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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
When in doubt, just follow the instructions in the order they are presented in the manual. I don't see any harm in varnishing the ribs right now, but it's also not urgent to get them protected. I'd get the other wood bits installed and then varnish all the wood at the same time. You're less likely to waste varnish that way, and will use fewer consumables, etc.
I've had to do very little powdercoat touchup, and then only because of my own clumsiness in dropping a wrench or something.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Funny, any prep I did involved removing powder coat. i.e. mounting holes. Lots of stuff to use reamers on.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Ok that's what I suspected. The powder coating must have improved over the years, mine even has paint down some pretty deep holes!
Thanks!
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Joe, I purchased my Series 5 from the pre Mcbeans era from the previous Skystar co. and the quality of the powder coat was suspect on my kit (among other things). With any paint job , prep is 75% of the job, and it was apparent that this was not done on some of my powdercoated parts. I had to take them down to bare metal and repaint or touch up many areas. Sounds like the Mcbeans have done a better job with quality control. Bruce N199CL
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Normal to have to remove quite a lot of material on the horizontal stab rib slots to get them to fit at the positions in the manual? Some are quite tight and bend if I try to make them square.
Also when fitting against metal supports do you sand to clear the welds to allow a flush fit?
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Yes and yes.
If I m honest, I was disappointed by the fit of those ribs. In the age of CAD ubiquity and CNC manufacturing, I feel like these should have fit pretty close to perfect.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Agreed.
My own humble opinion is it's just an easy way adjust for minor differences in the welded structures.
More important to line up all stab/elev ribs nicely with no twists and sand smooth
All the best!
Enjoy your build! :)
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
I thought I read that you should not varnish until after hysol. Something about hysol over varnish = not good.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Made some progress today.... Sanding the ribs took a small learning curve and some are looser then I would have liked, but overall I think they are in good shape.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6339
On the elevator it seems to me that the second longest rib (I.e. not the longest) should be the most inbound due to the radius of the aft most bar. The fit is much closer this way if I am trying to line up with the horizontal. Is this what yall have found? See below. The one my finger is on is close to the position I think it should be. The slightly longer one would go on the other side of the rod to the right.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6340
Also the third rib from the center is quite loose with zero sanding. Maybe I don't have the order correct.
To clarify I was planning on varnishing the factory installed wing ribs, assuming I won't have to Hysol anything to them down the road. Correct me if Im wrong.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeRuscito
...
On the elevator it seems to me that the second longest rib (I.e. not the longest) should be the most inbound due to the radius of the aft most bar. The fit is much closer this way if I am trying to line up with the horizontal. Is this what yall have found? See below. The one my finger is on is close to the position I think it should be. The slightly longer one would go on the other side of the rod to the right.
Also the third rib from the center is quite loose with zero sanding. Maybe I don't have the order correct.
Sounds right to me, Joe. As far as the order goes, do your ribs have part numbers printed on them? I believe mine did. That would confirm the correct placement of them.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
I didn’t see part numbers but I’ll look tomorrow.
Here’s another one. Scotch bright 7447 is the go to for sanding wing spars. The manual even states this is because other sand paper commonly has aluminum oxide abrasive and 7447 does not. But from the 3m website 7447 is made from fine grade aulininun oxide....
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Aluminum oxide is what you want. I think that that is probably a technical error in the manual. Aluminum oxide is a common abrasive and it is also formed naturally on the surface of aluminum. There are many other types of abrasives, such as silicon carbide, which would not be good choices for aluminum.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Hysol Quality Control Check:
Gave it my first go this morning. Mixed 15g:15g (way too much!), and about a teaspoon of flox. They aren't the prettiest but Id love some feedback. I tried to use as little as possible to get a decent fillet on the stiffeners. I only did the two outbound most rib on the horizontal so I could learn a bit before diving in.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6341
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6342
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6343
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6344
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6345
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Hello Joe
Don't be hesitant to utilize more Hysol for the filets. Mine probably had twice as much as what I see in your photos. I found that if I whipped much of it off then it might pop free when I bumped it with my various body parts as I navigated around the wing. I even broke two false ribs by catching the trailing edge on my shirt sleeve etc etc. Leave yourself a nice 45 degree bead of hysol on both sides. I found that a popsicle stick has a nice radius as a scraper that leaves what I considered a large enough bead.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Merry Christmas everyone!
I’ve started on the control column while I have some Hysol curing. As I’m assembling I’m wondering if anything is done for coronation protection of these parts? Going by the manual I’m press fitting and riveting parts. Will I be expected to disassemble these later on?
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
There are no points for "neat" here, so don't skimp.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Ok. Ive gotten most of the horizontal ribs installed. Ill go around one more time and get any joints I missed due to clamps. Ive thickened up my Hysol joints quite a bit, actually makes it much easier to work with.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6346
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6350
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6351
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6352
I did find a bit of light power coating, so I gave it a coat of the touch up that came with the kit
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6347
Then I got stated on the control column, has some issues with pressing the stick bearing but got it sorted where Im happy with it. Then I ran into this...
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6348
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6349
I removed the control stick pivot bolt to see if it would give me enough room but without luck. It seems that the hole and/or weldment is misplaced. Am I missing something? Any tips here?
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Tip on the bolt that can't go in:
Carefully pull the bottom stick assembly upward, away from the pivot bearings (this might be tight from the pivot bearings being already installed). Move the it enough so the bottom bolt can go through the big hole and be safetied. Then realign the assembly with the pivot bearings and reinstall the pivot bolt.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the suggestion. I did just that but there still is not enough room. If I do get it in, getting a torque wrench of some type might also be a trick!
Is the bolt generally this low?
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Yet another problem... I’ve installed the control column bushing in the mounting bracket bearing. It is barely larger than the bearings, so when installed and torqued it takes a lot of force to move the column. Is my bushing short? Can I lightly sand the tops of the brass bearings down?
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Sand that bearing out until it’s completely free. Also on my build, I had to use washers to play with the pilot side mount. If I bolted to the airframe, it would really torque the tube and bind it up. All the stuff you are doing now just needs a little attention to make it all friction free. The rest of the build everything fits better.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Ok bearing bushing sanded and smooth. Now I have the control column mounted and back drilled. I have some friction, not excessive but I’m not sure how much is acceptable. My control sticks are back ordered so it’s hard to gauge. Right now moving the sticks right to left (aileron) is free I.e. little to no friction. Moving forward and aft, when moving the column there’s a good amount of friction. Enough to hold the column in place when released, but smooth and similar through the range. Does this seem correct?
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
You want no friction, and no play either. I sanded until my control stick will fall to whatever way the aircraft is leaning. All the points of friction will add up so get them to move freely. I took apart the nylon bushing about 4 dozen times it seemed.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
mine were a bit tight as you describe yours to be. I had to pull mine out and try again. I am not sure if the weather made things different but I agree, make things free as possible without creating play.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Made some progress the last few days.
I got the link bolt into the control column, I had to grind 0.5 mm from one side of the bolt head, and do some wiggling but I got it in and I dont think Ive compromised the bolt in any meaningful way.
Then, after about 20 tries, in out, in out, got the column bracket bushing smooth and square enough that I'm happy with the feel. Its mounted. I have an order from aircraft spruce to replace the well used lock nuts. No need to replace the actual bolts correct?
On to the other side of the control column, I found a good way to sand the plastic mount/bearing, the kitfox supplied hysol syringe is a almost perfect fit with one wrap of sandpaper. Still needs some sanding to make it completely free when torqued down, but getting close. Also need to replace those nylocks!
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6357
Also found a good way to ream the flap handle mount. This one was a pia! Ground a hex on the very end of the reamer so I could use a small socket. Mostly difficult because the tube axis is not quite parallel to the axis of the tab hole, and both are so close to the frame.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6356
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
My two biggest faults are not having used nutplates for the rudder control attachment through the floorboards and not having spent more time getting the rudder controls to move freely. As they are now “sticky” I have to neutralize any rudder input. PITA.
Jon
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
I remember on my control column mounting bracket, I had to experiment with removing or adding washers (thick, thin) under the bracket mounting holes to get it to lie square and flat in relation to the horizontal control tube. Once I did, it torqued down without binding.
The plastic bearing/mount is a bugger because when you torque down the bolts, the nylon distorts more than you might think. I had to sand and sand until it felt somewhat loosey goosey before torquing; then it was just right after torquing. I also greased it lightly.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Joe, you have probably already figured this out , but go the the local hardware store for a variety of the approriate sized plain nuts to use for the put together , then take apart assemblies and save your good stopnuts for final assembly. Just flag them with some masking tape so you remember to reinstall the stop nuts when you are satisfied with the assembly. I can see you are becoming a homebuilder already as your ingenuity is starting to show. You will need this throughout the build process. Wait till you tackle the rudder torque tube assembly , it gave me fits, but make sure you get it to work nice and smooth with no drag , or you will regret it later( See note from Jon above). Bruce N199CL
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Jim... it sure is a bugger but I’m getting there. Maybe one one sanding session and I should be good.
Bruce, I just bought AN duplicates that way if I forget they are already the correct hardware. To that point though, I have been using paper clips in place of cotter pins, is it safe to say unless the manual says otherwise I can cotterpin the bell ranks and control rigging?
I’m working on the floor boards now. Can someone tell me what this cut out is for? In the upper left. It doesn’t seem to be for the weldment unless it needs some major sanding. Does something pass through here later?
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6358
And lastly, I seem to have gotten a rod end absolutely stuck on the aileron rod. It was a bit sticky going on due to some extra powder coat on the end of the threads but nothing extreme, got about half way on and stopped, now it is not budging. Any suggestions? Already put it in the vice with no luck, I’m concerned I’m going to twist off the thread.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeRuscito
I’m working on the floor boards now. Can someone tell me what this cut out is for? In the upper left. It doesn’t seem to be for the weldment unless it needs some major sanding. Does something pass through here later?
And lastly, I seem to have gotten a rod end absolutely stuck on the aileron rod. It was a bit sticky going on due to some extra powder coat on the end of the threads but nothing extreme, got about half way on and stopped, now it is not budging. Any suggestions? Already put it in the vice with no luck, I’m concerned I’m going to twist off the thread.
I think the hole in the floor board is a possible place for electrical cables to pass through.
As far as the rod end:
- Try letting it soak in lubricant for 12-24 hours and see if it can spin off.
- If it is stuck because of powder coat you may need to heat it up locally with a heat gun/torch so that the PC melts temporarily. Be careful so you don't ruin the PC on the pushrod.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
The sides of my center council seem to be a little high. Should they be cut down?
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6359
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
I trimmed mine down with a large bench belt sander.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeRuscito
...
I’m working on the floor boards now. Can someone tell me what this cut out is for? In the upper left. It doesn’t seem to be for the weldment unless it needs some major sanding. Does something pass through here later? ...
I think it is probably just notched to allow the panel to fit properly and clear the square tubing that is the bottom of the door opening. Mine has the same cut-out. It may be a little larger than it has to be.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
-To free the rod end, try a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Soak several hours or overnight. I learned this from British motorcycle gurus for unsticking old bolts. In your case, acetone softens powder coat, so I would think it will work well. Keep it off the powder coat you want to keep though!
The floorboard notch is jut to clear that square tube.
-My console sides were high and required trimming.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
airlina
Joe, you have probably already figured this out , but go the the local hardware store for a variety of the approriate sized plain nuts to use for the put together , then take apart assemblies and save your good stopnuts for final assembly. Just flag them with some masking tape so you remember to reinstall the stop nuts when you are satisfied with the assembly. I can see you are becoming a homebuilder already as your ingenuity is starting to show. You will need this throughout the build process. Wait till you tackle the rudder torque tube assembly , it gave me fits, but make sure you get it to work nice and smooth with no drag , or you will regret it later( See note from Jon above). Bruce N199CL
I used hardware store hex nuts for a lot of temporary installations. I painted them with red fingernail polish to make them stand out as non-flight.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Thanks for all the help guys! So nice to come back and have all my questions answered! The red nail polish is a good idea. And I’ll give the acetone a try!
Here’s my next one. On to the rudder pedals. They required A LOT of sanding to get smooth. Am I supposed to add back any type of corrosion protection before riveting the assembly together?
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
To trim the side panels I used a utility knife and straight edge. Just marked where it needed to be cut, set the straight edge on and scribe it a half dozen times. Then set the scribed line on the edge of your bench and snap it off. Finish it off with a file. Easy Peasy.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeRuscito
Thanks for all the help guys! So nice to come back and have all my questions answered! The red nail polish is a good idea. And I’ll give the acetone a try...
Copious amounts of grease.
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Re: Joe Ruscito's Kitfox S7 Build
Do the center council rivets need to be countersunk? It looks like the ones supplied in my kit under the part number called out in the manual are not countersunk. I assume the upholstery later will be able to accomadate the head of a standard rivet correct?