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Thread: Landing gear weight

  1. #11
    Senior Member
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    Nov 2013
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    Boise, ID
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    249

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    Quote Originally Posted by michaega View Post
    Not going to get into the landing gear preference or wheel sizes but do you really need a 914? Had 914 that happened to be more problematic then I cared for. Fortunately I found a 912uls (salvaged motor/ totally rebuilt) and put the zipper big bore 1484cc kit and I’m very happy. Flown into the Sierra mountain and happy with motor. I need to add that the engine is a later 2007 model with thru bolt cases and the cam was replaced with the zipper big bore high performance cam.
    What’s the HP now?

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Corona, CA
    Posts
    16

    Cool Re: Landing gear weight

    The zipper 1484 big bore kit will give you 114 hp, add the performance cam and that will bring up to 120 hp. The cylinders are a thing of beauty if your a gear head like me with better finning. Of course I didn’t stop there I have the SDS electronic fuel injection and variable timing also by SDS. Not having a dyno available to me like the Zipper folks have, I can only guess another 5 hp or so.
    Pulled out my W&B for the Kitfox 7, it’s 826lbs (nose dragger) with Grove gear, magnum whole airplane parachute, MGL 10” EFIS, a210 com, transp, and iPad.

    Zipper makes a bigger bore kit but I still like looking out and seeing the wings in the right place.

    btw: I have no stake in either company.
    Kitfox 7 flying

  3. #13
    Senior Member
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    Nov 2013
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    Boise, ID
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    249

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    Quote Originally Posted by michaega View Post
    The zipper 1484 big bore kit will give you 114 hp, add the performance cam and that will bring up to 120 hp. The cylinders are a thing of beauty if your a gear head like me with better finning. Of course I didn’t stop there I have the SDS electronic fuel injection and variable timing also by SDS. Not having a dyno available to me like the Zipper folks have, I can only guess another 5 hp or so.
    Pulled out my W&B for the Kitfox 7, it’s 826lbs (nose dragger) with Grove gear, magnum whole airplane parachute, MGL 10” EFIS, a210 com, transp, and iPad.

    Zipper makes a bigger bore kit but I still like looking out and seeing the wings in the right place.

    btw: I have no stake in either company.
    I’ll be in San Diego Thursday and Friday. I’d like to chat about your upgrades if you’ve got time. I can rent a car and come up. PM me if that is doable.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    I think there is a great argument for the Shock monster gear, but it is a trade off with cruise speed for sure, you will loose 7-10 mph depending on tires. The gear is far safer and can make a bad grove gear landing look good. It allows for a greater angle of attack on take off and landing because of the higher stance, but hurts the visibility out the front. The TK1 gear legs move the wheels forward a couple inches which really improves the ground handling making it very stable.

    The TK1 gear legs and Shock monster shocks are 1.6 lbs lighter than the Grove spring gear. You can shave an additional 4.12 lbs off by using the Beringer wheels and brakes. If you are interested in the Airstreaks in a 26" but plan on using the Kitfox at the LSA gross weight of 1320 lbs than look at the Alaskan Bushwheel Ultralights, the 26" is 3.5 lbs lighter per tire than the Airstreaks. the 29" Ultralight is 6lbs lighter per tire than the Airstreak 29."

    Just some ways to save weight.
    Bryan
    Project Kitfox
    Bowen Aero LLC
    Kitfox Model 5 Lycoming O-290 D powered
    Building a Model 7 Apex powered
    Redding, CA
    http://www.youtube.com/c/ProjectKitfox

  5. #15
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Merrill, WI
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    3,044

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    When I converted my old model IV-1050 from Bungee gear, ATV tires with Douglass wheels and Matco brakes to Grove Gear, wheels, brakes and 21-800/6 tires the net weight gain was:


    12 pounds.
    Av8r3400
    Kitfox Model IV
    The Mangy Fox
    912UL 105hp Zipper
    YouTube Videos

  6. #16

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Torrington, wy
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    Quote Originally Posted by redbowen View Post
    I think there is a great argument for the Shock monster gear, but it is a trade off with cruise speed for sure, you will loose 7-10 mph depending on tires. The gear is far safer and can make a bad grove gear landing look good. It allows for a greater angle of attack on take off and landing because of the higher stance, but hurts the visibility out the front. The TK1 gear legs move the wheels forward a couple inches which really improves the ground handling making it very stable.

    The TK1 gear legs and Shock monster shocks are 1.6 lbs lighter than the Grove spring gear. You can shave an additional 4.12 lbs off by using the Beringer wheels and brakes. If you are interested in the Airstreaks in a 26" but plan on using the Kitfox at the LSA gross weight of 1320 lbs than look at the Alaskan Bushwheel Ultralights, the 26" is 3.5 lbs lighter per tire than the Airstreaks. the 29" Ultralight is 6lbs lighter per tire than the Airstreak 29."

    Just some ways to save weight.
    Not to derail but doesn’t moving the gear further from the CG make the plane less stable?

  7. #17

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    Quote Originally Posted by 72chevy View Post
    Not to derail but doesn’t moving the gear further from the CG make the plane less stable?
    It does move the CG aft on the ground which puts more weight on the tail, for ground handling this helps, it also allows for much more aggressive braking. In flight it does move the CG very slightly forward. It is very close to the datum so it doesn't have a noticeable effect. I was skeptical but it really does handle much better.
    Bryan
    Project Kitfox
    Bowen Aero LLC
    Kitfox Model 5 Lycoming O-290 D powered
    Building a Model 7 Apex powered
    Redding, CA
    http://www.youtube.com/c/ProjectKitfox

  8. #18
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    2,048

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    More weight behind your main wheels in theory should make the plane less stable with ground handling as the weight wants to swap ends. This is why tail draggers ground loop. The weight tries to swap ends. The more weight aft, the worse it it. I understand what you are saying about a longer coupled wheel base which does make the plane more stable. It's be interesting to find out where the sweet spot is.
    ------------------
    Josh Esser
    Flying SS7
    Rotax 914iS
    AirMaster Prop

    Edmonton, AB, CWL3

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Rathdrum ID
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    Quote Originally Posted by Esser View Post
    Cabane gear is a couple pounds lighter than the Grove (Grove is close to 40lbs I think) but slower. I have a 914 powered Model 7 with a lithium battery, constant speed prop and when I did the weight and balance on 26" tires it came to 878. I have a new project I'm slowing picking on and my goal is under 800lbs and I'm going pretty extreme on the plane's diet to get there. Not to say it isn't possible but just to be realistic, you need to be conscious about saving weight everywhere you can.
    Josh,

    I am building a 5 with a 914/Airmaster. Do have a weight & Balance that you could share with me? What tailwheel do you have?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Delta Whisky's Avatar
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    Dec 2017
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    Amissville, VA
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    637

    Default Re: Landing gear weight

    I've captured reported weights for some time now and as of now my very limited data base shows:
    w/o outliers w/o outliers
    Model KF4 KF5 KF5 KF6 SS7 SS7
    average 676 841 820 906 836 827
    Max 793 1,013 890 906 963 878
    min 560 777 777 906 736 763
    sigma 76 69 35 0 56 33
    count 5 9 8 1 19 16
    The columns labels "w/o outliers" represent me taking out variants caused by what could be "scale dreaming" and heavy engine choices but still only makes a 9 pound difference for the SS7.
    BTW - when I converted to TK-1 shocks (only, not their gear) it cost 8 pounds.

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