kitfox to come.
    Red lines Pictured are 1000ft east/west and a 700ft north/south. The trees on the south and the west end of the runways will be removed.
    My biggest question is how is landing affected by a fence row of trees with any wind?
    I see runways by trees but have never landed at one.
    I could have an east west in the middle of the field but would prefer not to inless the trees are a big problem. None of the neighbors object in any way they said. Take off would normally be to the south or to the west 80% of the time. Both of those directions are over open farm land.
    Thanks for any wisdom on this issue. I am a pilot since 1986 but have never flown a tail dragger so I have some learning to do on that I know.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    Harlan,

    I am sure others can add their experience to your question; and, the answers can be particular to a specific site.

    Many aviation training materials spend some time on orographic turbulence. The facts you state that you haven't had much experience with landing next to a windrow of trees, and no tailwheel experience looks like an opportunity for learning a new set of skills. Tailwheel training is part of it. Landing or taking off near obstacles, in my opinion, should be tackled a little at a time with easy stuff first (no wind and practice at fields a little further from an obstacle).

    Generally, a crosswind where the row of obstacles is directly upwind from the runway will result in a downward roll of the wind and an apparent loss of lift at and below the obstacle top; and, the opposite if the obstacle is directly downwind of the runway. Even a wind directly down the runway with the obstacle row (trees) parallel to the runway can result in some difference of the wind speed from left to right across the width of the runway - all depends on the closeness of the runway to the obstacle, strength of the wind, height of the obstacle, etc.

    I have used runways with obstacles of one sort or another adjacent to a runway. One in particular, with a high sand dune ridge next to the runway with the runway set down lower next to the water I just don't go to when the wind is coming briskly over the dunes.

    It's not easy to figure out, we can't see the wind (so much easier if we could!) and the variables are great. A strong wind can cause surface turbulence a looooong way from the obstacle.

    I like to see adequate clear space next to a runway; and, just won't land with an obstacle 5 feet from my wingtip.

    Suggest some real life training with an instructor accustomed to teaching the ins and outs of dealing with wind and obstacles.

    If it were me, I'd love to have a private 1000 foot strip; but I'd also mow down all of the trees anywhere near the runway and be done with the complication. Other than the trees, looks like a nice site. Another point to consider on a 1000 foot runway is to practice up on a longer one till a person knows for certain they can always do it.
    Dave S
    Kitfox 7 Trigear (Flying since 2009)
    912ULS Warp Drive

    St Paul, MN

  3. #3
    Super Moderator desertdave's Avatar
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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    Not knowing anything else about your property I would locate the runway as depicted and remove the trees or any other obstacles at the ends.

    912C1AD9-6CDF-4582-B7D8-367769C93F1C.jpg

    i also agree with Dave S on the side clearance issues.
    Dave
    KitFox 6 Taildragger
    912 ULS
    Whirlwind 70” Prop
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    All around nice guy

  4. #4
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    Dave thanks for the input. that is the info I'm looking for.
    My plan is that when the plane is completed I am going to stick and rudder to get my tail wheel endorsement then come home and test pilot my plane. Testing/practice will be done in a 40 ac wheat field with mowed runways 1300+ feet and no trees near. The strip pictured is just to come and go from home. I do have good neighbors but I don't want to be doing touch and goes for hours at a time either which might make not so happy neighbors. The trees do concern me is why I posted the question and your response about turbulence was my main fear. Moving the main east west to the middle sounds like the better option. The field is a full 1320 long with a power line on the east end so that is why I purposed a 1000ft because landing from the east would limit getting down too quick because of the rural power line.
    Last edited by Kitfox Pilot; 10-20-2019 at 04:59 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    Quote Originally Posted by desertdave View Post
    Not knowing anything else about your property I would locate the runway as depicted and remove the trees or any other obstacles at the ends.

    912C1AD9-6CDF-4582-B7D8-367769C93F1C.jpg

    i also agree with Dave S on the side clearance issues.
    Thanks. You have located the exact area I was going if the trees were a problem which I was afraid they were. There is already a gap on the west end of your marking about 40ft wide so another 40ft cleared and its pretty good to go there.

  6. #6

    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    What direction is the prevailing wind?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    How much longer can you make the strip if you go diagonally through the field? My strip was 1500' long and it was located on 1320 x 850' of land. I have since bought 3 acers from the neighbor, and it's now 2000'. Longer is better. JImChuk

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    Quote Originally Posted by littlecricket View Post
    What direction is the prevailing wind?
    Between south and west 80% of the time is my guess.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    Quote Originally Posted by avidflyer View Post
    How much longer can you make the strip if you go diagonally through the field? My strip was 1500' long and it was located on 1320 x 850' of land. I have since bought 3 acers from the neighbor, and it's now 2000'. Longer is better. JImChuk

    I will have long fields to practice in but here at home to change the angle would put me going over a house for takeoff or landing. I land my archer on a 1600 grass runway sometimes with no problem so I'm hoping 1000 will be plenty for a kitfox after I'm used to it. I do agree longer is better when landing.spring garden.jpg The pic is a larger view of the area around me.
    Last edited by Kitfox Pilot; 10-20-2019 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: RunWay Layout help

    build a taxiway and use the road to the west as a N/S runway on the upwind side of the trees... hehe
    Steve
    SS7 in work

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