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tracstarr
02-25-2018, 07:32 PM
Well, I've officially taken the leap and hereby dub my project #Northernfox.

This will be my unofficial post for keeping you updated with progress and frustrations.

Here's my backstory on getting to this point.

Originally, I'm an Icon A5 deposit holder. But, short story short - when they basically doubled the cost I decided no way. I have 2 kids to put through school.

Back in November/December there was a KF6 completed that came up for sale about 5 hours from me. I talked to the owner and was trying to arrange looking at it. However, my knowledge was very limited at the time and I was slow to act. Poof, it was gone.

After poking my nose around here for a few months I made my decision that Kitfox was the way to go and opportunity came at just the right time. I had literally just received back my final quote on a new 7 when that evening my phone dinged with a hit on a kitfox kit for sale. Not wanting to loose out (a second time) I was on the phone in minutes.

After a chat on the phone that night I decided it was worth looking at. It wasn't a 7, but one of the first model 6's. I called a friend currently building a 7 who's also been building for the last 20 years and asked if he wanted to take a drive. Next day we were on the road.

We spent several hours going over the kit, looking at the workmanship and making sure there were no scratches, dings or otherwise that would instantly turn us away. There wasn't. There were/are a few things that needed slight fixing/cleaning up, but only minor things. My friend has an eye for what to look for (I don't) so I'm glad he came along. Long story short, questions were asked and decisions made. I decided it was worth it. It's in great condition, lots has already been completed, it gets me months ahead of the game (current estimated shipping of a new kit is end of Sept 2018), and the price was right - delivery included.

After a few hours of packing it onto the trailer and making sure everything was secure we headed home. The stress wasn't over as delivery would be the next day. Until it was safe in my shop I was going to be worried. But, the next day 10am it arrived. The biggest trouble was getting stuck in the yard trying to turn the trailer around to unload. Everything else appeared to be fine after the trip. A little bit of rubbing from rope used to hang the wings, but only minor.

Now, it begins. Will inventory the hardware and figure out if and what might be missing. There are several items I will be selling as I don't need/want them.

My biggest hurdle right now is I have to finish the basement reno before I can start on this :(

I'm sure a few might be upset that i snatched it up (sorry but not sorry).

DesertFox4
02-25-2018, 11:38 PM
Congrats Keith. The model 6 a great Kitfox. Alway glad to hear that a kit will be finished and flown and not languish in someone’s hangar barn or shop forever.
Look forward to your build progress postings. Enjoy the build.

PapuaPilot
02-26-2018, 07:15 AM
Congrats on the purchase. That is how I got my Model 5 Outback.

Sounds like you have some real motivation to finish the basement reno. We are looking forward to seeing posts on your build.

aviator79
02-26-2018, 07:41 AM
Congrats. If this is the one that went up on the forum last week, I think you got a very good deal. I look forward to seeing your progress.

Esser
02-26-2018, 11:29 AM
Glad to hear Keith. I curious to know if it was the one in Niagra Falls? You’re going to have a blast and if that’s the one, you got a real leg up on the build both time wise and money wise. Looking forward to seeing pictures.

tracstarr
02-26-2018, 12:00 PM
Yep, it's the one from Niagra. I'm now the 3rd builder on this kit. Hopefully the last.

A bit of background on the kit...

The original owner is out of KY and purchased in March 2000. I believe it was one of the first Model 6. The original invoice is still on "Kitfox Outback" headers with 5 scratched out for 6.

There was no original power coating, and I'm told the factory "paint" was removed and then powder coated by original owner.

Some of the build was done by the original owner in the early 2000s, according to the manual and page sign offs. Mostly work on the tail and some of the fuselage.

The second owner purchased and obtained the kit in October 2017. All of the hardware was replaced with new and all of the build that was already done was re-checked and hardware replaced. The build process continued finishing the majority of the fuselage and wings. The wing twist and sweep was completed. The tanks are not mounted nor the last spar or bottom false ribs. The inside of the aluminum tubes of the wings was primed as well.

Now it's up to me to move it along. I'll go over everything as it stands to make sure everything is in tolerance and nothing was missed. Then start on finishing the wings.

I'll then have to make decisions on all of the components and get those ready if anything needs to be mounted prior to fabric. Which, I've decided will be Oratex.

What is it missing....engine and engine mount along with all avionics (including strobes/navs).

It does have engine faring and cowling, but for a c-200. I'm not sure yet if i'll be able to work with this for my 912is or if i'll have to get new.

So, depending on how things look, I forsee putting up for sale
- fairing/cowling
- wheel pants (main) with brackets
- original roll of fabric still unopened and stored out of sunlight (so i'm told)
- all pinking fabric

Northof49
02-27-2018, 10:54 PM
Congrats Keith
On your purchase and good luck
On your build, you won't be disappointed with oratex .

tracstarr
03-14-2018, 08:34 AM
Just a few little updates.

I've secured my engine. I will be going with a 912is Sport factory new. Got a great deal on it (i think anyway) as it's an older model year. They jacked up the prices recently and no longer include exhaust/ring mounts.

I've also ordered from Kitfox all the additional bits I need/want as well as the FWF kit. Probably 6 weeks out on delivery there.

Ordered some Oratex samples - so need to make some decisions on color scheme.

Still working out my avionics situation but pretty sure going all Garmin.

tracstarr
03-28-2018, 11:31 AM
The only progress right now is to report my engine has arrived! Going to crack open the crate tonight and marvel at it's shinyness.

tracstarr
04-20-2018, 01:21 PM
I've been back and forth about making this post for various reasons, but it needs to be done because I need knowledge and experience of this group.

A few days after receiving my purchase of the uncompleted model 6, I noticed something suspicious in the paint that we had not when looking at it before the purchase. In hindsight I feel stupid for missing it (because as you will see it's more than the odd spot).

Anyway, be it lighting or the fact I was running my hand down all parts of the plane getting to know her, that I felt something odd. It wasn't smooth. And it was in more than one place. I noticed it first around some of the interior upper areas when sitting inside, and on further inspection it was apparent that the issue was rather large - as in many many places.

On initial inspection, the paint didn't look smooth, and you could feel it. It looked as if - dare i say - a really bad rust spot was painted over. My heart sank.

I took out the sander and started removing the paint (which was known to be done after the original owner purchased the kit). With little effort, the paint actually started to flake off in small thick pieces, reveling the original factory paint job (i'm assuming). Just in case, I also removed that layer to find what to me looks like perfectly good metal. No rust.

Now here's my concerns. There's a lot of this on the frame, and to be sure I feel that every area has to be cleaned and verified there is no hidden rust. I've done about 6-7 smaller areas and can confirm those are all ok. It appears that it's just a very poorly done paint job, and the bumps are uneven paint.

I've also found areas where there are bubbles and pressing them causes it to flake. Almost all of these areas are on the underside near the tail. But, it comes off so easy I don't see any other option but to remove the paint from all surfaces where fabric will need to be glued. But should I take it further and remove it from the entire frame? I'm not sure I would even consider it. Or should I?

I just feel deflated thinking about it. And not sure what direction I should take here. I've attached several images for clarity.

jmodguy
04-20-2018, 02:30 PM
Might not be a bad idea to get it media blasted and repainted/powdercoated. The covering will be glued to the paint and you certainly don't want that coming loose!

Ronin
04-20-2018, 02:36 PM
I second jmodguy's reply. Looks like to original owner tried to cover up chipped areas of powder-coating.

Leave it alone until your absolutely sure you don't have to weld a tab or a bracket on or remove one, then get it blasted and a fresh powder-coat done.

Esser
04-20-2018, 03:37 PM
I know you’re not going to to like this answer but the fact that you are asking the question, I think you already know.

Get it sand blasted and coated. A shop will do it for you for a reasonable price. You’re still ahead on price of the kit over all and it’s cheap peace of mind.

tracstarr
04-20-2018, 04:56 PM
You're right. I think that's the only reasonable solution here.

Now what about the tail ribs that have been attached on top of this paint job? Just rip them off and start over with new pieces?

The elevator and rudder were done prior to the additional powder coat, so those are fine.

Ugh, it just makes me feel defeated and I've not even really started.

As far as blasting, should I be looking for a shop that can do soda blasting or dry ice?

jmodguy
04-20-2018, 06:25 PM
You might be able to "melt" the hysol. Most epoxy type adhesives can be softened with heat. The ply ribs can be cleaned up and re-used.
Or.... since your coating isnt sticking so well they may just pop off.
As for re-finishing your fuse etc, think positive - you can pick the color you want! Like Esser said, you are still ahead of the cost of buying new...

Dusty
04-20-2018, 09:35 PM
If in doubt have it garnet blasted by a reputable firm. If it's powder coat, soda or dry ice are a waste of time(and a whole lot of money). These two will also only polish any rust.In an ideal world an electrostatic paint job is the best but if powdercoating make sure there is a coat if zinc applied first to stop undercreep if the coating goes damaged.20+years in the industry speaking here.

Esser
04-21-2018, 12:50 PM
Don’t feel defeated. Honestly, decided to do it is the worst part. You will be done and it will never bother you in the back of your head. As for the tail feathers, I would necessarily do them unless you see issues with the paint in those areas. In the future you can redo a tail feather easily if you notice issues. But that’s just my comfort level

tracstarr
04-21-2018, 01:28 PM
@Dusty you obviously have experience, but i would have thought using that medium would have the potential to take off to much metal?

@Esser yeah I was looking at it today. The paint around that area looks pretty good and a test area I wasn't able to chip any off.

I'm going to have a friend who is a plane builder come by this week as well to give his 2 cents.

Thanks everyone.

David47
04-22-2018, 01:27 AM
Others have given good advice, but another opinion FWIW: Sand blasting is good, in fact it's beneficial. Don't leave any of these areas that look dodgy, they may cover nasties such as metal cancer. Take the time now and do it properly otherwise it will always be in the back of your mind. As for Hysol, I needed to move couple of ribs that weren't located well so used a heat gun, around 250C and softened it enough to move things around.

I know it sounds a bit daunting but you'll have (a) peace of mind and (b) good working knowledge of your aircraft structure. Based on what you've done, you may be able to make a case to be considered as part builder. Good luck with your decision.

tracstarr
04-30-2018, 10:34 AM
Well, no one in my local area I've contacted will even consider touching it. Great.

mscotter
04-30-2018, 10:58 AM
you could always buy a sandblasting rig and start doing it yourself. I think you can get them from harbor freight. Not challenging, just tedious...

efwd
04-30-2018, 11:54 AM
if you have some MEK on hand, it will clear paint from the surface with little effort. try it out and see what it is exactly that your looking at underneath. Then, I would do the sandblaster from Harbor Freight myself if the airframe looked unscathed under that paint removed with MEK.
Eddie

tracstarr
06-08-2018, 12:43 PM
Well, two bits of news that's exciting for me.

1- got my shipment from Kitfox with my FFW, LLE and some other bits I needed.

2 - finally (as in yesterday) found someone who is willing and able to take on the blasting and powder coating of my frame. He's done some air frames in the past. Excited to get going on this now.

I guess my next post will be dis-assembly of the entire fuselage which was complete. Oh well.

tracstarr
07-09-2018, 11:54 AM
So, a few small updates. Sorry, no pics.

As posted here (http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8860) and in my last post here - I had to tear down my fuselage to prep for sandblasting.

I managed to get the vertical stabilizer ribs off without too much damage using a heat gun. They should be re-usable if I can clean them up without damaging them.

Everything else came off easily and I taped up the long aluminum stringers on the sides and bottom of the body. I also left the aluminum door frame pieces on.

It finally got blasted over the weekend after sitting in the shop for about 3 weeks.

Turns out - those flimsy aluminum pieces warp pretty easily with blasting (from just the heat). So, the shop took them off as well as the stringers. No big deal, i'll have to re-make them.

All that said, the blasting went well and all welds were perfect. No cracks no rust no anything found under all that junk. Needless to say I am very very happy to know this - and the blasting and re-coat is well worth it.

tracstarr
09-19-2018, 04:45 PM
Been a little while - I'm sure you all know how it goes (or doesn't) sometimes.

So my story continues with the pickup of my newly coated frame. Oh man I was happy with it. Absolutely amazing work. Shout out to Performance Finishing & Fabrication Inc in Vars Ontario Canada!

Got her back to my shop and just caressed her for a while. Well worth it!

The next steps after that was many many evenings sorting through the boxes of parts that came with it. It was a total disaster. Many parts had no labels (worn away by years of sitting there) and some were rusted out. Good thing is they are all easily replaceable... bad thing is I have no idea what they are and what to get.

I just started pinning things the the wall under different groups when I figure out what they were. Part of the problem with a partially built kit (in my case) was it was pretty hard to determine what parts were used and what parts I should be hoping to find without reading every single page. And I did. It only helped a little.

So after a few nights of that I figured it was time to move on and wing it as I went.

Life then got in the way for a few weeks.

I was able to in that time take measurements of all the completed wing assembly to make sure it was all within spec as it was not a factory built wing. Everything looked good and was off in only a few places by about 1/8". About the biggest find was only 4/5 rivets in each of the drag/anti-drag attachments. I should be able to get one more in.

Finally back at it this week with some help. Ordered up a bunch of missing items from kitfox on day one - and some of the consumables I'm going to need.

Today with some help again we leveled up the fuselage and mounted the wings to verify dihedral, sweep, washout and wing twist. With only a small adjustment everything looked near perfect.

From there since we have to wait on some hysol, we got the firewall setup and test fit the engine mount and got that hardware all test fit.

Feels good to really get some progress going.

tracstarr
09-20-2018, 05:42 PM
Today was more progress. Took apart the pedal assembly and found it needs to be greased. Put them back in, got all the connections done and control sticks in. They'll be coming out again for re-paint eventually.

One of the modifications done today was to use riv-nuts for the pedal attachments to the frame. This will allow easy removal for future inspection etc.

jmodguy
09-20-2018, 06:41 PM
How did the riv-nuts work out? I was considering the same...

tracstarr
09-21-2018, 05:52 AM
Very easy, and one of those 'why wouldn't this be standard' moments. I'd post a pic once they are working again on this site.

rv9ralph
09-21-2018, 08:21 PM
Riv-Nuts sound like a great idea... until you have to get one loose that has spun/stripped the hole it is supposed to be locked into.

Ralph

Esser
09-21-2018, 09:08 PM
Get a high quality steel rivnut with a dab of loctite 680. It will never spin.

tracstarr
09-22-2018, 07:59 AM
Riv-Nuts sound like a great idea... until you have to get one loose that has spun/stripped the hole it is supposed to be locked into.

Ralph

Sure, but given it's location what does it really matter? If you had to access it with just the standard nut you'd have no chance anyway since it'll be covered by fabric.

It's more than worth the very small risk of that happening.

Actually, I realize my mistake here too... rivnut isn't the correct terminology... it's a nutplate with 2 rivits.

efwd
09-22-2018, 09:21 AM
Ahhh, there it is, a nut plate. Wish I had figured that out before I covered. I used nut plates on the baggage floor but that came later. The first thing I installed on the airframe was the pedals so I hadn't gotten the wiser by then.

jiott
09-22-2018, 09:35 AM
I agree, nutplates are the better way to go than rivnuts. Nutplates NEVER spin.

colospace
09-22-2018, 02:39 PM
The other option, that I chose, was to cut holes in the firewall "tail" big enough to accommodate the appropriate size socket (for the MS21043 nuts that I used) and then cover the holes with snap in plastic covers obtained from the Ace Hardware aviation department. I also put some mild adhesive (forget what kind) on the covers for extra security.

tracstarr
10-02-2018, 10:16 AM
Making sure the wings fit correctly and that all dimensions are correct.
16381
16382

This was from when it was sent out to get re powder coated.
16383

Just getting the engine mount set and everything lined up.
16384

efwd
10-02-2018, 01:19 PM
Certainly no trouble with space there. Brings back a bit of nervous memory.

tracstarr
10-15-2018, 05:40 PM
Well been busy since my last post. Some of that busy time actually working on the plane.

First I had to get this job out of the way before it gets too cold. Was way more effort than I expected. About 800 lbs of concrete all by myself.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539649069/BBQ/20181007_171936.jpg

With that out of the way I moved onto the door frames. I had to remove them when I re-painted the frame so I just bought new material.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_800/v1539648530/Kitfox/9_Doors/20181011_124139.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648530/Kitfox/9_Doors/20181011_124132.jpg

Now, I'm a bit confused as per the image below. What is detail B? If i look at instruction 176 as labeled, it has nothing to do with it. I also can't find the part. My buddy says it's not on the 7 (mine is a 6).

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_800/a_270/v1539648521/Kitfox/9_Doors/20181011_151512.jpg

Got the tail back together as well. Everything installed and lined up as per spec. Since I also lost the tail ribs when re-painting I decided just to order up new ones. Could have used the old, but I figure the time spent cleaning them up would have easily covered the cost of getting them new. Fit them up and stuck them in place.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648931/Kitfox/10_Tail/20180928_132725.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_800/a_360/v1539648430/Kitfox/10_Tail/20181015_113844.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648396/Kitfox/10_Tail/20181015_133528.jpg

Moving right along it was decided that the wings needed some attention. These were not factory built - but done from scratch by the original builder. Although done fairly well, it was obvious - especially when compared to a factory build wing - that it was lacking some hysol. I had several of the smaller ribs just pop of from looking at them.

So, first step was to build a wing jig. Well, two of them.
https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648493/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181012_102454.jpg

Then a little elbow grease to roughen up what was there to allow a little extra hysol to get a hold. Acetone cleanup before hand as well with and some scotchbright.

A bit blurry, but this was a before shot.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648420/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181015_122445.jpg

And after
https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648372/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181015_142027.jpg

I also had a bit of a bent tube under the seats. A little finessing and it's back to being good enough.

This is a before pic
https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648918/Kitfox/20180928_150854.jpg

Here are some pics of the rudder pedal nutplates I added.
https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1024/v1539648970/Kitfox/20180920_135047.jpg

Next is finish up the wings I think. The rest of the smaller ribs and add the bottom false ribs. Then wing two.

tracstarr
10-30-2018, 06:29 AM
Well, more progress is always great. I'm aiming to get my pre-cover inspection by MD-RA here in Canada in the next 2-3 weeks. I think that would be a big step.

After a lot of back and forth with the BetterFabric team about Oratex and figuring out exactly how much I need and a lot of talk with technical team about gluing vs rib stitching oratex I have my order ready to go. I'm pretty nervous as any screw up in calculations is going to be costly.

I'm going with a two color scheme and purchasing 1st grade backed material (not translucent). It's going to run about 8k USD for everything. Oratex has a lot of options though. If you get 2nd grade non-backed material, and depending on color, it can cost WAY less. Like 1000s less. So don't be put off.

With that decision out of the way and purchasing the pitot tube (garmin regulated) I should have what I need to get everything covered.

So, what have I gotten done...First I've been playing around with the floor boards. I've gone with ABS over the balsa. I tried some different arrangements of cuts, but decided the best is the original pattern. It came out awesome in my opinion. It has a little less strength lengthwise where the console side attaches, but some thin angle and hysol makes it super strong. It's slightly heaver by a few ounces, but should last longer. It'll be wet a lot given I'll be doing a lot of winter flying.
https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1080/v1540903598/Kitfox/12_FloorPanels/20181028_212234.jpg

I also got the fiberglass piece back on the tail. I was happy after removal that it went back on fine. It's not perfectly straight (as in it's a bit wavy from the heat when I removed it).

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/a_exif,c_scale,h_800/v1540903522/Kitfox/10_Tail/20181024_145835.jpg

Most of the work has been on the wings. I noticed that several of my capstrips were warped. At this point there was no way to pull them out. So, a little heat and a little love and they were separated and twisted back straight and level. Some hysol to bond it all back together and we were good. I'll admin, it was a bit scary to hear *crack* as they were twisted and pulled into place.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1080/v1540903507/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181024_104614.jpg

All the top and bottom false ribs were hysoled in.
https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/a_exif,c_scale,h_800/v1540903565/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181025_144434.jpg


Next the tanks. These are the newer tanks and not original from the kit. 2017 date on them I believe. Had to chase the threads in the fittings to clean them up. They were not perfectly straight, but not much can be done about that.
Did the leak check by blowing and then cleaned them out with that nasty stuff several times. Pretty dirty in there. Next all the fittings where added and the site gauge bent. We connected the tanks, filled them up partially and let it sit for a few days - just to make damn sure there was no leaks. One annoying thing is that the caps don't sit straight when on, i'll have to re-weld them as it's just going to annoy me too much.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/a_exif,c_scale,w_1080/v1540903564/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181025_102902.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1080/v1540903565/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181025_135909.jpg

Continued on to the trailing edge. Here I learned the there are 3 kinds of aviation snipers... and I only owned the ****ty yellow (straight) ones. Off to the store.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1080/v1540903565/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181025_144427.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/a_exif,c_scale,h_800/v1540903585/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181029_142119.jpg

Tanks were ready and wings were ready, so in they went. I did remember to varnish the ribs before putting the tanks in. Phewf. Also had to do a bit of trimming as the tank edges were far from straight or square.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1080/v1540903585/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181029_154659.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1080/v1540903582/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181029_154907.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_1080/v1540903587/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181029_155849.jpg

efwd
10-30-2018, 07:24 AM
Talk to us about the fuel sight gauges please. What did you use? I would love to replace the soft tubing.

Esser
10-30-2018, 09:49 AM
You can bend those caps with two hands so they point straight

tracstarr
10-30-2018, 10:51 AM
The site gauges are just the tubing that was in this 18 year old kit. Still looked to be in fine condition. Made a bending block as per instructions and used a hair dryer to soften it up enough to bend.

For the caps... i guess I can try a little brute force.

Esser
10-30-2018, 10:59 AM
Just looking at the one picture, it looks like you could take that fuel cap off and turn it 180deg, put it back on and then bend it. They are supposed to point forward.

tracstarr
10-30-2018, 12:03 PM
yeah, bad pic, i think it's just resting on there, not actually turned fully tight. It's off by about 1/2" when on tight.

jrevens
10-30-2018, 07:34 PM
Yeah, that's common, if not the norm it seems. There are lots of references to this on the forum. They bend easily into alignment... do it slowly and carefully and you will find it works fine - no obvious twisting or other distortion will be evident.

DesertFox4
10-30-2018, 08:58 PM
Talk to us about the fuel sight gauges please. What did you use? I would love to replace the soft tubing.]

Keep your “soft tubing” Eddie.
The photo below, I beleive, shows an old version of the fuel site gauges. If my old memory serves me, the tubing supplied with that version was know to turn brittle with age. Might have been certain fuels that it did not work well with but not sure what actually turned them brittle. I and others heard of reports of breakage during flight and spilling fuel into the cockpit.

I’d advise tracstar to check with Kitfox Aircraft to confirm this is the case before first flight. The 18 year old kit mentioned could be old enough to have those site gauge kits supplied. The plastic fittings are another tell tale that this may be one of those kits. Tracstar please call Kitfox Aircraft to confirm for my peace of mind so I won’t about you and by the way, keep up the good work.:)

airlina
10-31-2018, 03:04 AM
Steve, your memory indeed serves you correct, My series 5 is around the vintage of this kit and the sight gauge tubing will eventually fail and cause a real mess, so tygon or whatever the factory uses now is the way to go. I actually saw this happen to a friends newly finished Kitfox at OSH back in the 90's.Bruce N199CL

tracstarr
10-31-2018, 05:13 AM
I’d advise tracstar to check with Kitfox Aircraft to confirm this is the case before first flight. The 18 year old kit mentioned could be old enough to have those site gauge kits supplied. The plastic fittings are another tell tale that this may be one of those kits. Tracstar please call Kitfox Aircraft to confirm for my peace of mind so I won’t about you and by the way, keep up the good work.:)

Thanks... I didn't know there was such instances... so I'll look to replace them just out of the thought of gas pouring into the cockpit.

efwd
10-31-2018, 06:47 AM
Wow, that certainly doesn't sound like a good situation. Thanks Steve.

DesertFox4
10-31-2018, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the confirmation Bruce. :)
Glad I wasn’t “miss remembering”, as some of our politicians like to say.:rolleyes:

tracstarr
11-14-2018, 10:54 AM
It's been a busy two weeks. Lots of things have happened. I had a few setbacks to overcome and a few more to deal with.
But it's been forward progress and getting closer to that pre-cover inspection.

Fabric Covering
First, speaking of covering, decisions have been made and product purchased. For me it really wasn't a decision of which
fabric to use, but more about which colors. Oratex was the choice. For me it's the simplicity as well as the unique
factor.

There were still a lot of decisions to make though besides color. I'll reveil the color scheme when it arrives, sorry.
There are limited colors, but they each come in 2 levels of quality and both with or without a special backing to
reduce the translucency of the material. All at varying costs (also based on color choice). In the end I went with first
grade backed material. The most expensive choice, but I couldn't stand to see blemishes since this is the finished
product.

Additionally, there was a lot of discussion with their techs and support about rib lacing or not. With standard fabric
it's very strongly suggested in the build manual - but not a requirement. That said, I don't think anyone would go
without it. However, with Oratex, there is another option to talk about. The adhesive designed to hold the fabric is
far stronger than that used for standard fabric. The tech specs and tests show that if applied correctly you'd rip
fabric or destroy structure before the glue lets go.

That brings up the notion of gluing directly to the ribs instead of rib lacing. Given they are 1" wide I was
advised that they would provide more than enough bonding surface to glue rather than rib lace. I was also provided with
several other finished examples (RV7) that didn't rib stitch.

I've not decided for sure yet, and can easily add the stitching at any point.

Hopefully the shipment will arrive before christmas.

New Parts Arrived
Moving right along I was excited to get my first piece of the avionics - the pitot tube. I'm holding off on most of it
until the new year and closer to needing it - but I needed the pitot to be ready for pre-cover inspection.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163384/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181101_203350.jpg

I decided on the Garmin GAP 26 regulated pitot. It's the most costly option, but with my mission goals of being able
to night certify and fly over the top (of cloud) it was an easy decision. With it I got the Dynon pitot/AOA tubing kit
and a Gretz mounting bracket.

Flapperon Brackets & Fitting
Continuing from where we last left off with the tank install and trailing edge, things took a slide for the worse before
it got better.

The next step was working on the flapperon mounting brackets. First thing I'll say is that if you're working on anything
but a model 7, upgrade to the model 7 brackets. What a pain in the ass these were. Far more to go wrong, and totally
obvious why they were changed on the 7. I only know this because a friend just completed a 7 and was helping.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163312/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181031_141542.jpg

Anyway, the approach here was to take the 4 pieces of the bracket setup, insert the bolts with the end flapperon hinge
in order to get best spacing and alighment possible along with the necessary triangular template. Oh man that sucked.
The results were ok, but probably could have been made easier - somehow.

After getting those together it was time to line them up on the trailing edge. Well, that's where it started going
south on us. There was no way that the brackets were going to sit flush on the top and bottom with correct angles - the
trailing edge that was just finished was causing poor placement.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163369/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181102_111813.jpg

Now my first reaction was ****... now what, we're screwed. Luckly my buddy stepped in and just said not much we can do but
fix it. So, out came the multi-tool with a modified blade. We used it to cut through the hysol attachments on the
rib ends. Then, after some cleaning and sanding down to make the first perfect (while testing with the hinges)
that was fixed up. I make it sound easier than it was as it did take a few hours. In the end they all fit perfect.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163380/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181102_152234.jpg

_However_ this lead to one more small problem. The measurements for bracket placement had one off by about 1/32 of an inch
more than acceptable. Again, experience prevailed with the solution. A bottle of water, hairdryer and 2x4. With this
we wet down the end of the rib, heated it up and used the 2x4 as a brace to ever so slightly adjust for a better
fit. All I can say is wow. I really wouldn't have known what to do.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163413/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181106_214838.jpg

The next unresolved error are the flapperons. I just unwrapped them fully - which wasn't done at time of purchase. Now
I find the aluminum top and bottom of the bracket slots are tore right through. Again, deflating. I'll have to
fabricate a small plate to attach over top. But that'll be a story for another day.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163411/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181105_095804.jpg

Well, a few days and a few issues solved and fixed. Slow progress but still progress.

Tanks
Put on the modified ribs and false ribs and set them to the same contour as others with some wood and hysol. Also added
the small support pieces against the tank and the number one rib.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163332/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181031_141617.jpg

Additionally I orders up some new flexable fuel line to replace the hard molded tube used. I was told there have been a
few cases of it breaking - and I don't want that mid flight!

Laker Leading Edge
So smooooooooooth. Got the LLE fitted and ready to be hysoled, but that will have to wait a bit longer as I still have
to mount the jury struts. Also made the little fittings for around the main attachments for the fabric to attach to.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163413/Kitfox/11_WingWork/20181106_214827.jpg

Fuselage
Moving right along there are some things to tackle on the fuselage. Started with re-mounting the pedals with some new
hardware. First though they were greased up with some lithium grease.

Continued with fitting the rudder cables and swaged the ends to the rudder adjustment handles. I had to order the tube
that fits into the alignment brackets and cut and fit that as well.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_300/v1542163516/Kitfox/13_Fuselage/20181113_112914.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163509/Kitfox/13_Fuselage/20181113_144943.jpg

Put back in the wire going to the trim motor as well as ran the static line to the tail where I'll eventually add the
static ports.

Oh yeah, also inserted the elevator tube and re-rivited the end back on and attached it.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_300/v1542163509/Kitfox/13_Fuselage/20181113_145021.jpg

Next Up
Well, that was a big update - and I probably missed something. But next up will be the j-stringers along the sides and
bottom.

Also, make sure to check out my website to follow the build. More pictures will be posted there (eventually). NorthernFox Build (http://northernfox.build)

jrevens
11-14-2018, 05:34 PM
...
That brings up the notion of gluing directly to the ribs instead of rib lacing. Given they are 1" wide I was
advised that they would provide more than enough bonding surface to glue rather than rib lace. I was also provided with
several other finished examples (RV7) that didn't rib stitch.




Hi Keith,


I'm sure you know this, but this statement seems to imply that rib lacing and gluing could be an either/or proposition. That's not the case of course... you need to glue the fabric to the cap strips regardless of if you lace or not. I would strongly advise lacing also, as it really takes very little time in the grand scheme, it doesn't look bad at all, and it's a definite safety improvement. It will be more desirable to most buyers also, IMO. Is the "RV7" mentioned actually a RANS S7?

efwd
11-14-2018, 07:49 PM
My sentiments exactly John. Including the RV7 part. Like everyone I have come across, I laced mine too. I get why builders debate this I think. I took the same position and posted the same questions if I recall correctly.
Lacing was the concern. After we (builders) do the lacing, we realize it was actually kinda fun and the safety aspect is very much worth the effort. I have nerves brewing with regard to phase one and I question if I would have the nerve to be that guy who has the true experimenter mind set needed to be the one who doesn't lace. Especially when we know what happened to Whitman, a true experimenter who also didn't lace.

Esser
11-14-2018, 08:03 PM
I agree with what everyone is saying. It took me and my wife about two hours to rib lace the wings if I recall

David47
11-14-2018, 11:13 PM
There's a reason why Polyfiber say you should rib stitch. They developed the STC for the product, they know their product and they would know the potential risks of not rib stitching. On fabric covered aerobatic aircraft, not only is the wing stitched, but so are the empennage surfaces. I guess just keep this in mind when deciding whether to stitch or not: the wing fabric is the primary lifting surface over which the major proportion of lift air pressure is applied, and therefore keeps you up there with the birds. If it starts to come adrift, then you have a problem. Do you really want to take a risk - at all - with a primary lifting surface, for the sake of a few hours of knit-one, pearl-one rib stitching ?. FWIW. ....

airlina
11-15-2018, 03:52 AM
I don't get why many builders builders balk when we come to the rib stitching portion of the build. If you guess you will be OK without and you are wrong the consequences aren't good. Like the old commercial used to say "Just Do It". Its not that hard don't cut corners .
Bruce N199CL

tracstarr
11-15-2018, 06:28 AM
Thanks for the concerns, I don't have a decision yet. However, I'm not convinced that just because it's done on the older covering methods makes it automatically required for something new. This is new technology, new adhesives specific for this fabric and has it's own needs and requirements. It's not fair to draw conclusions comparing apples to oranges. Yeah, standard fabric it's a must - as you've pointed out with a famous crash - but I don't feel you can come to conclusions yet with Oratex.

That said, I'm also not an idiot nor do I have a death wish. But, if it can be proven to be safe alternative then it's something to consider. I'll be consulting with as many people as I can and likely doing some testing, maybe even in a wind tunnel. My father in-law is in aerospace and might be able to get me some time.

aviator79
11-15-2018, 07:47 AM
Hi Keith,
...you need to glue the fabric to the cap strips regardless of if you lace or not. I would strongly advise lacing also,

This seems to imply the glue is mandatory and the lacing optional. I believe the inverse is true - you need to lace regardless of whether you glue or not. The Poly Fiber manual actually says "You won't cement fabric to the ribs themselves, since later you'll use rib lacing or some other mechanical means to hold the fabric to the ribs..."

The Kitfox manual agrees with John in that the instructions explicitly tell you to bond to the capstrips, but also say that "Poly-Fiber and Kitfox recommend that you secure the fabric to the rib capstrips by rib stitching". Acutally, Kitfox might recommend it, but Poly-Fiber requires it, and uses 3 paragraphs in the manual to emphasize that it is required.

edit... I assume the Oratex instructions require gluing. So you should glue. But unless there is strong evidence that Oratex adhesives resist peel loads in a vastly superior sense than Poly-Tak, even after 20 years, then you should follow Poly-Fiber's advice, even if you're using Oratex.

tracstarr
11-15-2018, 08:32 AM
You're talking about Poly-Fiber, which again Oratex is not. I'm not arguing Poly-Fiber install methods. Nor am I trying to argue at all, but just have a discussion.

Oratex requires gluing to all surfaces it touches. This is to stop friction from any kind of wind chatter and increase overall strength and I'm sure other reasons.

I think another thing to consider here is the mass of the material and the forces required to hold it in place. I would think that the Oratex being significantly lighter requires a lot less to keep it in place/hold it down.

There should be some existing calculations to help determine the lifting forces on the fabrics and minimum holding forces required to then keep it in place.

aviator79
11-15-2018, 09:23 AM
I am also not arguing. I think it's a good discussion to have. I do want to encourage you, and anyone else reading this thread, to make a decision informed by data and/or analysis, and not anecdote and/or speculation.

I do think it's possible, probably even likely, that the glue alone will do just fine. Kitfoxes were built that way with Poly-Fiber for quite some time. Of course, that was before people were putting 140 HP engines and STi wings on them.

I don't know that the mass of the material will matter much. Whatever attachment you use must resist the weight of the airplane at 3.8G regardless of the fabric density. The fabric density would come into play for dynamic loading, but I would not expect the effect to be dramatic. In fact, it may be that the fabric with higher density resists dynamic or transient loads better because it has more inertia than the lighter fabric. (Quasi-informed speculation only).

As a low-fidelity test, bond a strip to a piece of varnished wood, and try peeling it off. You could even attach a fish scale, pull it at 180 degrees at a rate of 6"/min and calculate the ASTM peel strength. My back-of-the-envelope calculation gives a peel strength requirement of about 4.5 lbs/in assuming a uniform spanwise lift distribution, which is not realistic. Unless you're ready to get into some hard-core modeling, you could assume a triangular lift distribution, which would double that and should be somewhat conservative. Then add some safety margin.

To be complete, you'd want to repeat the test at 5, 10, 15, and 20 years, but I assume you plan to have your plane built long before then. You could make up the samples, and perform the tests at intervals, which would let you know over time whether you need to worry about the bond.

tracstarr
11-15-2018, 09:32 AM
I agree, in hand evidence and numbers is what I want to base the decision off of. I'm waiting on the spec sheets/tests from Oratex to at least have informed numbers that they tested with.

Then like you said, some of my own testing will be required.

jiott
11-15-2018, 10:42 AM
Also keep in mind that you are not gluing the fabric to the wood. It is glued to the varnish coating the wood. I doubt there are any specs or STI's spelling out the adhesion strength of the varnish to bare wood, or your method of applying it.

I wish someone could find that video of a Kitfox with the top wing fabric pulled loose and ballooning up while the camera shot it from above.

Shadowrider
11-15-2018, 11:40 AM
As per Oratex instructions surface must be properly prepped for proper adhesion. You want to sand rib caps prior to glueing so I think it’s non issue. I understand the interest in the video, but I am assuming that’s poly fiber covered wing? Speaking in length to Lars about this topic and various others, I am not quite sure what my thoughts are. Lars spoke of various STCs in Europe they have replacing legacy covering systems with Oratex and lack of rib lacing/stiching specified. He spoke of testing they have done to obtain these STCs and inflating the wing (with water for better data) to failure point and how the ribs failed and not attachment points. With that being said he also spoke of various aircraft that Oratex states you “must rib stich” because the attachment point of the ribs are too small or surface areas and or irregular shaped ribs. The just of the conversion I got is they are not going to say it’s not needed for obvious reason. Although he did mention aircraft with large cap strips and proper installation the fabric will not separate. He also mentioned the adhesion strength in there testing is 5-8 times greater than other legacy systems and fabric or rib damage results. They list these test numbers in the data sheet provided but they are just numbers to me.

I am no engineer, but the little I have “played” with Oratex I think you would brake the rib before you remove fabric. I can see both sides of the argument. Are we doing unnecessary steps and what some would say not as clean look when no reason other than it was done in the legacy systems? Or are we cutting corners and putting safety at risk? One reason I chose to build and experimental aircraft, ability to choose😬!

In picking brains of multiple builders that have used Oratex they have state they installed covering in ocordance with poly fiber instructions. Lars stressed to me and in the instructions he sent not to following instructions of other legacy systems it will be done incorrectly if you do. One point comes to mind on reinforcing tapes and finishing tapes. Looking at Steve Henry’s plane it was interesting to note that he had no reinforcing tapes over attachment points like I often see covering frame tubes and ribs. When asked he said “everybody gets crazy about reinforcing tapes, not needed” From what I have read you want the surface glued down and no need for tapes. I don’t think there is an issue of adding then but they seem to just add weight and take time. I think this also must be a carry over?

Great discussion👍

jrevens
11-15-2018, 11:56 AM
This seems to imply the glue is mandatory and the lacing optional. I believe the inverse is true - you need to lace regardless of whether you glue or not. The Poly Fiber manual actually says "You won't cement fabric to the ribs themselves, since later you'll use rib lacing or some other mechanical means to hold the fabric to the ribs..."

The Kitfox manual agrees with John in that the instructions explicitly tell you to bond to the capstrips, but also say that "Poly-Fiber and Kitfox recommend that you secure the fabric to the rib capstrips by rib stitching". Acutally, Kitfox might recommend it, but Poly-Fiber requires it, and uses 3 paragraphs in the manual to emphasize that it is required.

edit... I assume the Oratex instructions require gluing. So you should glue. But unless there is strong evidence that Oratex adhesives resist peel loads in a vastly superior sense than Poly-Tak, even after 20 years, then you should follow Poly-Fiber's advice, even if you're using Oratex.

A couple of comments - first of all, Oratex’s instructions, according to Lars, are to definitely glue to the capstrips but also follow the aircraft designer’s recommendations in regard to rib lacing, and regardless of that they do recommend it. Since Kitfox recommends it also, it’s a no-brainer to me. Also, the same argument that most all of us are making should logically go both ways... why not glue as well as lace?

Next, Oratex has tested and published comparisons of their glue strength to Polyfiber’s and others, and claim it to be quite a bit stronger in all ways, peel strength included. Like most things, it has to be applied correctly with the proper amount of pressure and heat. There is not the experience history of Polyfiber of course, but it has been being used in Europe for close to 2 decades now, I believe.

Edit... after seeing Shadowrider’s latest post below, it’s possible that Oratex has revised their recommendations, but I was definitely told to follow the designer’s recommendations.

jiott
11-15-2018, 12:10 PM
Here is another thought that hasnt been mentioned yet in this interesting discussion. Oratex claims that the rib may fail before the fabric separates. Ok, the kitfox cap strip is only held to the rib by a very tjin glue line. It may very well fail at this point, but that is just as bad as a fabric separation. Rib stitching goes all the way around the rib and cap, helping to hold the whole structure together. I personally would want this extra safety factor for such little effort and cost.

aviator79
11-15-2018, 12:17 PM
This seems to imply the glue is mandatory and the lacing optional. I believe the inverse is true - you need to lace regardless of whether you glue or not. The Poly Fiber manual actually says "You won't cement fabric to the ribs themselves, since later you'll use rib lacing or some other mechanical means to hold the fabric to the ribs..."

The Kitfox manual agrees with John in that the instructions explicitly tell you to bond to the capstrips, but also say that "Poly-Fiber and Kitfox recommend that you secure the fabric to the rib capstrips by rib stitching". Acutally, Kitfox might recommend it, but Poly-Fiber requires it, and uses 3 paragraphs in the manual to emphasize that it is required.

edit... I assume the Oratex instructions require gluing. So you should glue. But unless there is strong evidence that Oratex adhesives resist peel loads in a vastly superior sense than Poly-Tak, even after 20 years, then you should follow Poly-Fiber's advice, even if you're using Oratex.

I had typed these sentiments not recalling that the thread was specific to Oratex (hence the edit). If the glue is as strong as they claim, and remains so as it ages, then it's likely the glue bond will be sufficient. It's up to the builder to decide if the available evidence is convincing enough.

tracstarr
11-15-2018, 01:14 PM
Here is another thought that hasnt been mentioned yet in this interesting discussion. Oratex claims that the rib may fail before the fabric separates. Ok, the kitfox cap strip is only held to the rib by a very tjin glue line. It may very well fail at this point, but that is just as bad as a fabric separation. Rib stitching goes all the way around the rib and cap, helping to hold the whole structure together. I personally would want this extra safety factor for such little effort and cost.

This is something that I've thought about for this situation. Rib failure itself, not the fabric. That's something that's probably never been tested on a kitfox. I'd also want to know how much strength does the rib lacing add to the structure, not the fabric in such a case. And is that failure of the rib above the maximum and then some stresses applied in flight?

Shadowrider
11-15-2018, 01:21 PM
Ribs are glued and stapled down. Rib caps are very strong. I tried to remove the end of mine because the cap was not installed perpendicular. Rib cap broke before separating. 😬

PapuaPilot
11-17-2018, 09:46 PM
If it were my plane I would do the rib stitching for peace of mind.

It seems the rib stitching could be completed in less time than has been spent on this thread. :rolleyes:

jmodguy
11-18-2018, 05:43 AM
For what it’s worth the aircraft Wittman died in was his one off O&O special. It had plywood covered wings and rib stitching really wasn’t an option.
His failure was improperly adhering the fabric to the plywood.

tracstarr
11-20-2018, 09:04 AM
ORATEX ARRIVED! So Excited! Although I am thinking damn... that's all i get in the box for all the money.... lol... but it's here! :D


edit: I just skimmed the manual from Germany... I'm so nervous. There was some information about testing of the material after so many years and might relate a bit to the above discussions. Will look into it further.

Shadowrider
11-20-2018, 11:18 AM
Make sure to read the tips and tricks from Better aircraft. Has lots of good info in there.

tracstarr
01-10-2019, 11:35 AM
I've been terrible at keeping this updated... I promise I'll get all the latest done over the last month and a half posted soon..

I just wanted to share my excitement that I've just passed my pre-cover and got the ok to move forwards. Super excited.

Next I'll apply for my registration and tail number!

Shadowrider
01-10-2019, 02:38 PM
I've been terrible at keeping this updated...I've just passed my pre-cover and got the ok to move forward..

Hoping this is only a Canadian requirement?

tracstarr
01-10-2019, 03:04 PM
I believe so.

Shadowrider
01-10-2019, 04:20 PM
Hope so because I am already covered

aviator79
01-10-2019, 04:25 PM
Not a requirement in the US. It's not a bad idea to have an EAA tech counselor take a look. But based on your pictures, I'm pretty sure you have nothing to worry about.

tracstarr
03-12-2019, 06:40 PM
It's been a really long time sine I've updated this. I'm pretty far behind. Difficult to get these done with the rest of life having to come first. Here's the last few updates that are also on my build site. I'll try and get caught up this week.


Nov 14, 2018 - J Stringers

J-Stringers cut, fit and secured today. These were originally already completed
when I bought the kit, but they were removed for sandblasting and were
damaged enough to just get some new material. Was pretty cheap to do all
considered.

Not overly complicated so things went pretty smooth. Filed them at the
tail to have a smoother profile vs the chipmunk cheek look you get
without.

Also decided to make the bottom stringer out of aluminum as well.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_300/v1542163508/Kitfox/13_Fuselage/20181113_154731.jpg

Nov 25, 2018 - Sanding and Fabrication


The last few days was spent sanding and fabricating. The false bottom ribs were
cut out to fit on the bottoms of the tanks and then hysoled on. Then there
was a lot of sanding. Using a level all of the false ribs were sanded slightly to
make the profiles perfect to make the fabric sit as nicely as possible.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_300/v1552075757/Kitfox/20181130_111816.jpg

There was also a small bit of fabrication to make and install the pitot tube
mounting plate.

Additionally the rudder cable install was completed. A hair dryer and
paint cans were used to help straighten out the tube which the cable runs.
With a bit of difficulty, the cables were setup and attached in the rear.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_300/v1542163509/Kitfox/13_Fuselage/20181113_144943.jpg

ORATEX ARRIVED

The big excitement this week was that the oratex arrived! I'm glad it arrived early
and I'm not stuck waiting on it. But now I feel the pressure to get things
completed for pre-cover inspection.

I'm close, really really close.


Dec 4, 2018 - Re check the wing fit

The past week a lot of little things got done. There was a lot final tightening of most things within the fuselage and adding witness marks.

A bit of tweaking of the pitot mounting bracket and arm was needed to get a good fit. I decided to mount the arm such
that it's accessed from the inside only. The reason is I think there will be a much nicer finish with the oratex this
way. The drawback is that the pitot does have to be fully installed before covering the wing and if anything goes wrong
I will have to cut my way in to fix it.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_200/v1545770002/Kitfox/20181207_133422.jpg


The big step was putting the wings onto the fuselage and making sure all of the dimensions and angles were correct. This
went pretty smooth with some help and everything was spot on. It's a zero degree setup as I am installing the 912IS.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_300/v1545770019/Kitfox/20181204_142548.jpg


Dec 17, 2018 - Laker Leading Edge

Things have been moving along the last few weeks and this is likely the last bit of work until the new year.

After fitting the wings last time, I took the opportunity to install the smaller part of the wing struts. This wasn't
very easy. There was a lot of adjusting, measureing, adjusting, measuring and then crossing of the fingers while
drilling the holes. In the end all is good.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,w_600/v1545770041/Kitfox/20181207_133439.jpg

The wings were then removed again to continue work. Next was running the pitot and AOA tubing through to the end of the
wing as well as installing the regulator for the pitot.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075839/Kitfox/20181217_152039.jpg

From there it was time to start work on the laker leading edge.
This went rather well considering fiberglass is almost never perfect. There was some cutting and fitting and one
re-adjustment of the leading edge mold locators/supports.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20181217_151100.jpg

Oh yeah, somewhere in there all of the ribs were also sanded and varnished. Just can't remember when.

Also got the bottom bar and antenna mounting plate of the turtle deck fabricated and test fit.

Now time for some R&R and enjoying the holidays with the Kids.

tracstarr
04-03-2019, 06:28 PM
A little late, but here's everything caught up...


2019-01-08 LLE Prep for Cover


Well, it's a new year. I'm looking forward to the next big steps on this build and getting in the air. There's still
a ways to go, but just finishing up for the first big step.

The LLE install was completed with not too much trouble. Also started some of the prep work to make the transitions
and seams super smooth. Going with Oratex every little bump will be noticeable. So, superfill was put to use along the
top of the tanks and the transitions from LLE to capstrip.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190108_152356.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190108_152409.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190108_152415.jpg

Everything is now ready for inspection, which is scheduled in two more days.

2019-01-10 Pre-Cover Inspection

Well, it's a big day here. My first inspection by the local MDRA. This is the pre-cover inspection. It was rather
uneventful, which is good. Everything went smooth and I have the thumbs up to move ahead with covering. Super excited!
The only think I need to do is provide pictures of the final pitot tube plumbing before it's covered since there will
be no access without cutting an access hole.

Time for Oratex!

2019-02-07 Prep for the Fuselage Fabric


Well, it's been almost a month already. Boy does time fly when you realize there's still A LOT of prep work before
covering can begin.

Since I'm using Oratex, every little bit of what's being covered needs to be perfect - or at least as perfect as I can
manage. The reason - Oratex is thin and heat shrunk, so every little bump and crease will show.

I decided to take the time and smooth out every transition and every bump and every rivit. Lots of superfill, some hysol
and lots of sanding by hand required. A few coats of primer and it's ready.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190228_092452.jpg
https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190228_092425.jpg

Oh yeah, also fabricated a small plate for the bottom where the header tank is accessable for the fuel drain. This gives
me a nice solid location for the fabric to be glued to and the ring plate to sit against.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190207_081955.jpg

After that, everything was cleaned up really good with acetone to prepare for the Oratex.

Now, the scary part... cutting the Oratex. At something like $199 a yard, you only get one chance so you better make
it right. What I did was take the 20 year old poly fiber roll that came with my buy and used it to template the sides
bottom and top of the fuselage. Hopefully this is fool proof right?

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190206_120438.jpg

After fitting the template and checking and re-checking, I made some cuts. I opted to start with the bottom first. It
looked like it would be the easiest. It's the flattest, no compound curves or anything to stress me out more than I
needed.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190206_142407.jpg

The template was cut out and ready to go - but not today.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190206_143804.jpg


2019-02-11 Covering the Fuselage

So the last few days have gone great. A bit nerve racking dealing with Oratex for the first time. But, that said, I'm
100% more confident already. It's not as scary as you think and much more forgiving as well. Although, don't get me
wrong, it's still easy to mess up if you have glue in the wrong place or don't plan out the shrinking.

I started first with doing the "glue test" as perscribed in the manuals. So far so good. Although, there was a panic
moment when I noticed the bottles of glue I was sent expired in 2 days. After some frantic calls to Lars everything
worked out and I was able to continue.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190207_081735.jpg

First, this is a two person job. I know others have done it alone, but it's so much easier with some help. We laid
the Oratex onto the bottom and clamped it into approximate place. Some relief cuts were made. I then crawled under and
used a yellow pencil to mark all of the tubes where glue would need to be applied on the fabric. Once done, the Oratex
was placed onto the work bench were two coats of the glue was applied. Thin coats. We also applied two thin coats on the
frame.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190207_112621.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190206_115636.jpg

We came back the following day after giving the glue ample time to dry. The Oratex was then placed back onto the
fuselage and clamped into place. From there I used the hot iron to tack one side and then the other under the seating
area. Once that was tacked we moved along back and forth along the tail. I tacked it down and the other helped pull and
stretch as necessary. Very little was needed.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190211_101931.jpg

Once tacked along all edges we continued by fully tacking the Oratex the full 270 degrees around the tubing and following
that up with full temperature to set the glue. Everything so far was going great. The nerves were slowing calming.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190211_112216.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/P2110217.jpg

Now, the next part I realized after the fact that I probably should have waited a lot longer as the manual suggests.
Instead, I only gave the glue a few hours before I started the shrinking process. Using the heat gun I nervously
started applying the heat to shrink it. It was shrinking. It was actually shrinking a lot more than expected. It was
rather satisfying to be honest.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190211_144058.jpg

It took a few passes to get use to the distance from material and speed to get the shrink working well. There really
wasn't much to it at this point. I was very happy with the way it was working out.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190211_144053.jpg

Next, we applied some more glue directly between the fabric and stringers and then all of the smaller tubes under the
main cockpit area. These were previously without glue to allow shrinking first without activation. This was recommended
by Lars (whom I had several calls with during this initial process).

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190211_144104.jpg

Let that dry and then went back and applied the iron to activate the glue along these structures. It's just a very very
thin touch point, but should keep the fabric from vibrating. The bond, even on such a small surface, is very very strong.
I was really impressed. It also means that no tapes are required over these areas as in typical Poly-fiber application.

https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190211_211900.jpg

I did add some small circular re-enforcement patches to the areas where the small tabs stick out the bottom. It just
helped clean up the look of the cuts.

Time to move on to the sides!

tracstarr
04-03-2019, 06:28 PM
2019-02-14 Avionics Order


Well, another big step. All the avionics were ordered. As I'm sure every builder can a-test to, it's a hard decision
what to get. You can build a panel from as low as maybe 5k up to 30k plus (very quickly). Me, being me, always
wants the best and latest gear.


I had to really sit back and think about what I wanted to be able to do. First, obviously, VFR requirements had to be
met. From there, I decided I wanted to be able to do both night VFR and OTT (Over the top). Each of these required
additional specialized equipment over standard VFR. For a while I wanted auto pilot, but eventually decided against it.


Additionally, although not a requirement in Canada (yet), I wanted both ADSB IN and OUT. Being so close to the US border,
and likely doing flying down there as well as being able to get some of the ADSB benefits while flying in Canada close
to the border, I went with a Mode S transponder with ASDB IN/OUT.


The other big decisions includes going with the Vertical Power VPX electronic circuit breaker protection and having
all the equipment remote mounted (or such that it's all hidden except the required bits). So things like the transponder,
radios etc don't require dash space as they can all be controlled from the main screen.


And then brand...I went with Garmin. They have a very strong showing in the Experimental category and are a big name
brand. Their equipment is used in all kinds of commercial and certified planes and has a very very good reputation.


Finally, with all the decisions made, I contacted Stein Air to help put the package together for me. They were by far
the best to deal with of the 5 or so companies I called. With my order now placed, it's just a waiting game.


Here's what I went with:


- Garmin G3X
- G5 (with backup battery)
- Engine component kit for the 912is
- GPS-20A
- GA-35
- GTX-45R
- GAP 26 regulated pitot
- TCW backup battery
- VPX-Sport
- Artex ELT
- all the connection and mounting bits I'll need


2019-02-28 More Prep


While I'm waiting on some answers about the Oratex requirements by the MDRA I've moved on to more pre-work for covering.
The wings and other surfaces needed much more prep work to really smooth out the transitions and attachment areas. A lot
more superfil and sanding was done. Additionally, all areas that would require glue were preped with primer and then
lightly sanded as per the documentation for Oratex glue. I really think the effort is going to pay off.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190326_095541.jpg


2019-03-01 Oratex on Hold


Disappointment and delay. I said last time I was waiting on some answers from local MDRA inspectors. Well, things are
totally up in the air right now.


The short story here is that Oratex has different requirements than standard fabric, but the MDRA wants to inspect it
as if it is Poly - fiber and that I have to meet those requirements. There are two main issues. Number one is that some
of those go against the Oratex requirements. Second is that the recommendations by Better Aircraft Fabric in some cases
also go against the Oratex manufacturers provided documents.


So why is this a problem? In one sense it's not. If I 100% follow the Oratex manufacturer documents and provide them to
the inspectors, they really have no choice but to approve it if I followed them. Oratex is STC'd in Canada. However,
the issue I have with that is that it would lead to a terrible looking airplane. The required seam overlaps and taping
would lead to the (mostly fuselage) looking like crap. (this is both my opinion and a very strong opinion of Better
Aircraft Fabric). BAF has their own recommendations which have been used for years in the US and just leave you a much
better looking aircraft. However, these are not signed off by the fabric manufacturer so I cannot provide them to the
inspectors.


Again, what's the big deal? Well, I want my airplane to both function as needed but also look nice. In no way am I
trying to sacrifice safety though - lets make that clear. However, if there are known application methods that allow
for both safe application and improved looks - I'd like to take that path.


All that said, things are on hold with the covering of the fuselage. I'm working with Lars at BAF to get the required
documentation to continue.


2019-03-02 Prop and Tires


My initial thought was to just upgrade to the Desser 21" tires. But, after poking around I decided to drop that decision
and just go to the big boys. Well, to the Airstreak 2.0 26" tires that is. Screw it right? I'm just going to get what I
really want and not look back. Project is already close to being over budget and at this point. Why be upset with the
decision, waste the money and then just upgrade a few months later.


So that's what I did. Got some new tires and opted for the T3 tailspring and Tundra Lite tailwheel. Yeah, a bit more
than just getting the Dessers. But I'm happy!


One of the final major pieces was getting my prop ordered. Early on I decided that I was going to get a constant
speed. I've never actually flown one myself, but the cost per increased performance over a fixed pitch is too
obvious to give up. I'm sure I'd be more than happy with fixed/groud adjustable, but I do have it in my budget and
so that's the plan.


I decided to go with an Airmaster 332R hub and 75" Whirlwind blades with the AC200R (beta) controller. It was a pretty
easy decision other than should i go 72" or 75". There is currently a two month lead time, so I should get it the
end of April - hopefully just as I'm finishing up the engine install.


While on the topic of buying things, a few weeks ago I did also purchase a BRS system. Again, not cheap, but something
I had planned for from the beginning. Both BRS and Kitfox were very helpful in helping with the decision and the
information I need to get it correctly installed. I'm getting the Kitfox mounting kit so all should hopefully go
smooth.


I know this is one of those big debatable topics. For me it's an easy choice. Although I agree that it's not the end
all be all - I want that extra option. Where I fly there's not many options. It's dense forest or open lakes. Although
I'm planning floats in the future, that's not an option right now. I will loose a bit of storage space and total
capacity, but nothing I'm concerned about. I'm adding under fuselage "roof racks" to aid with carrying things as well
as I'm only a small fry in the weight department.


I should now have everything less some consumables and buttons for the panel. (I hope).


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190305_205345.jpg


2019-04-03 Wing Covering




It's been a while. A month. What's happened in a month - sure doesn't feel like much.


With the continued delays with the fabric application there was some work started with cutting and fitting the wing tips.
This, in short, sucked. It took about two days just to get the cuts done and everything trimmed. Now I still have to
glue the ends together and a lot of finish work and also cutting out for the lights.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190306_153953.jpg


I felt a bit lost and moved on to the wing struts and got the speed fairings hysoled in place.


Again, delays continued with the fabric but I tried to press on. I decided I could start covering the wings as they were
not going to have any of the issues I was concerned about. They were fully preped so that's what I've been working on.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190328_132158.jpg


I got the bottom of both wings now covered and shrunk. It went pretty smoothly. Each to cut out. Glue application was
pretty straight forward. I used pencil to mark the bottom of the fabric for glue location. The one thing I have noticed
is there is a substantial amount of glue wasted. You have to brush on wider than expected as it'll never line up perfect
after you start sticking things together. On one hand it's necessary our you'd never have glue where needed, on the other
you're wasting close to 50% IMO. I have to figure out if I can improve this.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190327_200334.jpg


Speaking of glue. I did have a bit of a scare moment when I re-opened the glue from a month ago. As I poured it out it
was chunky. Not good right! After a few phone calls to Lars, some pictures and investigation of the remaining bottles
of glue we determined it was just chunks of dried up glue from the edges of the bottle. I did glue tests and fished out
the chunks for close inspection. The glue test was perfect. The chunks were thin and smooth and were clearly dried up.
The original worry was the it had frozen at one point. However, that would have been very distinctively different
chunks. Phewf.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190327_082106.jpg


Application to the wings was pretty easy. It's about taking your time, especially with the LLE. That you need to get
totally smooth and no creases. You don't have the option to shrink it! It takes a while to really figure out the temps
and speed to move at - especially just to tack vs total setting of the glue. It's sticking - so hopefully it's good!


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190328_134744.jpg


This time I also waited until the following day to shrink. Again, that's so satisfying. I used the heat gun first as I
find it much easier/safer than the iron with large wrinkles. I followed that by the iron shrinking. The only bit I had
trouble with was not cutting back enough the fabric that wraps the trailing edge. When I shrank, there was a distinctive
line coming through where the fabrics touched. A little heat and pliers got the fabric pulled back off enough to trim and
then re-apply glue and heat. Everything fixed.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190328_141212.jpg


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190402_204720.jpg


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190402_210607.jpg


The one issue I did find, which is rather annoying, is that any contrasting color transitions show through. So for example,
the white primer to wood. In the right light you can very clearly see this transition. I was rather disappointed to see
this. All that extra work just felt like it was down the drain.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190328_142428.jpg


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190328_150015.jpg


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190402_150607.jpg


But, a swift kick in the arse by my buddy got me going again. It's minimal on the bottom, and most will be covered by
the leading edge tape, which is going to be black. However, we did decide we have to find a way to fix this on the top
side before covering.


https://res.cloudinary.com/tracstarr/image/upload/c_scale,h_600/v1552075840/Kitfox/20190329_102145.jpg


So, that's where I've left off today. We are trying so of the matching orange paint I had mixed up to see if it will
cover the transitions. Tomorrow will tell once it's dry. If that doesn't work, I'll have to paint the entire surface the
same color.

Shadowrider
04-03-2019, 09:58 PM
Nice progress looking good!

jiott
04-04-2019, 10:21 AM
Just noticed from tracstarr's post that he is gluing the Oratex to every cross and angle tube that the fabric touches. With PolyFiber in most cases you only glue the fabric around the edges of each piece (on the wings you do glue each rib). All that gluing seems unnecessary to me; it also seems that it would be very difficult to get even and consistent fabric tension over the whole panel. Is this really what Oratex requires?

aviator79
04-04-2019, 10:41 AM
I was wondering the same Jim. Even the rib gluing is only from the Kitfox manual. Poly Fiber does not specify gluing the fabric to the ribs. It seems to me the fabric needs to be able to move across the structure as it shrinks.

tracstarr
04-04-2019, 11:27 AM
Yes. Every surface the oratex touches requires glue. You can actually shrink very well then glue the cross members and ribs afterwards. It works very well. I also won't need reinforcing strips or tapes over any of those areas.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

Shadowrider
04-04-2019, 05:56 PM
A lot of people get hung up on what poly fiber manual says. I had the advantage doing Oratex in never doing poly fiber or reading the polyfiber manual. Hopefully you get things resolved so your inspector is happy.

bbs428
04-04-2019, 08:28 PM
Just caught up on your thread. Moving along nicely!
Like your choice of tires. Here's to your covering turning out great. :)

jrevens
04-04-2019, 10:09 PM
Yes. Every surface the oratex touches requires glue...

I don't know about that. It certainly wasn't a requirement, or even a suggestion when I was covering and staying in touch with Better Aircraft Fabric on a very regular basis. Is this another one of Lar's recommendations that differs from what the factory recommends (like the lack of finish tapes)? Just curious.

efwd
04-05-2019, 08:56 AM
Yeah, I didn't attach the fabric to the underside tubing either. I did place tapes over those though. Opposite of what Dustin did. I will be able to see, at some point, if the fabric is being chafed in those locations. Easy to just throw the glue on and secure the fabric after the fact if I find its problematic.

tracstarr
04-05-2019, 08:56 AM
I can't recall where it came from originally, but lars was very strong worded about it when talking directly with him. I'm fairly sure it's in at least one of the documents but I'd have to read them again.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

tracstarr
04-05-2019, 08:59 AM
Yeah, I didn't attach the fabric to the underside tubing either. I did place tapes over those though. Opposite of what Dustin did. I will be able to see, at some point, if the fabric is being chafed in those locations. Easy to just throw the glue on and secure the fabric after the fact if I find its problematic.It was your picture that got me taking to Lars directly about it. I saw what you had done, although didn't know until now you didn't glue. I was told to glue and then I was asking about why I would also need doubles. That's where Lars said I didn't. No need.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

jiott
04-05-2019, 10:56 AM
Seems to me that gluing to those xbrace tubes will cause small ugly dimples where the glue pulls the fabric down below the level surface; would be very hard to avoid this. I think someone got their instructions misunderstood.

tracstarr
04-05-2019, 11:07 AM
No. This is correct as things currently stand. I don't think it looks bad. I personally don't like the look of the doublers.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190405/c4baa31cb29c7458cbbab356538f0603.jpg

The bits that stand out would be like that regardless. Mostly the gear attach points.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

jrevens
04-05-2019, 11:55 AM
Just as a matter of conversation, by "doublers" I assume you're referring to the finish tapes. IMHO, finish tapes are just as necessary with Oratex as with any other fabric covering system. One of the primary reasons for that, as I understand it, is to help prevent damage to the underlying primary covering from outside abrasion when something rubs against the fabric with a solid surface behind it (tubing or whatever), as well as to prevent catastrophic failure in the event of wear from the inside. They are also used to give extra protection to certain areas like leading edges, and to provide extra overlapping surface at fabric joints for additional strength, etc. In this instance I'm not saying you can't re-invent the wheel, but the techniques that have been developed have stood the test of time. One question that's on my mind is - if it's true that Oratex is stronger than Polyfiber in a couple of different ways, is it also weaker in abrasion resistance? I don't think so. When was the last time someone on this forum has seen conventional fabric on an airplane wear through from the inside out when it wasn't glued to the structure in that location? If the fabric has been properly installed, I suspect that it would be pretty rare... I could be wrong.

tracstarr
04-05-2019, 12:08 PM
Yeah, finish tapes.

However, as far as required...I don't feel so - based on what I know and have been told. In many cases it's still required, like leading edge. However, it's not required in such areas as those cross members, especially if they are glued to them. If it's glued, it's not going to rub.

Esser
04-05-2019, 12:21 PM
Is that black oratex?

tracstarr
04-05-2019, 12:56 PM
Yep it's the black. I really like it. It's the "back coated" version of it.

Clark in AZ
04-05-2019, 01:14 PM
What does that mean? Just curious.

Clark

Esser
04-05-2019, 01:35 PM
I had no idea black was available. It’s not listed on their site

tracstarr
04-05-2019, 02:09 PM
Sure is. In all qualities. I'll try to remember to send a sample with the other item I'm trying to get to you

tracstarr
04-05-2019, 02:10 PM
What does that mean? Just curious.

ClarkIt's less translucent. As in far less light is visible through it.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

Clark in AZ
04-05-2019, 03:35 PM
Thanks! Orange is the other new color they just added...

efwd
04-05-2019, 04:22 PM
Seems to me that gluing to those xbrace tubes will cause small ugly dimples where the glue pulls the fabric down below the level surface; would be very hard to avoid this. I think someone got their instructions misunderstood.
There is a pretty good way to avoid this. Lars had instructed me to do this on the stringers on the bottom and sides of the fuselage. After tightening the fabric on the side of the fuselage, before covering the top surface, I used a syringe to lay down glue into the surface where the fabric lays up against the stringer. Without pressure, I simply used a heat gun to heat the glue up and viola. My fabric is adhered and I won't be getting any small bits like sand and grasses settling in between the stringers and fabric. There is certainly an argument that bits will get caught in the valley between stringer and fabric though. Hopefully it won't be wedged in and a vacuum will still remove it all.

tracstarr
09-16-2019, 06:52 PM
Oh boy. A lot has happened since my last post here. With everything else that goes on, it's impossible to find time. I've been trying to post quick updates on twitter as they happen. I don't have time tonight for a full update, hopefully I can soon. Right now I've got everything covered (for the most part), engine on and buttoned up, cowling ready for finish sanding then paint, 90% of wiring done. Big thing I'm waiting on right now is my dash. I took forever deciding on my layout and hopefully getting it back from laser cutting the end of the week. Then it's on to getting that in and everything wired up. Follow me @northernkitfox

tracstarr
12-27-2020, 11:42 AM
Well, so much for updates on my project. More than a year since my last post here. As much as I hoped to chronical my build (as I love reading all the build threads myself) there just wasn't enough time in my day to do so. Especially with COVID. There was a very long stretch of not doing anything build related. Two kids under 5 at home full time, a full time job and trying to build...you can image I'm sure.

That said, lets see if I can provide some updates. I'm DONE! Well, 99% done. Waiting for inspection next month and a few little things to button up before then.

Here's how things went over the last year... from what I can remember. There was way more fabric to finish than I realized. All the little things that take 90% of the time. Using oratex I wanted to do as much as possible without paint. So my under wing and tail registration was all hand cut, masked and applied with oratex. That was a lot of work. Edge tapes on the tail were also very stressful and took multiple tries on the smallest radii. I actually hand cut a tape with a curve already in it - which worked out great.

The dash. As posted in the dash thread it turned out amazing. There was a lot of thought put into it - probably more than anything else. I wanted it minimal with only the most used items having physical toggle switches. Best part is I can easily modify those with the VPX if I find I don't like the current combination. I've sat in there for hours playing with it and setting up the g3x - I really like it.

Upholstery. I didn't have anything and figured I could do it all from scratch. That was way more work than expected as usual. I decided on a two tone interior to match the exterior. Also decided to use a high grade marine fabric. For the foam I went with a 2" thick high density cushion foam derived from soy bean. Materials alone cost me about $650 cdn. Cutting the foam wasn't too bad - but I did use some cheap test foam I had laying around to test out a few ways to cut for the control stick. I added an extra thickness to the bottom near the edge of about 1/4" to hopefully reduce any strain. One of the things I really wanted to do was be able to make the seat pan look great even with the cushions out. That's where things got difficult and I had to get creative. The fabric only stretched in one direction and there was no way I was going to one piece the entire pan. In the end I used panels with nice stitched edges to cover the entire seat pan. On the bottom with the help of Velcro the panel covers the seat box but still provides easy access. In the end it turned out great and I'm very happy with it. I do have to fix a few spots where the velcro wasn't correctly glued to the pan and it pealing off. No big deal though. The dash was covered with the same material (twice) as the first time I damaged it when installing into the plane. The door hydraulic piston tabs cut right into the dash - which is going to make it very precarious to remove if I have to. I also made some custom seat belt covers which really set it all off perfectly. The control stick covers were done with $20 shifter covers I found on amazon. They worked out ok.

Being a model 6, the turtle deck provided was not a single piece of lexan - so I decided to make my own. I purchased a nice dark smoke lexan and took measurements from the sheet metal deck I had. Using a friends 5 ton bender I cold bent the lexan and it turned out perfect. Now the next step to the custom deck was a special keyhole cutout made with acrylic to accommodate the BRS chute exit point. That turned out great and I made a custom ledge so that it sits flat with the surface and is held down with small plastic car clips. Had to make the insert twice. The acrylic shattered the first attempt.... exactly what it's suppose to do in this situation upon rocket exit. So I'm confident that won't be an issue.

Now of coarse there were all kinds of other little things to deal with... gas line completion and testing... only had a small drip leak in my sight tube on one side - and countless other things - oh, like the doors and designing a new custom handle/lock system.

With everything but a small list of chores left it was time to fill all the fluids and start the engine. Christmas eve was the big day. It was the first time taking the plane outside of the shop with wings on. It was a great feeling. (although a bit cold at -8C). The first thing I did notice however was that in the cold the oratex showed spots where I obviously didn't shrink evenly and I will have to go over again. (once back inside it the warm it was taught again - but I still have to go over it).

First thing on the list was fuel flow test. I opted for the 20 degree test as it was hard to find any other recommendation. With a friend helping we started the test - each pump individually and then together. Somethings a bit odd at this point. In each test we were seeing 4L/min - I'm suspecting that the filter is being bypassed either because it's blocked for some reason or backwards. I've not dug into it. Fuel pressure is fine when checked.

We went ahead with the engine start shortly after. First crank it roared to life. Seemed far too easy - but I wasn't complaining. Ran it for about 4 min as we started to notice a small ticking sound. Pulled the valve covers to find cylinder 3 intake and cylinder 2 exhaust valves were not holding and the rockers could easily be pushed down with one finger. After a quick chat with Rotax and finding out there was an SI last month in regards to this - we were told to run it up to 3x10min and bring up the rpms. After doing so and re-checking everything all cylinders were good and the tick was gone. Back inside we assessed everything. One small drip from the oil return line on the exhaust - tighten that up. The pilot side break line had a leak under the seat where it passes through the fabric. Worst though is there is a 2" crack in the windshield near the wing attach. Have to stop drill that and hopefully repair.

Next up was the W&B. I was guessing around 880 given I have a 35lb brs system. Wow, I was wrong. Clocked in at 907lbs. 68lbs on the tail. Things obviously add up faster than expected. 26" airstreaks, t3 tail with large wheel, brs. I also assume the made from scratch wings are heaver than factory built option too. Anyway, it is what it is. Now, this ended up putting me at a CG of 10.4". Further back than I was hoping, but not unexpected given the BRS in the baggage area.

So, next up is the chores list and final inspection mid january. Can't believe I'm here.

jrevens
12-27-2020, 03:15 PM
That's a nice report, Keith! Glad you're close to flying now!

Frontier Fox
12-27-2020, 06:19 PM
Sounds like you had a fun, but busy year. Best of luck with the inspection.

Meyer
12-27-2020, 10:01 PM
Congrats!

Things take alot of perseverance in this world lately.

tracstarr
03-10-2021, 09:16 AM
Had my final inspection last week. Phewf. Glad that's finally over. Took a long time to get there. I had 2 inspectors present as one was in training. I was a little stressed going into it as I really didn't know what to expect. Took about 4hr to complete and a lot of talking. I could see that one of the biggest things they were looking at was my understanding of everything. There wasn't much to fuss about in the end. A short list of things to fix including a few bolts that need to be a bit longer (more threads showing), a letter re: Oratex seams, oil vent line needs to be longer, I forgot to tighten 2 bolts after adjustments on flight controls, and replace the split loom. The last one was an interesting talk and we actually performed a burn test. Something that I didn't even think about. I had used some white split loom to try and match the interior frame color, turns out it will drip molten plastic as it burns and thus he wants it replaced. He was very interested in the Element fire extinguisher and didn't have any issues with it - which was great. He said he's going to convert his halon now.

Anyway, once I send back the paperwork with the items complete, he figures about 2-3 months before I get my airworthiness papers. So.... more waiting. Going to try and get it outside for a photoshoot soon as the weather warms.

Eric Page
03-10-2021, 10:29 AM
Fantastic news -- congrats!!

ken nougaret
03-10-2021, 10:18 PM
Congrats! And thanks for the hint on the Element fire extinguisher. I think I'll get one.

Kitfox Pilot
03-11-2021, 06:39 PM
, a letter re: Oratex seams,


Congrats on a good job!
What does the comment about oratex mean?

Shadowrider
03-11-2021, 10:39 PM
Awesome! Good job!

tracstarr
03-15-2021, 07:38 AM
, a letter re: Oratex seams,


Congrats on a good job!
What does the comment about oratex mean?

So here in Canada Oratex is a big unknown to most inspectors. If you want nice small seams and minimal edge tapes - they don't meet the "poly fiber" standards - which inspectors an inclined to follow. As a result I need written documentation from Manufacture to prove my case that my Oratex install is correct.

Kitfox Pilot
03-15-2021, 10:01 AM
Well that sounds like a pain. I wondered about inspectors and oratex but had never heard of a problem.

Shadowrider
03-15-2021, 10:17 AM
My DAR never even heard of Oratex. Just said "Your fabric looks good. Did you paint it or did you hire someone." I said, "No I did not paint it, it came that way." "What brand is it?" I told him Oratex, and he just said "Oh"..... That was it as far as fabric.

Kitfox Pilot
03-15-2021, 07:16 PM
HaHa, I wondered how many every heard of it. Seems most dar are older gentlemen , not many young ones into it.

tracstarr
05-14-2021, 01:42 PM
The day has come! I got my papers and she's cleared to fly! Hope to get her to the airfield next week and start flight tests as weather permits.

Here's a peek at the final product. (less a little cleaning as the dust has been collecting).


https://youtu.be/PaCzYpo0sNw

Geek
05-14-2021, 03:25 PM
Keith that is one wickedly nice aircraft. That panel is just perfect.

Gary

Iowa 67
05-14-2021, 03:46 PM
Awesome job!! Love the color scheme. Have fun flying it.

Benbell4140
05-14-2021, 03:50 PM
Very nice!


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Kitfox Pilot
05-14-2021, 06:35 PM
That looks great! What helmet is that?

Pushboy
05-16-2021, 07:14 PM
I'm sure Keith will chime in, but the basic helmet looks to be a "Team Wendy" specifically the EXFIL SAR Backcountry model with rails. The conversion to flight helmet is probably from Sky Cowboy Supply Company. They have various ways to convert helmets including individual parts or a DIY version or a complete flight helmet with visor and/or headset.

I can vouch for the comfort of the Team Wendy Helmet.

Dave.

https://www.teamwendy.com/search-rescue

https://www.skycowboysupplyco.com/shop-1

tracstarr
05-17-2021, 04:19 AM
That looks great! What helmet is that?Yep this is a sky cowboy setup using bose a20. So comfortable.

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patrick.hvac
05-25-2021, 01:26 PM
Any chance you can share the letter from BAF for MD-RA? I will be inquiring for the same thing shortly.

tracstarr
05-28-2021, 08:56 AM
Pm me direct. I can share contents, but it's specific to my tail number and build.

tracstarr
05-28-2021, 08:57 AM
Moving day. Should be in new home shortly. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210528/e4bb9a9a2300fa172f7e35fc9c12d518.jpg

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Kitfox Pilot
05-28-2021, 09:59 AM
That's got to be exciting!

tracstarr
05-29-2021, 02:19 PM
Made it. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210529/9a81c856383806ce1ddb09e547e4c5d0.jpg

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tracstarr
05-29-2021, 02:21 PM
Readyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210529/45b459e78d8a0934f86cff4c1ac0f40a.jpg

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tracstarr
05-29-2021, 02:27 PM
That was a very nerve racking 30km drive. I think I almost puked once or twice.

There's still a lot of little things to button up before first flight. Want to go through a full annual inspection just because of the transfer process. And for peace of mind.

I did attempt a taxi test today, but that didn't go well. First, there was something off about the engine. It just didn't sound right at lower RPM. At idle throttle the engine actually quit. Twice. The second issue is that the breaks won't hold more than 3000 rpms. They are not squishy and no leaks, so hoping they just need to be broken in.

As time in my day ran out I didn't get much more accomplished. However, I realize now on the drive home what the likely issue with the engine is. Winter gas. Although I added 20L of fresh gas today, the header tank still had some fuel from January and I didn't think to drain it. I'll do that monday and try again.

Not sure what to do about the breaks though. I can't easily control my taxi, so how am i going to break them in? Or maybe I just need more break given bigger tires?

DesertFox4
05-29-2021, 03:25 PM
Glad your Kitfox made the trip uneventful Keith. Also regarding your brakes, they will need "conditioning" before they become effective.


***If you have Beringer brakes here is their instructions for brake conditioning:

"CONDITIONNING PROCEDURE
When new brake pads have been installed, it is important to condition them properly to obtain the best
service life. Rated brake torque value is reached only after a full and proper conditioning of brake pads
and discs.
CAUTION: Brake torque value can be only 50% of rated brake torque before conditioning. It means
that even with full brake effort the aircraft will not stop as usual. Pilot must take into consideration this
parameter to avoid loss of aircraft control during the conditioning procedure.
CONDITIONNING PROCEDURE:
1. Taxi aircraft for 500m (1500 feet) with light brake effort.
2. Perform two (2) consecutive stops from 50-55 km/h / 30-35 knots down to 10km/h / 5 knots. Apply
light brake effort during these two stops; do not try to apply full brake effort."



***If they are Grove wheels and brakes, here is text copied directly from Grove's website concerning new brake wear in:


"Seat the Brake Pads — These non-asbestos organic composition brake pads require a thin layer of glazed material at the lining friction surface in order to provide maximum braking performance. This glazed layer is produced by the heat generated during normal braking operations, and is maintained during the life of the lining. Since new brake pads do not have this layer, it must be created by the following process:

1. Heat the pads by “dragging the brakes” while taxiing at a slow speed with moderate power. Do not use maximum braking pressure.

2. Allow the brakes to cool for 5 - 10 minutes

3. Test the results at full static run-up. If the brakes hold, break-in is complete. If they fail to hold, repeat steps 1 and 2 until they do."

Keith, here is a link to that specific page if you need to check for any other technical info on Grove's wheels/brake combos: https://www.groveaircraft.com/brakeinstall.html
(https://www.groveaircraft.com/brakeinstall.html)

Kitfox Pilot
05-29-2021, 04:15 PM
I think your truck will handle the load, haha.
How was the Airmaster prop to install?

tracstarr
05-29-2021, 08:37 PM
Desertfox4 thanks for the info. Very likely my issue. Just standard Grove.

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tracstarr
05-29-2021, 08:40 PM
I think your truck will handle the load, haha.
How was the Airmaster prop to install?It was easy to install. Torque calculations with extension were looked over several times first. That was really the most difficult bit.

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airlina
05-30-2021, 03:27 AM
Keith, Good suggestions about brake conditioning , and let me add my 2 cents . I have standard cleveland brakes on my Series 5 and over the years have had different size tires on my plane. I currently run the Desser 22" tundras . Two things come to mind when looking at your brake performance (after the aforementioned conditioning) Tire size (size does matter) and brake technique . The bigger the tire the more brake power required (and you got some big ones, tires that is) and technique - for full stopping power , I have to get my feet right to the top of the brake pedals for maximum effect. I have tested this on wet grass by watching the tires out the window after landing and using various brake pressures, the only way the tires will lock up and slide on the wet grass is with my toes really leveraging the top of the brake pedals. I'm not doing STOL contests or gravel bar landings so my brakes are sufficient for my operations and I actually like that they aren't "touchy" and I don't fear putting her on her nose by overbraking. Hope this helps. Bruce N199CL

tracstarr
05-30-2021, 10:33 AM
Keith, Good suggestions about brake conditioning , and let me add my 2 cents . I have standard cleveland brakes on my Series 5 and over the years have had different size tires on my plane. I currently run the Desser 22" tundras . Two things come to mind when looking at your brake performance (after the aforementioned conditioning) Tire size (size does matter) and brake technique . The bigger the tire the more brake power required (and you got some big ones, tires that is) and technique - for full stopping power , I have to get my feet right to the top of the brake pedals for maximum effect. I have tested this on wet grass by watching the tires out the window after landing and using various brake pressures, the only way the tires will lock up and slide on the wet grass is with my toes really leveraging the top of the brake pedals. I'm not doing STOL contests or gravel bar landings so my brakes are sufficient for my operations and I actually like that they aren't "touchy" and I don't fear putting her on her nose by overbraking. Hope this helps. Bruce N199CL

Yeah, that was obviously another thought (big tires need more breaks). I'll see how things go tomorrow. Thanks.

tracstarr
05-31-2021, 12:29 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210531/f29e1933283d9405fce8878ee7724bb5.jpg

That wasn't there before. :(

Noticed this on my walk around today. Think it's the result of the rough engine on Friday.

Things never go as planned. Today I did empty 20L of fuel and added some fresh in the hopes of doing a run up again. However, it looks like my last run sucked in all the coolant leaving the reservoir empty and I had none with me. Not use to being in a new spot without all my things. Actually also forgot my keys for the plane today too.

Ended up doing just a few little things. Wanted to do the final install of my BRS rocket too, but didn't have blue lock tight with me. Hopefully I'll get everything in the hanger soon so there's nothing left to forget.

tracstarr
06-11-2021, 06:13 AM
Still some gremlins before getting her airborne. Rough engine is cleaned up with fresh gas. Idle adjusted. Now two issues remain. Fuel pressure is low once running and .... um..... turns out I reversed the break lines. That was surprisingly difficult to realize. So, have to drain the lines and switch them. Likely they got crossed going through the center console. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Also, anyone have a picture or part number of the saftey pins that are suppose to go through the wing pins? I can't seem to find that anywhere in the manual.

patrick.hvac
06-11-2021, 06:54 AM
The safety pins are on pg19 of the wing assembly tab.
The rear lugs get a AN380-2-3 cotter pin (P/N 91073)
The front lugs get a safety pin AN416-1 (p/n 91098)

tracstarr
06-13-2021, 09:55 AM
The safety pins are on pg19 of the wing assembly tab.
The rear lugs get a AN380-2-3 cotter pin (P/N 91073)
The front lugs get a safety pin AN416-1 (p/n 91098)

Thanks! My manual is for a 6 so the pages don't match up, nor do i see that pin listed anywhere! Although, I do recall seeing something like that in the "leftover" parts bin. Will have to go take a look. Thanks Pat!

tracstarr
07-12-2021, 02:35 PM
Well, after more than a month at the hanger working out all the little details - some more frustrating than others - Northern Fox took flight yesterday! I've struggled with breaks, tail wheel concerns and just a bunch of little things that needed to be completed after moving to the hanger. The final puzzle was an adjustment on the prop to allow a finer pitch to reach full rpms for take off.

I only have phone video as my go-pro failed to turn on and I dropped my dslr on the ramp - rendering it useless.

So far 5 take offs and landings and initial testing showing a stall speed of about 37 kts and cruise of about 88 kts. Lots more testing to go!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrS7QEIjcLo

jrevens
07-12-2021, 03:13 PM
Wow... good going! Looks like it went very well. Congratulations!

efwd
07-12-2021, 03:32 PM
Congratulations! Now, let the leisure times begin.

DesertFox4
07-12-2021, 05:26 PM
Congrats Keith. That’s how it’s done. Flying off a beautiful grass strip on first flight and add in a little crosswind too. 👍👍

alexM
07-12-2021, 08:10 PM
Awesome. Congratulations. Plane looks great

avidflyer
07-12-2021, 09:01 PM
Congratulations! Glad it's up and flying. Hope you have lots of enjoyment from all the effort you put into it. Looks good! JImChuk

Shadowrider
07-13-2021, 01:25 PM
Sweet! Another kitfox is born!

Kitfox Pilot
07-13-2021, 04:06 PM
Very nice first flight! Looks like a very nice strip also. Congratulations!