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captainphx
08-07-2018, 09:41 AM
Hello everyone. My first post on the forum. A few weeks ago my wife and I flew up to Boise to checkout Kitfox. Dave and Debra were great to talk to and gave us a tour of the factory. A few days after that I placed an order for an STi with all the options. Due in Feb, 2019. I am planning a Rotax 915is and an Airmaster prop. Right now I am heavy into research on an all Garmin cockpit G3X system.

A little background...

I am an A&P but I haven't worked in that field in 30 years. Been flying professionally my whole life and will retire in 5 years. Hope to get this thing done BEFORE I retire! :) Actually, I am hoping to get this done in two years.

This will serve as my first post on my build. I have a two car garage and a separate shop to build it in. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do to prep the "hanger" before receiving it?

My N number will be N915KF

Looking forward to being a part of this community!

Paul

jiott
08-07-2018, 10:02 AM
Welcome. We look forward to hearing from you.

DesertFox4
08-07-2018, 10:13 AM
Welcome Paul and congrats on chosing the STi option. Sounds like you have plenty of shop space for a comfortable build. Handy tools to have are the kind usually found in a shop. Drill press, vice, belt sander, cordless drill, air compressor etc. Most specialty items are of course available from Kitfox Aircraft
like reamers, clecoe pliers. A pop rivet squeezer is needed. A nice assortment of drill bits especially size 30 and 40. Extra long drill bits in size 30 and 40 are handy. A right angle drill is handy also. I’m sure others will mention things that make building easier. You might do a search for more ideas and check out the sticky posts on building tips in the forums.
Maybe have Kitfox Aircraft send your build manual early so you can start studying.

Av8r3400
08-07-2018, 10:15 AM
Good lights
Clean, bright floor and walls
A decent drill press
Sufficient heat/AC appropriate for where you are located
A wall of peg board or shelves to keep organized all the small parts
Camera
Good WiFi to keep us in the loop on your progress :D

captainphx
08-07-2018, 10:19 AM
Great advise. I did just get my garage floors re-epoxyed and some new cabinetry. Dave mentioned a band saw would be handy.

aviator79
08-07-2018, 11:10 AM
A bandsaw is handy, although not required. I have a cheap one, and it has been sufficient.

You can build wing rotisseries prior to the kit arriving. There are many ideas on the forums, the critical dimension is 27.5 inches between spar centers. I built a fancy fuselage rotisserie.... that didn't work. I then switched to a "tic tac toe" frame on the front, with the tail suspended from the ceiling by a bolt and fender washer in one of the rudder bosses. This worked well. Easy to rotate with one person. All of this is searchable on the forums to find more info.

Buy some extra clecos, and a bunch of cobalt #30 and #40 drill bits.

Dusty
08-07-2018, 12:11 PM
Great score on the rego:cool:

efwd
08-07-2018, 01:23 PM
Welcome to the Forum. Add to the list an air driven rivet gun. HF has some.
I would not have been able to pull all those SS spar rivets by the time the adhesive set up.

Av8r3400
08-07-2018, 06:57 PM
I used a pair of $50 Harbor Freight engine stands for a fuselage rotisserie. Works great!

A pair of PVC "wishbones" spaced to fit into the spars and then strapped to a pair of sawhorses works great for a wing rotisserie.

Delta Whisky
08-07-2018, 07:13 PM
Regarding the heat/AC - I put in a LG minisplit and have not looked back.

rosslr
08-07-2018, 09:25 PM
Paul,

congratulations on your purchase - nice combo! I am interested if John gave yu any indicative cruise figures for the Sti and 915 combo?? I have been waiting with interest to hear about all the performance figures they have been getting with the factory model.

Anyway, welcome to the forum - I benefited from the wisdom and generosity of the people on here throughout my build and I know will also. Looking forward to your reports.

cheers
ross

Swanny
08-08-2018, 12:51 PM
Welcome Paul!

I have yet to officially introduce myself here, however it sounds like my wife and I are right behind you with our STi build scheduled for mid March delivery! Most of our build will be done in our two car garage and later move into the hanger for final assembly. It sounds like we will have very similar builds so I look forward to piking your brain along the way, Good luck!

captainphx
08-09-2018, 09:47 AM
A bandsaw is handy, although not required. I have a cheap one, and it has been sufficient...

Yes, I think the rotisseries will be coming up soon.

captainphx
08-09-2018, 09:49 AM
Regarding the heat/AC - I put in a LG minisplit and have not looked back.

Yes, thats on my list!

captainphx
08-09-2018, 09:50 AM
Welcome Paul!

I have yet to officially introduce myself here, however it sounds like my wife and I are right behind you with our STi build scheduled for mid March delivery!..Good luck!

Cool, we'll keep in touch!

captainphx
08-09-2018, 09:51 AM
Paul,

congratulations on your purchase - nice combo! I am interested if John gave yu any indicative cruise figures for the Sti and 915 combo?? I have been waiting with interest to hear about all the performance figures....

John said about a 120 mph cruise.

Flyboy66
08-10-2018, 01:54 PM
These are the things I am glad I ordered ahead of time.

60 ml syringes
More Dixie cups (waxless)
Numbered drill bit set.
9/32 drill bit (for door latch holes. Manual calls for a .280 hole)
#30 drill bits (a dozen)
#40 drill bits (6)
A couple hundred popsicle sticks
6 foot level (for setting dihedral)
A few rolls of painters tape

Cloth swatches. ( I cut hundreds from T-shirt material). I use them for cleaning up after applying hysol to everything. Paper towels will work, but leaves behind bits of paper.

Dremmel tool and about 40 of the reinforced cutting wheels. The regular cutoff wheels wear out way too fast.
10 to 15 of the larger drum sanding parts, and 10 of the smaller diameter sanding drums.

Scotch sanding pads (7447 I think, they are maroon colored)

captainphx
08-10-2018, 02:00 PM
Wow, great list, thanks Flyboy!

Flyboy66
08-10-2018, 06:01 PM
Someone else had a builders wishlist here. I just added a couple things.

captainphx
05-03-2019, 03:23 PM
Hello Everyone,

I'm back, finally after the long wait for the Kitfox to arrive. John, himself delivered, and during a rare snowstorm here in Arizona, no less! I did order it with bare metal instead of powder coat, so the first thing I had to do was to take it to Arizona Aircraft Painting in Mesa to get things painted. I am doing a similar paint job as Kitfox's STi, but a little different.

During this whole last year, I busied myself with adding two more stalls onto a 3 car garage. One stall is a dedicated shop, two stalls are for the build, and the other two are for cars and other junk. We then re-epoxied the floor, got some additional cabinets, installed a heater a/c, installed strip curtains to wall off the two stalls for the build from the other two stalls to create a nice conditioned space to work in. Then I ordered a band saw and installed a new 60 gallon compressor and a few other tools. I managed to get all this completed just before it came back from the paint shop.

I have now been actually building for a few days, and started with the tail first. A few pics to follow.
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captainphx
05-03-2019, 03:30 PM
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captainphx
05-03-2019, 03:32 PM
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rosslr
05-03-2019, 03:38 PM
OMG! that workshop is stunning!! What a beautiful space for building your Kitfox.

All the best for the build and I look forward to the updates.

cheers

ross

airlina
05-03-2019, 03:52 PM
Thats not a garage, thats an airplane factory , have fun Bruce N199CL

efwd
05-04-2019, 05:57 AM
Looking good Paul. No shortage of Man crap in that place. Buggy, Motorcycle, Truck, Cabover Camper and an airplane project. Except the motorcycle, I have been browsing the internet for the truck, Cabover, and Razor myself. I had a motorcycle but I was going to get killed on our California highways. I split traffic far too long here and figured before my luck ran out I sold it. Guess I now know I need to make a stop in Cave Creek when I fly in to Scottsdale to visit my best friend. Need to see that Green in person!. Have fun with the build.
Eddie

captainphx
05-04-2019, 10:40 AM
Hey Eddie,

Yes that lane splitting will get you. If you're interested in knowing about the Four Wheel Camper, PM me. They are great campers. Stop by anytime!

captainphx
05-04-2019, 10:42 AM
My bearing press:

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ken nougaret
05-04-2019, 05:58 PM
Funny, I was never a fan of green til I saw the s7 speedster that Kyle Franklin flew. And your powdercoat looks like the same green. It's beautiful.

captainphx
05-05-2019, 07:29 AM
Yes, and when you decide to do a color like this, you have real second thoughts, doubts, but... I have a vision. We'll see how it works out! Thanks.

aviator79
05-08-2019, 07:42 AM
I do like the green powdercoat, but I'd consider painting the tubes a dark color where they will reflect off the interior of the glass.

Holy cow I'm jealous of your build space. I think my paint would have turned out better if I'd had the space to construct a proper paint booth.

Meyer
05-09-2019, 05:42 AM
Nice setup and it's coming along nicely!!! I grew up in Yuma!!

captainphx
05-09-2019, 12:05 PM
Yes, I have read on this forum about the reflections. I'll have to wait and see if that bothers me or not.

captainphx
05-09-2019, 12:08 PM
Out of town for a week on vacation, so work has stopped temporarily, but I brought the fuselage section of the kit fox manual along for some light reading! ;) Cant wait to get started on that.

captainphx
05-20-2019, 08:36 AM
Got back from a little vacation and got right back to work on the Kitfox. Got the ribs installed on the H Stab and Elev. Got the end caps installed. I used Balsa. Ordered some Superfill and will finish them off with that here in a few days. Everything's going pretty well so far. I am really enjoying this. I'm really anxious to move this thing along. As you may know I had my metal parts shipped unpainted. I took them to a paint shop. My plan is to do a paint scheme similar to the Factory Sti. I emailed Kitfox and asked them exactly what color their a/c was and they told me it is called Rancho Silver. So I had the paint shop paint the struts that color. I was thinking about using Oratex Silver, but it took so long for their sample to arrive and I just went ahead and painted the struts. Turns out that the Rancho Silver has a bit of a gold flake in it. I don't remember that when I saw the factory STi. It is absolutely beautiful, so it looks like no Oratex for me...polyfiber and paint. Anyway, what follows is a few pics of the progress.

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captainphx
06-04-2019, 12:13 PM
Has anyone used/made a fuselage rotisserie that let you keep the HS attached or should it be removed?

Meyer
06-04-2019, 12:34 PM
I would say remove it. It would have to be a large rotisserie

captainphx
06-04-2019, 02:36 PM
Looking for a suggestion...

Doing a particularly difficult ream. Trying to ream the mounting holes where the trim actuator scissor link attaches to the HS stab. Not a lot of room to work. I did cut the .1875 reamer shorter. Got thru the aircraft left hole, and now am trying to get thru the aircraft right hole. That hole seems somewhat undersized, requiring the need for the reamer to remove a fair amount of material. I can't even get the reamer to start in the hole. There is so little room to work, I can't get much pressure on the reamer. Anyone have any suggestions?

Meyer
06-05-2019, 06:28 AM
One option is take a small rat tail file and try to take the powder coat off. Obviously use it symmetrically.

captainphx
06-05-2019, 07:41 AM
Yeah, I think my reamer has gotten dull and I ordered a new one. Coming tomorrow. Hopefully it will bite. Tried the rat tail file but it is too long. I must've missed this hole during reaming. Now the ribs are installed making for a very tight area to work in.:(

captainphx
06-09-2019, 12:43 PM
Question on the plastic left side control column bearing....manual says to sand it to fit snug. I haven't sanded mine at all and it fits not quite as snug as I would like. How was your bearing? Did it need sanding? Mine has a bit of play.

efwd
06-09-2019, 01:11 PM
I actually had to remove material so that two halves would mate closer. Then I found I removed too much so I had to shim it.

captainphx
06-09-2019, 01:45 PM
So you shimmed the mating surface, or the bearing surface? What with?

efwd
06-09-2019, 05:47 PM
shimmed only surfaces that involve the bolts. No shim inside the radius. You can use anything really but I had the slivers of material that I had removed on the band saw. I just smoothed them out on the belt sander and slipped it between the mating surfaces before the bolts.

jiott
06-09-2019, 09:55 PM
Paul, make absolutely sure that left side plastic bearing block is installed and bolted to final torque before you decide if you have too much or too little clearance. Tightening the bolts makes a very definite difference. Fitting it up on the bench with hand tight bolts is not the way to evaluate clearance. Maybe you already know this, but just a reminder.

DesertFox4
06-09-2019, 10:39 PM
I too remove ever so slightly too much material and repaired exactly as Eddie did with a very thin stainless shim material in the same location as Eddie and yes Jim’s advice would likely prevented my needed shimming. No harm though. Works perfect now. Live and learn.

captainphx
06-10-2019, 08:19 AM
Thanks guys, I got the plastic bearing fitted properly. Thanks for the suggestions. Sorry to ask so many questions. Trying to fit the bronze bearings into the the control column mounting bracket. What prep did you do before pressing the bearings in. Ream the bracket? Take down the bearing diameter chucked up in a drill press?

airlina
06-10-2019, 08:39 AM
One trick I always try before removing any material on a bearing that is supposed to be a press fit is to put the bearing in the freezer for a few hours before installation. Sometimes its close enough that the shrinkage allows for the install without any material removal. Bruce N199CL

captainphx
06-10-2019, 10:16 AM
Are the stick pivot bearings supposed to be seated all the way down into the bottom of the bushing or just flush with the control column bushing?

Meyer
06-10-2019, 11:16 AM
I believe they should be all the way down. You could lay it on a table and put the specified bolt through it, along with some calipers and do a prelim measurement without full install if that makes sense.

captainphx
07-14-2019, 11:06 AM
What tools and methods have people used to trim the rudder control horns for the adjustable rudder pedal option?

Shadowrider
07-14-2019, 11:34 AM
Milwaukee cordless grinder with cutoff wheel. The most used tool I have bought for the kitfox. Use it for cutting aluminum panels to cutting windows to cutting fiberglass, cutting cowl, etc.

captainphx
07-14-2019, 11:37 AM
Thanks Dustin, I have one of those.

efwd
07-14-2019, 05:11 PM
those of us who have cut those before fabric, have had to rectify the problem that will certainly present. The clearances that the manual speaks too are all voided when the fabric layers go down. The result will be that your rudder will need to be adjusted out further to accommodate the added fabric. That results in greater deflection of the rudder than when the horn was cut. Recently, some of us have discussed the remedy here in the forum.

aviator79
07-14-2019, 07:37 PM
I think he's taking about the horns on the torque tubes, but your advice is timely Eddie. It's good to wait on adjusting the rudder mounting ball ends and trimming the rudder stops until after covering. This is one of the few errors in the manual. I estimate a large majority of builders have to go back and figure out how to make adjustable rudder stops.

captainphx
07-14-2019, 09:14 PM
those of us who have cut those before fabric, have had to rectify the problem that will certainly present...

Whew Eddie!!! I had just finished cutting these when I read your post. I was asceered there for a minute, that I screwed up! But you alerted me to a future problem for which I am very grateful. Thank you!

Shadowrider
07-14-2019, 09:27 PM
I cut mine and my brother did also as per instructions, but after the fact read that some had issues with clearance. With that in mind we kept the fabric tight, and did not have clearance issues.

efwd
07-15-2019, 07:08 AM
Crap, Im sorry Paul. Thanks Brian

captainphx
07-16-2019, 12:15 PM
So, what's the round hole in the center of the console for?

aviator79
07-16-2019, 01:50 PM
Probably the parking brake? If you're not doing a parking brake, just upholster over it.

efwd
07-16-2019, 01:58 PM
Round hole should be the Fuel valve. the parking break is an elongated slit way up toward the front.

captainphx
07-16-2019, 02:29 PM
Yes, Eddie...that must be what it is. Thanks. That fuel shutoff valve is engine dependent? So it comes with the engine? Is that correct?

efwd
07-16-2019, 05:16 PM
Im pretty certain that I got that valve in the Firewall Forward kit as that is when you get all the fuel line stuff etc etc.

captainphx
12-08-2019, 04:49 PM
Well Hello everyone. I've been out of touch for some time now. It's time I should give an update. Progress has been slow but steady. No real issues so far. I am just about completed with the fuselage section of the build manual. Hoping to move on to the wings soon.Getting really antsy to get this thing further along. Can't wait to get it in the air. Here are some photos showing the work done so far


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captainphx
12-08-2019, 04:57 PM
Sorry, some of those are old photos. Will post many more here shortly.

captainphx
12-08-2019, 05:02 PM
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captainphx
12-08-2019, 05:07 PM
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captainphx
12-08-2019, 05:09 PM
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captainphx
12-08-2019, 05:14 PM
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bbs428
12-08-2019, 11:50 PM
Lot's of great progress! Enjoyed all your pic's.

captainphx
12-13-2019, 02:23 AM
Regarding the trimming of the acrylic bubble doors....I know some here advocate using a dremel with a diamond wheel and some prefer a bandsaw. I used a diamond wheel on the first door and a bandsaw on the second. My opinion is a bandsaw is a much better choice. It was far easier and faster to cut and I was able to make a more straight cut. I used a 16 TPI (teeth per inch) blade at about 2000 fpm.

Shadowrider
12-13-2019, 09:42 PM
I think the handiest tool I bought was a milwaukee cordless grinder with some 4" cutoff wheels. Its like the binford 5100 dremel. :)

captainphx
12-16-2019, 11:24 AM
I pretty much have my doors trimmed down to their final size, except for the forward edge where there is a slight change in angle. There is a weldment there. Are you guys trimming the acrylic bubble door around the weldment or are you taking down the weldment?

efwd
12-16-2019, 02:01 PM
I did neither. If I understand the spot your concerned about I will just say that you should consider the seal that will be installed. It will not allow the plexiglass to make contact with the airframe itself.

captainphx
02-08-2020, 02:54 PM
Project moving along, but slowly.

Installing the spar reinforcement brackets. Did you guys ream the brackets out prior to installing them? My .3125 reamer won't make a dent in those steel brackets. Build manual doesn't mention it.

jrevens
02-09-2020, 01:11 AM
Paul,

I think those are pretty hard steel. If you don't use enough lubricant, or go a little too slow and don't use enough steady pressure, heat builds up and the steel can become hardened in the area of contact with the cutting tool. It's easy to dull a reamer if that happens. That might be what you have encountered. You could get the reamer re-sharpened or buy a new one & try again, keeping the above points in mind, or you might have to use a cobalt reamer.

captainphx
02-09-2020, 08:55 AM
Thanks John, that is the conclusion I came up with. My reamer is very dull. Ordered a new cobalt one yesterday. Thank you for your reply!

captainphx
03-06-2020, 12:48 PM
Been away from the airplane for awhile. Back at it again. Working on the left wing, forward spar, lower reinforcement bracket installation. I have included a few photos. It appears the hole that was drilled into the spar at the factory for the clevis pin is not exactly centered on the spar. It is drilled slightly aft of top dead center. Both the upper and lower hole. It can be seen in the photo below. Although it is only slightly aft, it is causing the outer plate to sit incorrectly, leaving a gap at one end of the plate or the other depending on how I align the bracket. I tried several different brackets. Take a look. Is this a problem? Or am I splitting hairs here? Only thing I can think of to get it to lay down better is using a rattail file to slightly elongate the hole in the outer bracket, but this doesn’t seem like a good solution, as I am assuming that the clevis should fit tight. What would be your advice on how to proceed?


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Dave S
03-06-2020, 01:43 PM
Paul,

The slight off center thing isn't abnormal when you consider that the spacing of the front and aft carry through pin holes in the fuselage, which is set, is what determines where the holes in the spar will go. There can be some slight variation in the weldments. The factory put the holes in the spars where they need to go to match the fuselage - don't want to change that.

You are correct, use the rat tail file for something else - you want the pin to fit close and you can't move the holes in the spar if you expect the pins to fit when the wings are done.

On the reinforcing plate, others may have a different solutions; but, I would take it over to my 108 pound anvil, big old hammer and 6 inch vise as necessary and modify the shape of the reinforcing plate till it agrees the spar and lines up with the hole.

jrevens
03-06-2020, 04:01 PM
I'll take a stab at this also, Paul. First of all, I don't believe that those holes need to be a real close tolerance fit. They would not be using clevis pins if they were. The nicer the fit the better, but they're not super critical like many wing attachment designs on aircraft are. If I'm wrong about that I hope that someone else will chime in. As far as your issue goes, I think it might be OK to install as they are, and then carefully run a reamer through everything together. I found that the curvature (ID) of those fittings/brackets, as received from the factory, does not accurately match the OD of the spar tube. I happened to have a piece of steel pipe the same diameter as the spar, and I used that with my press to flatten them out a little so that they fit better and matched the surfaces they were being mounted on.

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airlina
03-06-2020, 05:15 PM
Paul , when the old factory was called Skystar in the late 90's , I took a trip to the factory to do a demo flight. I talked to one of the engineers about my concern about the size of the clevis pin , and he assured me that this was a very low stress area and he even went so far as to say, inflight , if the pin was not there the wing would maintain its position due to forward vector type loads inflight. I'm never gonna test that theory but I did feel better about that skinny clevis. Hasn't failed me in 17 years , although I do replace them every few years. Bruce N199CL

jiott
03-06-2020, 10:57 PM
The shear loads on those clevis pins are nearly zero, and of course there is no tension load. If you want to worry about highly loaded critical bolts, worry about the 3 lift strut bolts, one bottom and two top. That where your life hangs.

efwd
03-06-2020, 11:30 PM
You should not forget to take into consideration that your holes on the plates themselves may not have the holes drilled straight through. In the final photo, what I think I see, is the tolerance of the hole has the walls of the holes lining up with the pin itself and all those holes were all drilled differently. So, imagine your spar holes were drilled way off center. Then you may see that all the holes would be canted off one another and not allow the pin through unless you tilt the plate as you seem to be needing to do to get the pin in. Hope that makes sense.
If I recall, back when I did mine, I swapped all those plates around numerous times and eventually found pairs that seemed to fit closely. I think then I did as John and squashed them a bit more when needed. I only had like two I did that to.

captainphx
03-07-2020, 06:54 AM
Thanks everyone! Great advise. Problem solved. I did use my press to reduce the radius and then reshaping a bit with a vice and it lays down pretty flat now.

Jim-thanks for pointing that out
Eddie-Yeah, that is what I was thinking when talking about using a rat tail file...to change the angle of the hole wall slightly, but chose not to try that.
John and Dave..thanks, I used a combo of your suggestions.

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captainphx
03-09-2020, 05:01 PM
Just looking ahead a bit and I have a couple of questions...if you did cover the inner surface of the butt rib, what did you guys cover it with? Wood, plastic, fabric?
If you painted your butt rib stack, what did you paint it with?

jiott
03-09-2020, 05:22 PM
I covered the inside surface with fabric and cut out the center hole for fuel gauge visibility. Butt rib was painted with the aircraft finish paint/color.

PapuaPilot
03-09-2020, 06:21 PM
I did the same as Jim. I actually covered the outside and painted it all white and cut out the center hole.

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captainphx
03-09-2020, 10:50 PM
Thanks guys!

I was also asking earlier how people finished the butt rib stack, but I meant the #1 rib stack?

aviator79
03-10-2020, 05:45 AM
I bonded some Aluminum into the rib openings, and painted everything black.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/agRdV7yfKGCjyam7Ahttps://photos.app.goo.gl/agRdV7yfKGCjyam7Ahttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0SI5ffod6aQxEZYSlAkYdVGvB1lOppFAwgalrudkELN6qVJZw8 2Wow4hxgDnLZnmXZ9rnEZosOBlPnDR4rAvuBWsOX5MywNqHuF_ XiULWozL5ucShjfM3sRSfjpHYXNa_NLSjd_fcvw=w600

efwd
03-10-2020, 09:12 AM
I would venture to guess most people leave the ends of the wings without cover. When your Butt rib is closed you don't see the root of the wing. If it (#1 rib) is covered, inspection of the inside of the wings is then limited.

jiott
03-10-2020, 09:53 AM
I definitely agree with Eddie, don't cover the inboard (or outboard) end of the wing. You want to be able to look in there for inspections.

captainphx
03-10-2020, 11:09 AM
Thanks Guys. I am just trying to get a handle on just what parts of what ribs are exposed, or can be seen from inside the cockpit, and in need of painting. I don't want to see any clear varnished rib from inside the cockpit. The entire number one rib stack, I am thinking of painting black. As well as the butt rib. The only area where I am a bit unsure is the cap strip of the transition rib ( the one next to the butt rib). In looking forward in the manual, I see that the cap strip of the butt rib is covered by the windshield skylight. I am bit unsure of what covers the cap strip of the transition rib. I am thinking that the fabric covering the wing comes over the main rib #1, then down the filler rib and then wraps over the cap strip of the transition rib. Thus receiving the same paint as the wing. Is this correct? If anybody has pics of the wing to skylight transition area, that would be great. Until yesterday, I did not realize that the skylight was not flush with the top of the wing.

efwd
03-10-2020, 01:34 PM
Your going to want to paint your butt rib if you cover it or not. I just filled in the two holes in the web of the butt rib with 1/8 ply that I cut to fit. No fabric on my butt ribs. Having used Oratex fabric, I just wrapped the fabric around the #1 rib cap strip and terminated it at the web. I have not painted the #1 rib. It is still lacquer finish. Unless you fold the wing back you won't know it isn't painted. You certainly would be fine wrapping your fabric down onto the web of the #1 rib leaving your holes open, then painting it along with the wing

jiott
03-10-2020, 02:00 PM
Paul, there is no "transition" rib, at least on the SS7. The #1 wing rib sits right next to the Butt rib.

captainphx
03-10-2020, 04:58 PM
Paul, there is no "transition" rib, at least on the SS7. The #1 wing rib sits right next to the Butt rib.The STi has a transition rib. Didn't know SS7 did not. You can see what they look like when together. Butt rib on the right.242062420524207

efwd
03-10-2020, 05:15 PM
24208

SS7 super sport standard wing.

captainphx
03-10-2020, 06:23 PM
24208

SS7 super sport standard wing.

Thanks Eddie, I was wondering how the fuel sight gage would look.

captainphx
03-18-2020, 02:05 PM
Just thinking ahead bit. I don't want to run out of Hysol. The kit comes with the two cans, 2.5 pounds each. How much more hysol do you think is needed. I was looking online and I found one place in NY that sells it in the same quantity, but they want $143 plus $65 for shipping. Where do you guys get this. There are many other places that sell it but in smaller quantities, including Aircraft Spruce.

Delta Whisky
03-18-2020, 05:56 PM
As to how much is needed: The only hysol work I have yet to do is mounting the fairings on the lift stuts and I have about 1/3 of the original hysol left. As to buying in quantity: the most important detail to share is that it doesn't seem to age well. At about one year old the white part (is that part A?) developed small "chunks". Brandon informed me that it can be made well by very brief heatings in a micro wave and that worked well. (You have to be careful to not get it too hot.) Today (now 2 years old) I needed to use/mix some and was surprised that the "chunks" were much worse and it took a lot of careful heating and mixing to get it back to its original consistency. I don't know how its strength has been affected, if at all, but I'm not using it in a critical application. It appears to be setting up normally. All this is to say that I won't be, and don't recommend, buying any in advance.

jiott
03-18-2020, 06:54 PM
I needed a small amount after my large cans ran out, so I bought the small 500ml tubes.

DesertFox4
03-18-2020, 08:28 PM
(Page 28 of Kitfox Aircraft’s parts catalog.)

50 ml. tubes of Hysol for $20.54. Part # 32733.000
Hand plunger for 50 ml. tubes $2.91. Part # 10540.222
EA 9460 2-1qt cans $ 139.00 Part # 01139.000

captainphx
03-18-2020, 09:17 PM
[QUOTE=DesertFox4;90614](Page 28 of Kitfox Aircraft’s parts catalog.)

50 ml. tubes of Hysol for $20.54. Part # 32733.000
Hand plunger for 50 ml. tubes $2.91. Part # 10540.222
EA 9460 2-1qt cans $ 139.00 Part # 01139.000[/QUOTE

Great info...thx Desert Fox!

aviator79
03-19-2020, 04:40 AM
50 ml. tubes of Hysol for $20.54. Part # 32733.000
Hand plunger for 50 ml. tubes $2.91. Part # 10540.222
EA 9460 2-1qt cans $ 139.00 Part # 01139.000

The hand plunger works okay if you don't use mixing nozzles. McMaster Carr sells a reasonably priced dispensing gun. The gun, mixing nozzles, and tubes make using Hysol a real pleasure, and you waste much less Hysol. It's definitely not cheap though. McMaster also sells the tubes of 9460, but buy them from Kitfox if you can.

Links:
Dispensing Gun (https://www.mcmaster.com/74695a71)
Nozzles (https://www.mcmaster.com/74695a12) (1-time use ea.)

captainphx
03-19-2020, 08:23 AM
Thanks Brian, I will try the dispensing gun.

captainphx
03-19-2020, 08:33 AM
BTW, I am so thankful to have this forum! Not only for the great info you all give, but also to keep my mind off the craziness in the world right now! Thank you all. Stay well!

efwd
03-19-2020, 09:32 AM
I agree with Brian. I think him and I met during his purchase of these items here in CA. But, definetly get the gun. It makes laying your beads down on the spar for the leading edge installation so much easier. The second reason is the fact you can put a tip on, use a little, and cap it all back up without waste.

jiott
03-19-2020, 09:44 AM
If you choose to not get the gun and mixing nozzles it is still very easy to use. The hand plunger pushes out an exact 50/50 amount that you can easily mix with a popsicle stick. Keeps costs down, and yes as Eddie said you can cap off a partially used tube for later with no waste.

captainphx
03-19-2020, 02:49 PM
So just to make sure I understand....the two parts are thoroughly mixed in the nozzle as it is pushed thru...comes out gray?

captainphx
03-19-2020, 03:00 PM
As to how much is needed: The only hysol work I have yet to do is mounting the fairings on the lift stuts and I have about 1/3 of the original hysol left. As to buying in quantity: the most important detail to share is that it doesn't seem to age well. At about one year old the white part (is that part A?) developed small "chunks". Brandon informed me that it can be made well by very brief heatings in a micro wave and that worked well. (You have to be careful to not get it too hot.) Today (now 2 years old) I needed to use/mix some and was surprised that the "chunks" were much worse and it took a lot of careful heating and mixing to get it back to its original consistency. I don't know how its strength has been affected, if at all, but I'm not using it in a critical application. It appears to be setting up normally. All this is to say that I won't be, and don't recommend, buying any in advance.

Unopened Hysol 9460 should be stored at 36-46 degrees F. Opened hysol should be stored between 46 and 69F. Max storage temp 82F

efwd
03-19-2020, 04:25 PM
That is correct. The tips for the prefilled syringes have channels that mix the two halves and it exits grey. Get more than you think youll need. I think I bought 20 tips total. Still have some left. I think I bought 4 or 5 double barrel pre-filled syringes. I think I have one left. I didn't install a Laker leading edge BTW.

jrevens
03-20-2020, 10:40 AM
R.S. Hughes & Amazon have the best prices on the 50 ml tubes that I’ve found - less than $16/tube. They also carry the guns, nozzles, etc. Free shipping with Amazon Prime.

Delta Whisky
03-20-2020, 06:27 PM
Yes, it comes out of the nozzle mixed EXCEPT for the first inch or so of bead. You'll see the color change from black to grey. At least that's how mine performed.

captainphx
04-29-2020, 10:45 AM
Finally have the #1 rib stack installed on both wings. On to the butt ribs and the closeout. I have a couple of questions. I have seen some pics where it looks like the closeout was mounted under the butt rib tabs and others where it looks like the closeout is on top of the tabs, sandwiched between the butt rib and the tab. If done this latter way, two slots were cut into each closeout?

In another post concerning an SS7, Brandon Petersen states the the butt rib brackets get cut down to Full, 1.625, 1.5, and 1.375. Does anyone know if those numbers are correct for the STi, with the triple ribbed #1 stack? The SS7 does not have a rib stack like the STi does.

Last question...the manual states that the butt rib brackets may need to get reamed out to fit over the welded tubes. Mine needed no reaming. They fit loose as a goose. Probably about an 1/8th inch play up and down. Not sure how pop riveting those in with that much play will work. Anyone else have that issue?

Shadowrider
04-29-2020, 01:36 PM
Finally have the #1 rib stack installed on both wings. On to the butt ribs and the closeout. I have a couple of questions. I have seen some pics where it looks like the closeout was mounted under the butt rib tabs and others where it looks like the closeout is on top of the tabs, sandwiched between the butt rib and the tab. If done this latter way, two slots were cut into each closeout?

I will try my best to help. Butt rib install is one of the last things we did. After the butt rib is installed then install the closeouts. You need to trim the closeouts quite a bit.



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In another post concerning an SS7, Brandon Petersen states the the butt rib brackets get cut down to Full, 1.625, 1.5, and 1.375. Does anyone know if those numbers are correct for the STi, with the triple ribbed #1 stack? The SS7 does not have a rib stack like the STi does.

I would not go off any number as far as how much needs to be cut on the butt rib brackets. We had the wings installed and then measured the distance that they needed to be cut to allow the butt rib to be installed and not bottom out on the bracket that is on the fueselage. Each one needed a different length cut off to fit. When installing the butt rib, the most important part is that the top of the butt rib lines up flush, or as brandon recommend slightly above the top of the 1 rib so the window will clear. I set mine flush and then used two layers of the foam to raise it slightly.

Last question...the manual states that the butt rib brackets may need to get reamed out to fit over the welded tubes. Mine needed no reaming. They fit loose as a goose. Probably about an 1/8th inch play up and down. Not sure how pop riveting those in with that much play will work. Anyone else have that issue?

Yes they are loose. You do not want to rivet them in place until you have them set correctly for the correct placement. Once they are all mounted to the butt rib, the play is helpful so they go on the brackets easier.



Not sure why the quoting is not working correctly?

captainphx
04-29-2020, 03:39 PM
Talked to Brandon about the loose brackets. He had me measure wall thickness. Turns out they were made with an incorrect wall thickness. New ones on the way!

Thanks for the pics Justin.

captainphx
05-01-2020, 09:31 AM
Having an issue installing the jury struts. I paid the $3500 upgrade for the streamlined lift struts. I cannot get the front pre-shaped lift strut to jury strut clamps on either wing to come together. They don't even look close to me. The rears went on fine. They appear to be made too short. Anybody have experience with these?

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Shadowrider
05-01-2020, 06:26 PM
Call the factory. I think Casey had the same issues and they had a bad batch go out?

captainphx
05-01-2020, 09:26 PM
Well, I got this issue figured out. Took me a while. This is what worked for me. I installed the rear clamp and got everything pretty close to lined up, perpendicular and all. I marked on the green tape where the clamps should go. Then I removed the rear clamp and installed the front clamp. I did this by laying the jury strut down against the lift strut ( in the uphill direction). This allowed the clamp holes to line up. I did use a slightly longer bolt though. Made it easier to install. Then I raised the jury strut to vertical and installed the rear clamp and fine tuned from there. Pics in the morning. Will install the other one tomorrow.

109JB
05-02-2020, 07:37 AM
Do you have a set of adel clamp pliers? Looks like that would have been a prime candidate.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/installatinoPliers.php

captainphx
05-02-2020, 05:00 PM
Thanks John...ordered the adele pliers.

A few pics...

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bbs428
05-07-2020, 10:39 AM
Great progress! I can relate to the craziness! Our shop is a place of sanity. Lol. ;)

captainphx
05-07-2020, 05:05 PM
What do you guys use for fitting sealant for the fittings in the fuel tank? The manual says it should be gasoline imperious.

bbs428
05-07-2020, 09:46 PM
EZ turn sealant. Good stuff. Aircraft Spruce.
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jrevens
05-07-2020, 11:08 PM
Hi Brett,

Have you used this successfully (for an extended period of time) on tapered pipe threads in a fiberglass structure? There are conflicting opinions and experience with this product, which is equivalent to Fuel Lube, and many people claim that it is all they ever use on fuel fittings. It was originally designed for use with plug valves, as a lubricant. They also recommend it's use with gaskets. It is a lubricant, and good for that purpose, but is not a "sealant" in the conventional sense. It definitely shouldn't be used on tapered pipe threads in high pressure applications, which our fuel systems aren't of course. Brake fittings would be an example. The threads in our fiberglass fuel tanks can be relatively non-precision and a little crude. Something that cures and has some "filler", as well as lubricating properties would seem to be a surer bet. I'm just curious about your experiences with it.

efwd
05-07-2020, 11:23 PM
Would you believe that the original product (blue stuff) that the build manual suggests for the brake fittings did not work for me but this EZ lube is. I will admit that at first it started off failing just like the Permatex product but after several days it dried up and is still working on my brake fittings now for a year.

bbs428
05-08-2020, 06:19 AM
Appreciate the question John. I was an owner of a boat maintenace business in San Diego after I retired from the USN. I stumbled onto this product while in the boatyard. A seasoned mechanic said I should use it and have used this product ever sense on all my npt fuel fittings on steel, aluminum, and fiberglass tanks. Usually with brass or stainless fittings. Always did the job.

As my plane is NOT yet flying, I have ZERO experience with it on an airplane!

I never have used it like Eddie has on brake pressure fittings. Nice to know that it worked!

Disclaimer - Jmho and it worked well for me in the past. I have no interest in the product other than that.
With luck this thread will not turn into what's the best to "oil" use, lol. ;)

captainphx
05-08-2020, 09:09 AM
I have this, but:

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I am questioning because the build manual states that it should be fuel impervious rather than just resistant. Can't find a fuel "impervious" sealant online. Do any of you use this?

jiott
05-08-2020, 10:35 AM
Paul, that is what Kitfox recommends and I believe they use it on their factory built SLSA's. I still use the old Loctite 9AR; It has worked perfectly for me on all NPT fittings, fuel, oil, and brake, in steel, aluminum and fiberglass for 7 years now without a leak. Just my experience.

captainphx
05-08-2020, 10:44 AM
Thanks Jim. Yes I have that too. Glad to know that's what works.

jrevens
05-08-2020, 12:13 PM
That's what I used on the tanks also, although it (the 9AR) isn't available anymore... anybody know if there is a direct equivalent available from Loctite?

captainphx
05-08-2020, 12:39 PM
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I believe this is essentially the direct replacement. Permatex used to be owned by Loctite. My 9AR says Permatex on the tube. There is still some 9AR left on Amazon.

RobS
05-08-2020, 04:08 PM
I would think this would be a good alternative: https://www.alliedelectronics.com//PDF/Gasoila/soft-set%20thread%20sealants.pdf They make a hard-set too.




I believe this is essentially the direct replacement. Permatex used to be owned by Loctite. My 9AR says Permatex on the tube. There is still some 9AR left on Amazon.

jiott
05-08-2020, 08:08 PM
I didn't have any trouble finding the 9AR on Amazon and E-Bay. Its probably older left-over stock, but if its not opened it seems to have very long shelf life.

captainphx
05-09-2020, 10:16 AM
Sorry for all the questions...What is the desired number of fitting threads that should be inside the fiberglass tank taps. My fuel tank strainer only goes in 3 threads when it is snugged up good. I have cleaned up the threads very well using my tap. Seems like it should go in a bit further, but I don't want to cut too far in with my tap.

Also, I did the leak check as stated in the manual by taping over all of the openings. No leaks in the tank surface, seams, or laminations. So, after that test, I decided to try it again using plugs in all the holes, no sealant, just snugged up and check the fittings. No leaks except for the fuel strainer, where I am getting a slight bit of bubbling at the fiberglass . Granted there is no sealant, but should I be concerned, or should I be confident the the sealant will seal it? The manual doesn't say to do this type of check, but seems like a good idea.

Fuel strainer with plug:

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jrevens
05-09-2020, 12:34 PM
Paul,

In my opinion, if the fitting's threads are making contact with the complete depth of thread in the tank, that's good. That's much better than having the hole tapped too deeply where you run out of options with the tapered threads when the fitting bottoms out and it's still leaking. If the end of the fitting isn't penetrating the full depth of the threaded hole you can carefully tap it a little deeper.

Your test sounds good to me. You shouldn't expect to necessarily have good seals at the fittings without sealant.

captainphx
05-09-2020, 12:49 PM
Thanks John!

efwd
05-09-2020, 08:46 PM
I tapped mine deeper. I have 1.5 -2 threads showing. I will admit I was nervous. I have not done a whole lot of tapping in my life. I believe your on the right path and I will tell you why I believe so. This strainer/fitting assy. will later on reveal that if you don't keep it all up as tidy as you can, you will need to trim your tank flanges. Maybe to add more clarity I can say, that the number one rib needs to be the farthest away from this strainer fitting assy. as possible to enable the clearance needed to remove the strainer during inspection. If it isn't, you will have to trim the fuel tank edges further so that you can slide the tank away from the first rib. Now you have another leak test to do and until done you will be concerned about just how much you can get away with trimming.. Just thought this might help before you find out later.

captainphx
05-10-2020, 03:28 PM
Thanks Eddie. Your post sent me back to the manual to take a closer look. After comparing the wing build chapters of the STi with the SS7, I discovered they are quite different. For instance, the tank doesn't sit on top of the spar re-inforcement plate, the tank flanges don't get hysoled to the rib capstrips, and there is more room between the inboard edge of the tank and the #1 rib. But I will have to add an access hole to access the tank strainer. I did cut the threads in deeper. I will have about three threads showing on the fittings. The pic below of the strainer is not screwed all the way in.

efwd
05-10-2020, 06:58 PM
Ah Yes, forgot you have a STi

jiott
05-10-2020, 09:52 PM
Wow! That photo really shows how much thicker the STi wing is than the standard. No wonder it is slower and draggier.

captainphx
05-10-2020, 10:14 PM
Wow! That photo really shows how much thicker the STi wing is than the standard. No wonder it is slower and draggier.

Yup..Maybe it's liftier? :D Gotta b a trade off in there somewhere!

Jim and Eddie...you guys always provide great info...thx

captainphx
09-06-2020, 12:35 PM
Been installing the flaperons. Unfortunately I have made an error, and I wanted to run it by you guys. Working on the right wing. Installing the flaperon hinge brackets. I used a 1/8 drill bit taped to the training edge of the wing to get the proper clearance between the bracket and the wing. Installing the #1 and #9 brackets. After drilling, I noticed that my taped on drill bit rotated downwards and I lost most of my 1/8th inch clearance. The #9 bracket is installed correctly. No other hinge brackets are installed yet. I have the flaperon attached to #1 and #9 hinge brackets at the moment and the flaperon rotates freely. My major concern is the fabric install with so little clearance. I am most likely using Oratex. First pic below is the #9 bracket and the second is #1. There is air between the #1 bracket and the wing, but not much.

PapuaPilot
09-06-2020, 03:09 PM
I would suggest redoing the #1 bracket and get it in the right spot. I would replace the backup pieces on the TE of the rib so you can drill new holes in the aluminum. For the longitudinal TE aluminum piece it would be best to put a backup piece of aluminum on the inside; it looks like the existing holes are going to be touching the the new holes.

captainphx
05-31-2021, 12:58 PM
Well, it's been a while since I posted. Project is moving along. Wings are just about ready for cover, fuselage too. Took a poly fiber course in Oshkosh. So now I'm doing Oratex. ;) Oratex fabric should be here in another week or two. Silver. Got my FWF kit along with the carbon fiber cowl. Also received the extended - extended wingtips from Kitfox. Rotax 915is is here too and so is my MT prop. Wiring is well underway. Instruments are mounted on their trays behind the instrument panel. Instrument panel is due to be delivered from Steinair in about a week or so. Her are a few pics...

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Cockpit lighting



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Some little speakers I mounted


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This panel was sent by Stein, but had an error in it. They are making another.


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Clark in AZ
05-31-2021, 01:25 PM
You have been busy! Looking good Paul.

Clark

alexM
05-31-2021, 04:54 PM
Is that bed liner on the butt ribs? I'm copying that for sure.

I was about to order one of those Safety Trim devices. I had no idea they were so large. Did you weigh it by any chance?

captainphx
05-31-2021, 05:37 PM
Is that bed liner on the butt ribs? I'm copying that for sure.

I was about to order one of those Safety Trim devices. I had no idea they were so large. Did you weigh it by any chance?

Yes, it is called Raptor Liner available on Amazon

Didn't weigh it, but it its maybe 4 or 5 ounces. It feels like a feather.

captainphx
06-01-2021, 04:13 PM
Question for you STi builders...the wingtip fence appears to be made of foam board with a fiberglass layer on the outboard side. I have Aeroled's NSP lights that I need to mount on the face of the fence. The Aeroled install instructions call for nut plates on the back side of whatever you are mounting them to, but that will not work with this foam board, plus I can't access the backside anyway. Could just hysol the Aeroled mounting plate to the fence, but trying to think of a better solution. Thought about using screws to mount the plate, but the foam board just doesn't offer enough material strength for the screw to grab onto. Though about nutserts also, but, again the foam board does not seem stout enough for that.How did you guys do your STi?

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SomeDay7
06-03-2021, 08:58 AM
I just opened up the holes enough to pump enough Hysol into each hole to make it firm. Then drilled the Hysol for each screw. Plenty strong and easy.

captainphx
06-03-2021, 09:37 AM
I just opened up the holes enough to pump enough Hysol into each hole to make it firm. Then drilled the Hysol for each screw. Plenty strong and easy.

That is the exact thing that I thought of this AM. Thanks for your reply.

captainphx
06-06-2021, 02:30 PM
Have been wanting to install my Aeroled NSP NAV lights in my STi wing tip fence and was perplexed at the best way to accomplish. Brandon Petersen returned my email and gave me some good ideas and here is how I did it. Thought I'd pass this along so others may know. Of course there are other ways, but this worked really good for me. The problem was that the inside of the fence has a couple of foam layers that are an inch thick each. I wasn't sure if it was OK to cut through it.
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You can see here, when I hold the light behind the wingtip, where one of the 1 inch thick foam layers is.

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And here is the other one.

So first step was to cut an opening in the first layer so you can access the inside of the wingtip...like this.
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Might as well make it an aviation shaped opening while your at it. :D I traced a lightening hole in one of my wing ribs and transferred it here.
I initially cut the opening using a drill and then opened it up with a dremel, then used some sand paper and a file to smooth the opening.


Then I drilled a hole through the fence like so.
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Next I made a backing plate out of .060 that was 2.5" x 1 3/4". Then laid it inside the wingtip on the layer of foam next to the fence and traced around it. Removed it, and again, used a dremel to remove foam material, until I was right down to the foam board that is the actual fence. As you get close, light begins to shine through the foam board fence. The foam board is .25 inch thick.
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Then I taped the backing plate to the outside of the fence, along with the NSP mounting bracket and match drilled some holes. Then added some nut plates. Came out like this.

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Added some self etching primer

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Here it is installed. Final step will be to hysol the plate to the inside of the foam board fence. Mounted the light parallel to the chord line.

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Hope this helps others mount theirs!

taff
06-06-2021, 02:47 PM
I'm curious, why the wing tip fence and not the smooth bladed tip that I am familiar with.

Is there a benefit?

I realize that with the earlier Kitfoxes, some had a droop down profile at the tip.

Geek
06-07-2021, 05:28 AM
Paul - Just saw your post on the STi extended wing tip and light install. THANK YOU!! I have been looking at that while working the wings trying to figure out how I was going to do that. I had come to the conclusion that a backing plate was the 'right' way but hadn't figured on how to execute that. Now I know. Appreciate your taking the time to post that

Gary

captainphx
06-07-2021, 08:32 AM
I'm curious, why the wing tip fence and not the smooth bladed tip that I am familiar with.

Is there a benefit?

I realize that with the earlier Kitfoxes, some had a droop down profile at the tip.

Well, all I can tell you is the theory...At the tip of a wing, where the low pressure above the wing meets the relative high pressure under the wing, a vortex is produced...a horizontal tornado, albeit a small one. That vortex causes drag. The foam board tip of the STi wing acts as a "fence", to block the flow of air from curling over to the top of the wing, thus preventing the vortex and so preventing drag.

captainphx
06-07-2021, 08:35 AM
Paul - Just saw your post on the STi extended wing tip and light install. THANK YOU!! I have been looking at that while working the wings trying to figure out how I was going to do that. I had come to the conclusion that a backing plate was the 'right' way but hadn't figured on how to execute that. Now I know. Appreciate your taking the time to post that

Gary

Glad to help!

taff
06-07-2021, 09:18 AM
Well, all I can tell you is the theory...At the tip of a wing, where the low pressure above the wing meets the relative high pressure under the wing, a vortex is produced...a horizontal tornado, albeit a small one. That vortex causes drag. The foam board tip of the STi wing acts as a "fence", to block the flow of air from curling over to the top of the wing, thus preventing the vortex and so preventing drag.

Thanks!
Sounds reasonable, and maybe even more effective the faster the airplane is traveling. And the heavier the aircraft is. (like commercial airliners)

I was always taught to keep away from Airline wing tip vortexes during my training.
One day I was in an RV4 at about 7000' a airliner crossed our path earlier at maybe 2000' above us. We felt the bumps as we travelled through the descending vortexes.

Commercial airplanes now have the upward flip to the wing tip, to reduce the effect of drag making travel less expensive for 'em. We can't see that in the cost of tickets though.

Eric Page
06-07-2021, 09:53 AM
Wingtip vortices are a real thing, and they're potentially deadly to a plane the size of a Kitfox. I departed KPHX in a CRJ-200 a number of years ago, a bit less than a minute behind an Airbus A319. We got into his wingtip vortices and it rolled our RJ to somewhere between 45 and 60 degrees. I had to hold full opposite aileron for about three seconds to stop the roll and right the plane. I'm sure that encounter would have flipped a Kitfox over and potentially done structural damage.

If you ever fly your Kitfox near large aircraft, take wake turbulence seriously!

captainphx
06-07-2021, 12:06 PM
Getting my wings ready for cover...I went thru the procedure in the manual for checking for leaks in the fuel tanks way back before I installed them. All checked fine. But I was still concerned about a possible leak, thinking that once I cover, and if there is a leak I would become very unhappy. :eek: Clark in AZ, who is building a Superstol, gave me an idea and I decided to try it. I filled my wing tanks with distilled water and allowed them to sit for a bout 8 hours. No leaks!!! :D I did slightly over fill and the water ran out confirming the functionality of my overflow drain. Anyway, I suppose this test is of limited usefulness, because as you can see in the pics where the water level is when the tank is full, and some of the tank seams will not be submersed and so those seams won't be checked. But at least I know my fittings don't leak. I then drained the tanks. The airplane is still probably a year from flying, so I am sure that any water that may still be in there will evaporate. Gives me a little piece of mind before I cover.
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captainphx
06-07-2021, 04:03 PM
When you guys ran your wires through your wing spar, did you tape them together every so often, or did you just run them through.

Shadowrider
06-07-2021, 05:34 PM
I put them in a sleeve to protect them but I don’t think it’s nesscary.
The fuel fittings didn’t start leaking until 1 year into flying and at high altitude where its cold. If I recall you did a banjo fitting which should save you down the road.

jiott
06-07-2021, 08:51 PM
I ran my wires in a light corrugated sleeve inside the rear spar. I think its important because they have to pass by all those rivets sticking thru the spar inserts and the lift strut brackets-lots of chances for vibration to cause abrasion of the wire insulation.

jrevens
06-07-2021, 11:30 PM
That’s how I did it also, for the same reason.

PapuaPilot
06-08-2021, 06:18 AM
I ran my wires in a light corrugated sleeve inside the rear spar...

That's what i did too.

captainphx
06-08-2021, 05:16 PM
I put them in a sleeve to protect them but I don’t think it’s nesscary.
The fuel fittings didn’t start leaking until 1 year into flying and at high altitude where its cold. If I recall you did a banjo fitting which should save you down the road.

Thanks Dustin, yes I have the banjo fittings

captainphx
06-30-2021, 02:21 PM
I am doing my final prep work for the installation of Oratex. What kind of primer did you use on your metal parts, ie trailing edge, door sills, etc? I was thinking of using PTI's epoxy primer, which is a BMS10-11 primer. According to the Better Aircraft Fabric manual, I should acid etch and alodine first. I talked to Lars at BAF yesterday on the phone and he explained the acid etch-alodine procedure to me. He was saying the alodine needs to be flushed thoroughly with hose water. Not really an option for me since my wiring is already installed. He also said I should be wearing a respirator and full body suit. What primer are you guys using?

alexM
06-30-2021, 05:30 PM
Etch and Alodine is ideally done on parts which have been trimmed, fit, drilled and deburred - prior to installation. I just did it to my trailing edges and then installed them last week. No need for respirator and full body suit. I use latex gloves and otherwise avoid bathing in the stuff.

Alodine is not primer. It is great at corrosion prevention and is also a great surface prep for primer/paint. I've done it to pretty much every aluminum part on my plane.

That BMS10-11 is water reducible which is great. Also zero induction time. It is likely less "hot" than the Stits EP-420 stuff most of us are using.

Most often I reach for a can of SprayMax 3680033 2K epoxy. It's two part rattle can stuff. You pop a seal on the bottom and shake it well, then you have 3-4 days to use it up. It sprays on really well.

captainphx
12-28-2021, 02:00 PM
Been a while since I posted…Oratex is now installed except for the fuselage. Just checking as much of the rigging as I can first. Most rigging is set. I am having a little trouble with the aileron rigging though. Manual says that left aileron bellcrank should be set to 26 degrees aft of vertical, and the right bellcrank 32 degrees forward of vertical. I have the left set exactly at 26 degrees aft of vert. When I check the right it is 28 degrees forward of vertical. Since the 2 bellcranks are welded to the same tube, how can I change anything on the right bellcrank? What am I missing here?

Geek
12-28-2021, 02:26 PM
Paul - sorry I can't help with the answer to your question cause I'm not there yet. But I do have a question on your build. I installed the rudder pedals and did the check to see if the inside brake cylinders hit the torque tube when the pedals are forward. They did. Says to grind them off so they don't but doesn't say how much. I was looking at your build and it appears you had to grind yours off as well (You'll recognize the pic). How did you determine how much to grind off and not impact the integrity of your cylinder?

Appreciate any insight before I just go in there and do the deed.

Gary

29573

captainphx
12-28-2021, 03:37 PM
Gary, I remember grinding those but I can’t remember how I achieved the correct clearance now. Here’s a couple of photos. Hope it helps.

2957729576

Geek
12-28-2021, 04:00 PM
Thanks Paul. Appreciate the extra pics. Not one of those things you just want to rush in to.

G

SomeDay7
12-28-2021, 04:18 PM
Geek, I am not worried about that much authority on the rudder. If I have to go there it wouldn't be good anyway.

SomeDay7
12-28-2021, 11:25 PM
Geek, I am not worried about that much authority on the rudder. If I have to go there it wouldn't be good anyway.
You could always temporarily connect your rudder cables up and see how much travel you actually need with 25 degrees of deflection right and left.

captainphx
01-04-2022, 02:50 PM
Been a while since I posted…Oratex is now installed except for the fuselage. Just checking as much of the rigging as I can first. Most rigging is set. I am having a little trouble with the aileron rigging though. Manual says that left aileron bellcrank should be set to 26 degrees aft of vertical, and the right bellcrank 32 degrees forward of vertical. I have the left set exactly at 26 degrees aft of vert. When I check the right it is 28 degrees forward of vertical. Since the 2 bellcranks are welded to the same tube, how can I change anything on the right bellcrank? What am I missing here?


So after an email exchange with Brandon Petersen at Kitfox, I’ve gotten this figured out. Thanks Brandon! I thought I’d share it here in case any others are having the same issue. Brandon said that he has seen those angles to be a little off on some mixers and to just split the difference. He also said that I would get better results if I adjusted aileron linkage on the mixer assembly to 3.7 inches as opposed to the 4 inches stated in the manual. This improved things a lot. I ended up with the left bellcrank at 26.8 and the right at 30.4 degrees. This did require that both aileron connect tube rod ends be adjusted all the way out until the witness holes were “just” 100% covered. BTW, this 3.7 inch adjustment only applies to the STi. Reference page 34 and 35 of the final assembly chapter. Hope this helps someone else.