Unpanelling the Panel, tube removal (Kitfox 7)

[DirtFox]

Per diagram, is the support tube for the instrument panel also like a cross member being an integral part of the airframe for structural reason
or can it be removed? The reason I'm asking and naturally this question will go to Kitfox as well is because I'd like install a similar *unpanel articulating arm in place of a usual instrument panel.
Thank you for your thoughts on this.
- happy flyling, DirtFox

*[E.g. Avilution.com (http://avilution.com), 'Unpanel' avionics display example here: https://youtu.be/7-3EhquJp8Q ]
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[jiott]

I can't imagine it being a structural part of the airframe. It just connects to the back of the panel itself-nothing structural there.

[jrevens]

I don't know... that tube definitely provides structural strength between the sides of the fuselage at that point. I would say that it is an important part of the structure.

[jiott]

I think you are right John. After looking closer at the diagram, I realize he was talking about the horizontal cross tube under the edge of the panel. I mistakenly thought we were talking about the two clamp-on tubes that just support the upper edge of the panel.

[DirtFox]

Yes, thank you @jiott & @jrevens. It's pretty much what I thought too just by looking at it, not much else going on there in between either side of the fuselage. I mean, there could be a work around with removal such as another method of 're' structuring this cockpit section to bring back its integrity but I was trying to avoid reinventing the wheel. No doubt Kitfox will think I'm insane but I'll post a response which I'm already guessing what that will be.

[DirtFox]

I haven't heard back from Kitfox yet but came across the Rans S-21 configuration appearing to provide structural integrity in the area. Using two triangular sections on the forward end to beef up the cockpit section without a tube going from side to side. This may appear to be okay doing away with the need for a structural cross bar/tube which also holds up the usual instrument panel from one side of the fuselage to the other, which would get in the way of an 'UnPanel' setup.
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[David47]

If you were to remove that tube on the KF 7 you would compromise the load path from the upper engine mounts. That tube acts as a brace that ties LH and RH sides together. Remove it, and each side acts independently just like a mechanism at the door frame; i.e. "floppy".

If you want to do what you're aiming for, talk to a structures engineer over your way for advice on how to provide an equivalent level of strength and stiffness if you don't hear back from Kitfox.

[DirtFox]

.."talk to a structures engineer over your way for advice"
Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Changing anything on the airframe is not something I would personally do just by looking at it then run over to the bench grabbing a hacksaw and a welder :) or just by putting it through SolidWorks with stress test software etc. It's not something to do for anyone without a look at and sign-off from a qualified aircraft engineer who specializes in these things. I come from a mechanical background but that's with auto racing (dragsters) so aware of the dangers and seriousness of this.

Speaking of such, you come from Melbourne? Are they still doing illegal street drags in Cherry Lane in Laverton and the rear of the Ford factory in Broadmeadows ('Broady' we used to call it or actually more Camberfield)? Those were fun times. But I guess I'm just showing my age. The user pic is actually me in Fitzroy on the bike on George St. in the good ol' days.

[David47]

Speaking of such, you come from Melbourne? Are they still doing illegal street drags in Cherry Lane in Laverton and the rear of the Ford factory in Broadmeadows ('Broady' we used to call it or actually more Camberfield)? Those were fun times. But I guess I'm just showing my age. The user pic is actually me in Fitzroy on the bike on George St. in the good ol' days.

Yep, I’m from Melbourne, born and bred. I went to secondary school at Glenroy Tech, just south of ”Broady”. Knew the area well. Tough gangs in that area during my time there (1950’s to early 60’s). I think the drag racing anywhere around Melbourne is now confined to the drag racing venue out along the Calder highway, called, would you believe Calder Raceway !. Originally built by Bob Jane which helped to formalise the sport. Great venue. Were you born in Aus or just visiting ?

[DirtFox]

..Calder Raceway !. .. Were you born in Aus or just visiting ?

Oh defo born. Grew up in the Western suburbs, Altona & Williamstown. Thus the bad boy edge for illegal drags. Yeah, knew of the gangs out at Broadmeadows but didn't hang out with them. We used to do legal ones too though and I know Calder very well. We had a light engineering business, used to have a second gen. HQ Monaro (fiberglass body) funny car and a top fuel dragster back in the early years of ANDRA during the mid-late 70's. Left for Sydney eventually and was there for a while between living in Mt. Isa in Qld would you believe. Been all over. Another bike I was on broke down in Norseman, WA once going from Melb. to Perth on a Kwaka 900 Z1. That was pretty wild. Like 800 men and ten women. You can imagine what the fights were over. It's also the only place I've seen where the local cop car had a roll cage, 351 V8 and the cops had tatts. Wouldn't recommend that place for a holiday. Now my time is half in Europe and half in the 'States in California. Haven't been back for gosh, maybe 15 years or more. Still have a house in Sydney though. Now and again over the years I look up who the Prime Minister is lately and have a laugh. What I miss is the humour and VB. I did find some Crown Lager over here once though but I don't touch the usual Fosters. The downside living away is no one gets Australian humour. You say something funny and they really don't get it and look at you like you're serious or an idiot. I feel like Bazza McKenzie.

Starting a Kitfox 7 STi project out at Camarillo [KCMA], CA. My old biz partner in Melbourne was ex-Qantas, mech engineer so picked up a lot from him. Now I'm hanging around the Kitfox forum learning and picking up things. I used to go gliding in Bacchus Marsh with the Geelong Gliding Club before taking up powered. Nowhere near Geelong though : ) ..also flew now and again at the RAAF base in Laverton, up in Benalla too along with a few other places, esp. for gliding championships where I was crew. Too young to be an entrant in those days, wouldn't want to take on someone like Ingo Renner. Started when I was 14 turning 15. Could fly before I knew how to drive. Used to pay for it through working full time jobs during the summer and other hols mostly. Parents never paid zip. They thought I was wasting my time. Re Kitfox I'll be coming up with some more stupid stuff too like putting mechanically operated slats on the leading edge of the wing, not fixed but pilot controlled among other mods. My father said I always had a big head, I was too big for my boots and had too high and mighty ideas and he was right I guess. Speaking of such I might even throw on a Verner Scarlett 9S radial although the new Rotax 915iS looks very tempting at moment.

[David47]

Ok, so now I understand. You're an Expat. You picked a great country to live in though. My younger years were spent around Pascoe Vale, Glenroy, the illegal motorbike track under the trestle bridge near Broadmeadows and I followed the scramble bikes at Tracey's speedway in Maribynong. So I have a history with bikes as well. My current ride is a BMW 1150 GS, which I'm about to sell. Don't want to come off it because if I do I'll most likely lose my CASA medical, so my Kitfox takes precedence ... rightly so. I too had an interesting early life - rock band, motor bikes, old cars and of course aeroplanes. I've done some travelling through Oz and have been to both Mt Isa and Norseman. The latter struck me as a halfway point to nowhere. Mt Isa was good though and enjoyed the stay. If you start a thread, I'll follow along. Good luck with the build, especially those LE slats !.