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Thread: About to Order -- Questions

  1. #11
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    I believe an amateur built S7 registered at 1550# GW is E-AB but is not Light Sport and cannot be flown by a Sport Pilot. It gives you the freedom to install in-flight adjustable/constant speed props and other non-LSA items. An experimental is not "certified" even at 1550#.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  2. #12
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    Thanks, I was not aware the factory limits their builds to 1320#.
    Eddie Forward
    Flying
    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

  3. #13
    Senior Member rv9ralph's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    Correct. It is a regulation thing, not an engineering thing.

    Ralph

  4. #14

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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    Gents,

    Ok -- the space will work. Any time I need to put a wing on it will kind of be a thing. But it's do-able.

    Got it on the E-AB versus LSA, etc -- based on what you guys have said, at the end I'll end up with an E-AB non LSA, which is just fine with me, I will be certifying at 1550 and don't want to even blink at the idea of constant speed if i decide to go that direction.

    So now my focus is going towards getting the order correct.

    For instance from Aviator79 I learned that in my case it probably makes sense to see if the factory will go ahead and install my #1 ribs. (not an option on the order form... this one i'm sure is gold).

    I also know that I don't need the covering kit (I'm pretty sold on Oratex).

    What do folks think of the factory fairings? In my head it doesn't make much sense to put 26" bush wheels on ... AND fairings for the wing and stab? But I do realize that every bit helps. Thoughts on the factory fairing options? (I only get to do this order thing once...)

    How does it work if you don't buy your Rotax from KF? There's a guy here in South Florida that has 912 core's and I might work with him to get something going that comes in over 100hp and isn't 30k. Am I still going to be wanting the FWF kit from Kitfox? Worry about that later?

    How does delivery work? I see a lot of you guys head out to Idaho to pick your stuff up, that is a long way for me -- and that's like 5 days off both jobs, which negatively impacts finances. Thoughts?

    Any specific order considerations for future floats? Hard to see in the website pics but there don't appear to be tie downs at the top of the wing struts?

    I may be setting a record for most random questions in a single thread -- I know. But as I sit here with the order form there are a lot of 4 digit mistakes a guy could make. I'm sure it's gonna happen -- but I'd like to minimize it and capitalize on your expertise.



  5. #15
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    A few answers:
    Yes you want the factory strut fairings; most of us would agree they add about 10 mph-that's a lot. The horizontal stab strut fairings are nice but not nearly as effective.
    Many of us had the kit delivered, but you must use a service who knows what they are doing aircraftwise; I highly recommend Partain.
    The standard kit comes with hard points for floats, and yes there is a tiedown loop at the top of the lift struts.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  6. #16
    Senior Member rv9ralph's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    Flip... you don't mind if I call you that do you?

    Any how, when you call to place your order, John or Debra will walk you through the options. They want you to order the plane you want, they will not push you to add options that you don't want or need. In the process they will explain everything and answer any questions.

    Ralph

  7. #17
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    I agree with this. John will give you an honest opinion about each option without trying to sell you more than you want. Also be aware that there are many options available in the catalog that aren't on the common options on the order form. It's worth reading through the catalog and considering all the little bits you find there - it might save you on shipping later.
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

  8. #18
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    It is very wise of you to post questions because, as has been stated, the factory will not likely up sell you. There are many things the factory has available that are not in the catalog. Banjo fittings for the the fuel tank for example. If you have a Rotax engine that they have installed before, the FWF will likely be just fine. Little of the kit would be anything that you have. It will have radiator hose, oil lines and connectors, radiator and oil cooler for example. If I already had this kind of stuff on a motor I owned, I would still get the new stuff. As I understand it, hoses and the like need replacing after about five years anyhow, unless you buy Silicone as some have done. The Fiberglass stuff you will need as well.
    Eddie Forward
    Flying
    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

  9. #19

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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    Some forums seem to go by name, some by handle -- my name is Scott -- I should probably fill out that profile thing a little better.

    I called yesterday and spoke with Debra (i think) ---- super nice, super knowledgable and enthusiastic. It was quite refreshing to talk to someone who is enthused about their job. Nov 2020 is the next delivery slot and she mentioned the same things you guys did -- at some point I am going out there to fly w/ S&R -- and at that time I'll probably sit down w/ John or Debra and go through the minutiae. She too mentioned that there is a fair amount of stuff that "isn't on the website".

    For the next guy that reads this -- current shipping from Idaho to south of Miami was quoted at $3800. I have to do the math but that may be break even or cheaper than doing it myself.

    But in order to be smart enough at that meeting I'm going to keep combing through all the stuff on here. I clip out a fair amount of stuff to stick in my "digital notebook" on KF build. So for you guys posting pics and processes -- here's one guy who appreciates it.

    10 mph is a LOT to gain from faired struts. Sold.

    Engine stuff -- that makes sense Eddie -- I'm just thinking that there has to be a way to do a bit better on HP than a stock 912iS, even the 10-15 HP from a big bore kit is a significant increase. Still need to figure out if the price difference up to a 914 is worth it to me. "Whoaaa, that's too much horsepower" said no pilot, ever. However, as it turns out -- I have a while to think about that -- and a trip to S&R flying both the 912iS and the 914 may help answer the question as well.

    Also as a point for the next guy doing research -- Aerotrek A220 is a competitor to the KF in a way (there is obvious ancestry there). I called that guy. He was nice, and knowledgable. It is sold only as a completed aircraft, mostly made in the Czeck Republic but has a reasonable rep for quality. That plane is sold as an SLSA, which I was told can be pretty easily taken to an ELSA status with a few pieces of paper. Now if you take a 16 hour Repairman course you can do your own maintenance and (i think) sign off your own condition inspection. You can also modify it as you please (which you can't if it's an SLSA). However -- you're still stuck flying it at 1320#. There is just no getting around that. Would it fly at the 1550# that a KF will? Likely. But now you're the jerk breaking the rules on purpose and it can be legitimately said, "*** were you thinking? The plane was not designed for that!". The (relatively) high usable payload is one of the key reasons I like the KF, the Aerotrek looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, but can't be loaded like a duck. An extra 200#'s is a lot. Also for reference, he is sold out until June 2020.

    So all in all -- I'm going to put down a deposit in the next day or two to hold a Nov 2020 delivery. I'll also keep looking for a completed SS7, which I've been doing for quite a while --- seems like guys love 'em -- i get it. I may also try to pick up something to fly for the next 2 years while I'm waiting and then building -- sell it endgame to pay for engine when I get there on the KF. What was that fat little side x side cub? The J-4 or something? One of my kids is keen to fly and still thinks I'm cool -- maybe start teaching her a thing or two with something like that, or sometimes a Rans S-6/7 can be had less expensively ... (I have 31 tabs on barnstormers open right now...)

  10. #20
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default Re: About to Order -- Questions

    When you get to S&R definitely fly both engines. However, be aware that the 912iS is mated to an Airmaster CS prop, while the 914 has a fixed-pitch prop, so you won't really get an apples-to-apples comparison. Here's what you'll find. The 914 plane will outclimb the 912iS plane significantly. But when you push over into cruise, you'll need to pull the throttle way back to keep the engine from overspeeding. The 912iS with the CS prop runs away from the 914-powered airplane in cruise. It's a good 15-20 mph faster, because it can make max continuous power all day long.

    Here's my take: If most of your flying is below 5000' MSL, the 912iS with a CS prop is the sweet spot. Fuel injection, economy, price, mechanical simplicity, and perfectly adequate takeoff performance. I opted for the 914 because my field elevation is 7200', and we sit at the foot of several 10k-11k peaks. It was the right choice, but if I were closer to sea level, I'd have a 912iS. I do suffer from fuel-injection envy.

    For those at high elevations reading this post, do consider that the amount of compression that the turbo needs to provide to get 40" MAP makes the intake air very hot. The Turbo controller will limit the airbox pressure setpoint when the airbox temperature gets too hot. I knew this, but failed to realize that in the summer months it will happen by the time I'm a couple hundred feet high every single day. At lower elevations, the boost reduction is rarely seen because the pressure ratio isn't as extreme. I did some thermodynamic calcs and found that on a standard day at my elevation, any ambient temperature above about 60 deg F will result in the TCU limiting boost. This is pretty consistent with my observation. So this winter I might fix my EFI-envy and add an intercooler at the same time. With a normally-aspirated engine, you don't have to think about any of this.
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

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