Hmm on my kit they were counter sunk
Printable View
Hmm on my kit they were counter sunk
countersunk or not, mine were pull rivets, so they aren't smooth. I put 1/8 closed cell upholstery foam over the center portion and put the fabric over that. Other than slots for the flaps and pedal adjust levers my center console is smooth and soft.:) down side, the fuel valve placard bows up on either end being that its rectangular and the valve gets tightened down on the middle. Not bad but I didn't think about that. I could enlarge the hole on that placard and have it ride around the brass valve but It isn't bad enough to make me do that.
I used counter sunk pull rivets. Covers with fabric only. It's like they aren't there.
I used counter sunk pull rivets also.
Made some progress the last few days. I've run up on a few road blocks due to back ordered parts. Mainly the bushing and bearing for the horizontal and the master cylinders for the pedals. I hope to get an update from the factory once they are back in office.
Center council is fit and drilled, floor boards are in and ready for varnish. Pedals are in and drilled. Vertical and rudder are 90% hysoled.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6361
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6364
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6363
Seat pan is fit, sanded, and installed. The nut plates were a bit of a pain, they like to cross thread. Even when they are thread correctly it's easy to spin the head on the screw due to the locking pinch point.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6362
These are the rivets I was supplied as "flush heads" Maybe the thin head conforms to the countersunk hole? I would expect them to have a matching chamfer under the head. Can anyone confirm these are or are not flush rivets?
Nut plates with floating nuts are more expensive but really help with getting hardware into them. Untill the nut plate gets a little use you may, as youve discovered, strip a few screw heads out. The rivet you show looks like what I was provided. It's been awhile so I don't recall exactly. They don't install as a flush solid rivet would. As others have said, the fabric will cover it I suppose. Fabric supplied in the interior kit is much thicker and more durable than some faux suade fabric I had bought to trial a project I had in mind for the console. The supplied fabric was thicker and doesn't conform to grooves and crevices that I had hoped it would so I am certain you won't see the rivet heads as others have stated.
The nut plates also don't forget very well on those tabs. I used Rivnuts.
I loathe nutplates and replace them with high quality steel rivnuts where ever I could.
I left the nutplates in the wing tip and because the supplied screws are Phillips, half of them got destroyed by being stripped while trying to make the nutplates pinched part open up. . I replaced all the Phillips screw on the wing tip with SS Roberts. Why any hardware still has a Phillips head on it makes no sense to me.
You can run the approriate sized thread tap into a nut plate part way to relieve some of the “grip” strength if the part being held doesn’t need all the holding power of a prestine nut plate.
Joe,
The rivet you are holding doesn’t look like it is a “flush head” in the picture. Flush head rivets have a definite formed taper on the mating surface of the head, whether pulled or solid driven rivets. Pulled (“pop”) rivets generally have a 120 deg. head, while the solid AN rivets are 100 deg. Use the correct countersink or dimple dies accordingly. It’s hard to see on your picture, but it appears like that may be a flush head rivet on the surface behind your hand. Use the correct rivets. It’s not unheard of for kits to occasionally have some parts mislabeled.
Like Steve said, sometimes running a tap part way into an all-metal lightweight nut-plate is helpful, especially for the smaller (6-32 & 8-32) sizes.
Josh - one of the reasons Phillips head screws are used many times is because they eliminate, or at least minimize the possibility of the screwdriver slipping off the fastener and marring a nice finish. Of course, there are “button heads” using an Allen wrench, torx, and others also. There are several common different designs of cross slotted (“phillips”) screw heads. The key is to use the correct driver, and it’s sometimes a little difficult to identify what that is.
That is what I suspected. The one in the background I pulled from another bag for comparison.
I also found the nutplates too tight for my liking. An easier way to loosen them up without using a tap is just squeeze them carefully with vice-grips, just a little at a time until a fresh screw goes in without stripping the head but still has plenty of holding friction. Quick and easy.
Good eyes still John. I thought the one in the background was a flush rivet and considered the photo didn't reveal that on the one in hand.
I’m ready to install stringers and lower stringer. Is there any reason not to install tail wheel and/or main gear early instead of building a fuselage stand?
Seems like they would be in the way for covering. I know your doing poly fiber but for Oratex they would of been in the way. I am also glad I left off the butt ribs so I could set the fuselage upside down and on its side and not worry about damaging them. Also no gear keeps it lighter.
You will want to be able to rotate the fuselage for covering and paint. You could put the gear on, but you'll have to take them back off to cover. Better to just build the stand now.
I assumed I’d have to take it back off to cover but I was under the impression I needed to fit it all before covering anyway. If that’s not the case then I’ll build the stand. Was trying to kill two birds as they say.
Any suggestions? Got in this far. Can’t get it in anymore, or out. Safe to file down the part that extends too far?
Yeah that Loctite 680 is tough stuff! I once had a bolt on another project that had a sloppy fit so I use that. I was unbelievable how hard I had to work with heat and big hammers to get the bolt out.. long story short you have three options.
You can either drill it out and get another bearing put in there. Might be tough as your drill will have a hard time fitting against the stab. You would probably need a really long bolt.
You could file the one side and fab up a small piece to make up the difference to put in the other side.
Or you could file it and call it a day. Some guys are perfectionists and would say drill it out etc. Personally with how little is showing, I would feel comfortable with filing it and installing it as is. There are 5 more bushing that take the relatively low load. When in doubt, call the factory.
Not sure if it helps but when I did this step I made sure the bearing slipped in relatively easily(friction fit but not tons of force) and then I had a "C" clamp ready. As soon as that 680 was on the bushing I tightened the C clamp to get it in quickly
Also helps to cold-soak the bushing in your freezer and heat the elevator with a heat gun before driving them in.
Also, if you sanded the bearings down to fit those bushings before you installed them, you'll find that installing the bushings compresses them, and you'll need to sand the bearings some more. Ask me how I know! :rolleyes:
Thanks Josh, after that first one I was a bit more agressive with the presanding. Even with a c clamp it wasn’t moving! Got the rest of them in. I’ll give the factory a call just Incase but I think I’ll end up filing.
A caution about filing it down: The bearing that slips inside of this bushing must stick out a little on both sides so that when you install the elevator the two welded on tabs slip over the bearing and the bolt must tightly clamp the two tabs to the bearing without clamping to the bushing. So when you rotate the elevator the bushing does not move, but the bearing rotates inside the bushing. I think you will be OK filing it down, but just be sure the mechanism works as it should.
Call the factory and get a new brass bushing coming. (Bearing) heat up the elevator but don’t damage powder coating. Take a socket that will fit easily in and hit it and knock it out. Start over and sand brass bushing so it will slide in easy. Then apply locktight and install. We had to do this on one of ours planes.
Jim's nailed it correctly. To add to that, the plane bearing through which the bolt goes is made from a softer material than the interference fit outer bush and you need a "running" fit between the inner and outer. If your bolt is rotating when you move the elevator up and down, then the joint isn't working as designed. Furthermore, and more importantly, you are rotating the bolt in the HS mounted tabs which over time will cause wear in the tab bolt holes, which can then lead to sloppiness in your elevator control system.... not something you want happening.
Thanks all for the input. I filled it down for fitting, but I did talk to Brandon and replacing it is suggested so I will get one on order and replace it when it arrives.
Got the tail all fitted up and varnished except for the rudder and bulkhead. Pretty exciting to put it all together for the first time.
a few things:
My elevator is pretty tight. It doesn't fall under its own weight. All of my bearing bushings are a nice smooth fit, but I suspect that the powder coat on the side of the bushing mounts and the tabs are causing some friction and the taps not being exactly square to the axis. Will this loosen up as the powder coat wears? Should I clean it off?
I had to grind some of the weld on the center horizontal mounting bushing, that connects to the fuselage, to make it square with the sides, so it could be installed. I want to be over cautious here and check because there are only 3 points holding the horizontal! It was minimal but what to check its ok.
Post some pictures, that will help tell what your talking about. It should not be binding at all. I would guess you need more sandind on bearings? How does it feel with the bolts in and no nuts on the hinges?
It should move freely. Figure it out now; it will be time well spent.
Joe, if you are rotating powdercoated tabs against powdercoated bushing mounts, then something is wrong. The bearing (brass piece) inside the steel bushing should be the only moving surfaces when the joint is bolted up to torque spec.
IIRC, It's a steel bearing inside a brass bushing. Otherwise, Jim dis exactly correct. The ears on the elevator should only touch the bearings - nothing else.
I only have the bolts in and its this tight. The bearing inside the bushing does protrude from both sides. I cant imagine it will get looser if I put the bolts on, but maybe that acts to square up the tabs and prevent rubbing?
Some of my tabs where bent so they where rubbing against the powder coating. Had to take a rubber mallet and slightly bend them square/perpendicular to the tube. Just make sure you have it on the correct way and not upside down? The control linkage attach point should pointing down?
Its been a bit since Ive had a chance to get on here and post an update. Ive been using every moment to work on the plane! Progress in the last week:
-Got the elevator smooth, thanks for all the tips and help, it took some bending of the taps and a bit of weld grinding where the welds encroached on the adjacent tab (see red arrow), I had two welds that had to be cut back, one on the center attachment and one on the right ride of the elevator.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6368
-Rudder cables in, except I was a bit short on cable so I have one more copilot cable to run.
-side stringers are installed, center one is cut, drilled and ready.
-Pedals are installed over varnished floorboards.
-Lift strut brackets on both wings are riveted and hysoled
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6367
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6366
-Wing attach reinforcements are complete on one wing, just need to be hysoled on the second
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6369
-and lastly (that I can remember) the tip balsa blocks are in place, they also have been super filled in the gaps, ready to be sanded back.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/pic...pictureid=6365
-trim actuator is in and wire is run
I think I will get the wings put on this week and start working on the #1 rib and butt rib attachments. Excited to be working on the wings!
Quick question, the manual says to install rib #1 and let it cure with wing on the plane overnight. My garage will only allow for one wing to be installed at a time. Is it ok to install one at a time? My concern is that there will be some asymmetric frame twisting with only one wing installed that would cause the rib to set up in a non-normal position. Probably over thinking it but wanted to check.
I think lots of people have done it that way Joe
Just support the wingtip to take most of the weight off.
Thanks Josh and Jim. Got one wing installed last night. Had to do some major rearranging to make it happen.
After installing my lift strut brackets and riveting in place I am rechecking wing sweep and I’m getting a 3/4 inch measurement at the wing root. Is this acceptable? If I adjust the lift strut rod ends won’t that bind the wing connection bolts and pin?
Joe,
Do you mean “...rechecking wing dihedral”?
No I mean sweep, I have 3/4 in between a line stretched from wing tip to wing tip supported by a 1 in block and the wing root. The manual calls for 1 in. It seems I have slightly aft sweep.