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JoeRuscito
12-09-2018, 11:02 AM
Alright, going to pick up my kit on the 19th! Super excited! Quick build wings, Grove gear, and a lot of the available options. Building in my garage (about 20ft x 20ft).

Ive been on the forum for a while now, learning as much as I can. I really appreciate all of the info and build logs, so I plan to do my best to log my own build here.

This will be my first build and also the first airplane I will own. I really enjoy building things and larger projects so Im looking forward to the build almost as much as eventually getting to fly it.

Im sure there will be lots of questions and challenges for me ahead, the support here is amazing and I thank you all ahead of time for the advice/tips/help Im sure you will provide.

Stoked to be part of this awesome community!

Thanks!

efwd
12-09-2018, 11:14 AM
That's great Joe. Welcome aboard.

airlina
12-09-2018, 02:30 PM
Joe , you have the right attitude going in, enjoy the process as much as the result, you are embarking on a fun journey. Bruce N199CL

Meyer
12-09-2018, 02:44 PM
I get my kit in about 6 weeks. We will have to compare notes. Good luck!!!

jmodguy
12-09-2018, 03:52 PM
6 weeks? Crap that’s pretty soon!

Bryan
12-09-2018, 07:49 PM
Welcome aboard Joe. You will love it. These are great kits and the build is so much fun. Enjoy every minute of it and the forum is sooo much help. Keep the excitement going.

Frontier Fox
12-09-2018, 08:23 PM
Hey Joe
Good to see another Kitfox build in the works. I started in October and am having a blast. It is so fun to see things start to take shape.

aviator79
12-10-2018, 07:47 AM
Welcome to the fun part, Joe! I look forward to following your progress.

JoeRuscito
12-10-2018, 10:07 AM
Thanks all!

Meyer, it will be great that we will be at similar places throughout the build!

Joe, Thanks for the link to your build. Following along will for sure be helpful!


I just reserved my tail number 1121E (it may change but I needed one for builders insurance). I wanted one that wasn't a mouthful and it has some significance for me.

Also, worked with Falcon to get the insurance rolling. Just over $400 for the year, insured up to $70k. I thought that number made sense.

Any tips on how I can best prepare in the next week for the kit to arrive? Materials I should get ahead of time? Should I/can I build rotisseries ahead of time or wait? Garage is clean and mostly empty!

Id like to hit the ground running as best I can. I have a full time job but I can work from home a couple days a week so it at least saves me the commute. I'm going to shoot for 20-30 hours a week including the weekends. No commitments other than work. No kids and super supportive girlfriend!

aviator79
12-10-2018, 10:53 AM
You can definitely build the rotisseries ahead of time. Spar spacing is 27.5 in.

Mark123
12-17-2018, 07:01 AM
Looking forward to your build, Joe. You must be counting the days until you can get started!

JoeRuscito
12-17-2018, 10:06 AM
Rotisseries mostly assembled and garage mostly clean. They are long and I’ll final fit them when I have the wings. Flying out to Boise Tuesday. Taking delivery Wednesday!!

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6333

aviator79
12-17-2018, 10:35 AM
They look well built, Joe. It could just be the photo, but they look low to me. Will the trailing edge clear the bottom? You could always swing the trailing edge over the top, but there will be times you want to have the leading edge up.

JoeRuscito
12-17-2018, 10:42 AM
The base of the PVC pivot is currently at 33 inches. I got this number from a previous rotisserie post. It seemed low to me as well so I left provisions to adjust up (that’s why they extend so far above). What is the best height?

aviator79
12-17-2018, 10:49 AM
It should clear by a good margin then. It just doesn't look that tall in the picture.

colospace
12-17-2018, 11:12 AM
If you haven't already, I would make some provision to firmly fix the wing at any angle you need.

JoeRuscito
12-17-2018, 11:31 AM
Thanks for the feedback Gary, as I have it designed, once the wings are in place a block is added above the pvc to keep the pipe from racking in the spars and keep it square to the ground. Then a large 1/2 in bolt is placed through the two upright 2x4s and though the block with a wing nut on the other end. The pipe 1.5 in is oversized for the gap between the 2x4s. The thinking is that by tightening the wingnut the pipe is squeezed increasing the force required to rotate.

JoeRuscito
12-17-2018, 11:49 AM
Maybe yall can weigh in on this. I'm trying to get as prepared as possible so I can start building immediately. It seems hysoling the tail is one of the first tasks. Having never worked with hysol before I've been doing some reading. What are the opinions on using static mixing guns? Like the links below. It seems most just use a scale and mix, but there are a coupe mentions of these guns and it would seem much easier/cleaner to me. Thoughts? Also maybe a dumb question, but if using the gun I bet it's a mess trying to reload each side of the syringe with the two parts of hysol. I can't imagine the plunger opening is that large in diameter and the hysol seems pretty thick! I guess this also applies to loading the syringes that kitfox supplies even after the hysol has been mixed. Any good method to doing this?

https://www.mcmaster.com/74695a71
https://www.mcmaster.com/74695a34
https://www.mcmaster.com/74695a944

Esser
12-17-2018, 02:13 PM
The guns mix for you. Pop in the cartridges, put a new tip on, and squeeze. Easis way to do it but it’s more expensive. You’ll get in a groove. My tail as a mess. Good thing it’s covered now. Tape off 1/2” of each side of the rib so you can pull off a clean line. Dab a gloved finger in alcohol to make smooth filets

efwd
12-17-2018, 02:16 PM
wellll, I wouldn't want you to toss the Hysol away that comes in the kit but....
I bought the gun and the mixing tips, many of them. I bought pre-filled double barrel syringes of Hysol also available from the same outfit. It will cost you plenty if you hope to do the whole job that way. I was not aware of the empty barrel syringes but I would certainly give that a try with the product that comes in the kit. I bet it is no fun to try to get the product into the syringe though. Don't bother trying to mix up Hysol and stuff it into a syringe. It will begin setting up quickly and it becomes very difficult to push the plunger. The gun and syringe set up is one thing I will always recommend. The nice thing is, you only waste the product that is inside the mixing tip.

JoeRuscito
12-17-2018, 02:23 PM
Understood, ya I was thinking continuing to refill the cartridge as I go. It's quite a premium to buy the prefilled syringes.

Correct me if I wrong but don't people use syringes to apply premixed hysol? If not why does the tool kit come with 50 ml syringes?

Esser
12-17-2018, 04:13 PM
I applied pre mixed with the syringes that came with the kit. It was my favourite method. Get lots of alcohol to clean them out after.

aviator79
12-17-2018, 04:26 PM
McMaster Carr has the best price I could find on the mixing gun, nozzles, and cartridges. Before I switched to that, I was buying veterinary syringes from Amazon. They are about a buck each, so I didn't bother cleaning them.

If I did it again, I'd use the mixing gun for everything. The adhesive is like 6 times more expensive this way, but you never over-mix, so you don't throw as much in the trash. You're spending ~$80k to build a plane. Splurge on the convenience.

colospace
12-17-2018, 04:34 PM
I had never seen those at McMaster-Carr either. For the large jobs, I used veterinary syringes. I opened up the hole slightly with a drill to produce a larger bead and easier flow (to avoid the problem Eddie mentioned). I also cleaned the syringe with alcohol just to be sure.
I weighed/mixed the adhesive and then loaded using a popsicle stick; a little messy, but not too bad.
Don't mix too large a batch at a time as the exothermic reaction will really heat things up and reduce the working life drastically.

jiott
12-17-2018, 07:03 PM
You don't need to bother weighing the Hysol for mixing; 50-50 by volume (measuring spoons or similar) is fine. I used popsicle sticks for mixing, and then put it in the big syringes-not all that hard to do. Later on near the end of the project when I wasn't using such large amounts, I bought the cartridges and nozzles for the convenience.

jrevens
12-17-2018, 08:14 PM
I did the same as Jim.

tracstarr
12-18-2018, 01:39 PM
I just mixed small batches on a mixing pad and did it by weight. After the first few you really get the hang of it and most of the time you can judge the amount you need. It was/is very rare to have much waste if you plan correctly.

Flyboy66
12-18-2018, 02:44 PM
Here are some things to acquire if you don’t already have them.

If you bought the tool kit from Kitfox, I would get an extra #30 and #40 drill bit (12 inch)

Amazon- 60 cc syringes (15 to 20)

Ace Hardware/Home Depot- 2 gallons denatured alcohol (cleanup of Hysol)

Harbor Freight- spring clips (to hold ribs and other stuff in place 10 small and 10 medium)

Amazon extra #30 and #40 drill bits (10 each- regular length)

Amazon- food scale. One that will do grams. Sometimes Hysol is needed in small quantities and a scale that does ounces isn’t precise enough in my opinion.

A couple hundred Dixie cups (small and not wax coated)

Amazon. Hose clamps to fit a 3” hose (for holding the lift strut brackets in spar while setting sweep, dihedral and washout) 4 of these.

Extra clecos. 20. For the #30 holes.

Order extra rivets from Kitfox. Feel free to message me and I will tell you which ones and how many. You will probably have to drill out a few rivets because they didn’t seat properly.

Aircraft spruce- AN3-4, AN3-5 bolts and the nylock nuts to fit them (20 or so of each). AN960-10, and AN960-10L washers. 50 of each. They are used for everything and it is nice to have extra hardware. Spruce charges about 8 bucks or more for shipping even for smaller orders so get a list together when you need stuff and order it all at the same time.

There are other things, but I can’t remember them right now.

Steve

colospace
12-18-2018, 02:46 PM
Yeah, I only used the syringes for the bigger jobs. Like Jim, most of the time I only needed a spoon or two of Hysol, and the further into the build, the less was needed each time. Always quick and easy to mix a bit more rather than waste a bunch. Same with SuperFil. I did use the Hysol dual cartridges near the end since it would have been an expensive waste to buy another quart.

aviator79
12-18-2018, 03:34 PM
Here are some things to acquire if you don’t already have them.

Amazon extra #30 and #40 drill bits (10 each- regular length...

You can get Cobalt #30 and #40 bits cheap from Spruce. 3/16 is a good idea too.

I have tons of rivets left over. Hopefully there's not something I forgot to put them in...

Flyboy66
12-18-2018, 03:59 PM
I had no rivets left over (so far) and had too few for the lift strut attach brackets. And I had to drill out 3 of those because they didn’t seat right when I pulled them. There are a few sizes I would recommend having some extras.

And if you order the Butt Rib close out option, it needs some rivets to secure them that are not included in the kit.

jiott
12-18-2018, 05:02 PM
Maybe they changed the quantities in the newer kits, but I also had oodles of extra rivets left over, also had many nuts and washers left over. Bolts very few left over.

efwd
12-18-2018, 05:12 PM
I'm like Brian, nail biting at the thought of not having used some somewhere I needed too. Plenty rivets left over. Of course, when I needed a rivet of a certain type, It was never the kind that I had remaining in my stock. Wouldn't want any new folks to be mislead, I had all the stuff that was required for the build. The extra rivets I was needing were for modifications or custom work like mounting Auto Pilot Servos.

JoeRuscito
12-22-2018, 08:15 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys!

I now have an airplane in my garage!!!

Picking it up was easy and Brandon and Heather were super helpful.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=528&pictureid=6336

I completed the inventory check today and got the garage mostly sorted.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6337
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6338
I did have to raise the mounts a bit. They were 33" from the floor, not the cross bar.

I plan to really get started tomorrow!

Frontier Fox
12-22-2018, 09:20 PM
Joe
Glad you have your Kitfox home. How was the trip?

DesertFox4
12-22-2018, 09:37 PM
Congrats Joe. Enjoy your build.:)

aviator79
12-23-2018, 03:12 AM
Man that's exciting Joe! Looking forward to following your progress.

ken nougaret
12-23-2018, 06:57 AM
Those pics bring back memories. Good luck and enjoy.
Ken

Meyer
12-23-2018, 07:46 AM
Good luck! Mine arrives in a month

JoeRuscito
12-23-2018, 08:57 AM
First steps are sometimes the hardest to take! Trying to get a plan and order of operations here so I don't miss anything and have my priorities straight.

First, Im thinking I should varnish the ribs that have been installed on the quick build wings to protect them before starting anything else. Make sense? Any reason not to?

Second, horizontal, I think Ill tackle this next in conjunction with the elevator.

Next a question, the manual states you need to prep all of the powder coated parts and cover any missing/thin areas. I.e. down mount holes. I looked over the parts and there are no glaring bare spots that I can see. Is this a hold over from older kits? How much prep/repair have you all had to do?

aviator79
12-23-2018, 09:13 AM
When in doubt, just follow the instructions in the order they are presented in the manual. I don't see any harm in varnishing the ribs right now, but it's also not urgent to get them protected. I'd get the other wood bits installed and then varnish all the wood at the same time. You're less likely to waste varnish that way, and will use fewer consumables, etc.

I've had to do very little powdercoat touchup, and then only because of my own clumsiness in dropping a wrench or something.

efwd
12-23-2018, 09:59 AM
Funny, any prep I did involved removing powder coat. i.e. mounting holes. Lots of stuff to use reamers on.

JoeRuscito
12-23-2018, 10:22 AM
Ok that's what I suspected. The powder coating must have improved over the years, mine even has paint down some pretty deep holes!

Thanks!

airlina
12-23-2018, 11:27 AM
Joe, I purchased my Series 5 from the pre Mcbeans era from the previous Skystar co. and the quality of the powder coat was suspect on my kit (among other things). With any paint job , prep is 75% of the job, and it was apparent that this was not done on some of my powdercoated parts. I had to take them down to bare metal and repaint or touch up many areas. Sounds like the Mcbeans have done a better job with quality control. Bruce N199CL

JoeRuscito
12-23-2018, 12:51 PM
Normal to have to remove quite a lot of material on the horizontal stab rib slots to get them to fit at the positions in the manual? Some are quite tight and bend if I try to make them square.

Also when fitting against metal supports do you sand to clear the welds to allow a flush fit?

aviator79
12-23-2018, 06:00 PM
Yes and yes.

If I m honest, I was disappointed by the fit of those ribs. In the age of CAD ubiquity and CNC manufacturing, I feel like these should have fit pretty close to perfect.

bbs428
12-23-2018, 06:38 PM
Agreed.

My own humble opinion is it's just an easy way adjust for minor differences in the welded structures.

More important to line up all stab/elev ribs nicely with no twists and sand smooth

All the best!
Enjoy your build! :)

Meyer
12-23-2018, 07:35 PM
I thought I read that you should not varnish until after hysol. Something about hysol over varnish = not good.

JoeRuscito
12-23-2018, 08:50 PM
Made some progress today.... Sanding the ribs took a small learning curve and some are looser then I would have liked, but overall I think they are in good shape.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6339

On the elevator it seems to me that the second longest rib (I.e. not the longest) should be the most inbound due to the radius of the aft most bar. The fit is much closer this way if I am trying to line up with the horizontal. Is this what yall have found? See below. The one my finger is on is close to the position I think it should be. The slightly longer one would go on the other side of the rod to the right.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6340
Also the third rib from the center is quite loose with zero sanding. Maybe I don't have the order correct.

To clarify I was planning on varnishing the factory installed wing ribs, assuming I won't have to Hysol anything to them down the road. Correct me if Im wrong.

jrevens
12-23-2018, 08:59 PM
...

On the elevator it seems to me that the second longest rib (I.e. not the longest) should be the most inbound due to the radius of the aft most bar. The fit is much closer this way if I am trying to line up with the horizontal. Is this what yall have found? See below. The one my finger is on is close to the position I think it should be. The slightly longer one would go on the other side of the rod to the right.
Also the third rib from the center is quite loose with zero sanding. Maybe I don't have the order correct.

Sounds right to me, Joe. As far as the order goes, do your ribs have part numbers printed on them? I believe mine did. That would confirm the correct placement of them.

JoeRuscito
12-23-2018, 10:19 PM
I didn’t see part numbers but I’ll look tomorrow.

Here’s another one. Scotch bright 7447 is the go to for sanding wing spars. The manual even states this is because other sand paper commonly has aluminum oxide abrasive and 7447 does not. But from the 3m website 7447 is made from fine grade aulininun oxide....

jrevens
12-23-2018, 11:53 PM
Aluminum oxide is what you want. I think that that is probably a technical error in the manual. Aluminum oxide is a common abrasive and it is also formed naturally on the surface of aluminum. There are many other types of abrasives, such as silicon carbide, which would not be good choices for aluminum.

JoeRuscito
12-24-2018, 07:49 AM
Hysol Quality Control Check:

Gave it my first go this morning. Mixed 15g:15g (way too much!), and about a teaspoon of flox. They aren't the prettiest but Id love some feedback. I tried to use as little as possible to get a decent fillet on the stiffeners. I only did the two outbound most rib on the horizontal so I could learn a bit before diving in.

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6341
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6342
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6343
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6344
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6345

efwd
12-24-2018, 10:45 AM
Hello Joe
Don't be hesitant to utilize more Hysol for the filets. Mine probably had twice as much as what I see in your photos. I found that if I whipped much of it off then it might pop free when I bumped it with my various body parts as I navigated around the wing. I even broke two false ribs by catching the trailing edge on my shirt sleeve etc etc. Leave yourself a nice 45 degree bead of hysol on both sides. I found that a popsicle stick has a nice radius as a scraper that leaves what I considered a large enough bead.

jiott
12-24-2018, 10:47 AM
Agree with Eddie.

JoeRuscito
12-25-2018, 08:31 AM
Merry Christmas everyone!

I’ve started on the control column while I have some Hysol curing. As I’m assembling I’m wondering if anything is done for coronation protection of these parts? Going by the manual I’m press fitting and riveting parts. Will I be expected to disassemble these later on?

aviator79
12-25-2018, 09:14 AM
There are no points for "neat" here, so don't skimp.

JoeRuscito
12-25-2018, 04:10 PM
Ok. Ive gotten most of the horizontal ribs installed. Ill go around one more time and get any joints I missed due to clamps. Ive thickened up my Hysol joints quite a bit, actually makes it much easier to work with.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6346
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6350
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6351
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6352

I did find a bit of light power coating, so I gave it a coat of the touch up that came with the kit
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6347

Then I got stated on the control column, has some issues with pressing the stick bearing but got it sorted where Im happy with it. Then I ran into this...

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6348
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6349

I removed the control stick pivot bolt to see if it would give me enough room but without luck. It seems that the hole and/or weldment is misplaced. Am I missing something? Any tips here?

PapuaPilot
12-26-2018, 08:12 AM
Tip on the bolt that can't go in:

Carefully pull the bottom stick assembly upward, away from the pivot bearings (this might be tight from the pivot bearings being already installed). Move the it enough so the bottom bolt can go through the big hole and be safetied. Then realign the assembly with the pivot bearings and reinstall the pivot bolt.

JoeRuscito
12-26-2018, 08:42 AM
Hey Phil,

Thanks for the suggestion. I did just that but there still is not enough room. If I do get it in, getting a torque wrench of some type might also be a trick!

Is the bolt generally this low?

JoeRuscito
12-26-2018, 01:45 PM
Yet another problem... I’ve installed the control column bushing in the mounting bracket bearing. It is barely larger than the bearings, so when installed and torqued it takes a lot of force to move the column. Is my bushing short? Can I lightly sand the tops of the brass bearings down?

Esser
12-26-2018, 01:53 PM
Sand that bearing out until it’s completely free. Also on my build, I had to use washers to play with the pilot side mount. If I bolted to the airframe, it would really torque the tube and bind it up. All the stuff you are doing now just needs a little attention to make it all friction free. The rest of the build everything fits better.

JoeRuscito
12-26-2018, 06:18 PM
Ok bearing bushing sanded and smooth. Now I have the control column mounted and back drilled. I have some friction, not excessive but I’m not sure how much is acceptable. My control sticks are back ordered so it’s hard to gauge. Right now moving the sticks right to left (aileron) is free I.e. little to no friction. Moving forward and aft, when moving the column there’s a good amount of friction. Enough to hold the column in place when released, but smooth and similar through the range. Does this seem correct?

Shadowrider
12-26-2018, 07:56 PM
You want no friction, and no play either. I sanded until my control stick will fall to whatever way the aircraft is leaning. All the points of friction will add up so get them to move freely. I took apart the nylon bushing about 4 dozen times it seemed.

efwd
12-26-2018, 10:44 PM
mine were a bit tight as you describe yours to be. I had to pull mine out and try again. I am not sure if the weather made things different but I agree, make things free as possible without creating play.

JoeRuscito
12-28-2018, 06:21 AM
Made some progress the last few days.

I got the link bolt into the control column, I had to grind 0.5 mm from one side of the bolt head, and do some wiggling but I got it in and I dont think Ive compromised the bolt in any meaningful way.

Then, after about 20 tries, in out, in out, got the column bracket bushing smooth and square enough that I'm happy with the feel. Its mounted. I have an order from aircraft spruce to replace the well used lock nuts. No need to replace the actual bolts correct?

On to the other side of the control column, I found a good way to sand the plastic mount/bearing, the kitfox supplied hysol syringe is a almost perfect fit with one wrap of sandpaper. Still needs some sanding to make it completely free when torqued down, but getting close. Also need to replace those nylocks!
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6357

Also found a good way to ream the flap handle mount. This one was a pia! Ground a hex on the very end of the reamer so I could use a small socket. Mostly difficult because the tube axis is not quite parallel to the axis of the tab hole, and both are so close to the frame.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6356

jonstark
12-28-2018, 08:24 AM
My two biggest faults are not having used nutplates for the rudder control attachment through the floorboards and not having spent more time getting the rudder controls to move freely. As they are now “sticky” I have to neutralize any rudder input. PITA.

Jon

jiott
12-28-2018, 11:52 AM
I remember on my control column mounting bracket, I had to experiment with removing or adding washers (thick, thin) under the bracket mounting holes to get it to lie square and flat in relation to the horizontal control tube. Once I did, it torqued down without binding.
The plastic bearing/mount is a bugger because when you torque down the bolts, the nylon distorts more than you might think. I had to sand and sand until it felt somewhat loosey goosey before torquing; then it was just right after torquing. I also greased it lightly.

airlina
12-28-2018, 12:27 PM
Joe, you have probably already figured this out , but go the the local hardware store for a variety of the approriate sized plain nuts to use for the put together , then take apart assemblies and save your good stopnuts for final assembly. Just flag them with some masking tape so you remember to reinstall the stop nuts when you are satisfied with the assembly. I can see you are becoming a homebuilder already as your ingenuity is starting to show. You will need this throughout the build process. Wait till you tackle the rudder torque tube assembly , it gave me fits, but make sure you get it to work nice and smooth with no drag , or you will regret it later( See note from Jon above). Bruce N199CL

JoeRuscito
12-28-2018, 10:06 PM
Jim... it sure is a bugger but I’m getting there. Maybe one one sanding session and I should be good.

Bruce, I just bought AN duplicates that way if I forget they are already the correct hardware. To that point though, I have been using paper clips in place of cotter pins, is it safe to say unless the manual says otherwise I can cotterpin the bell ranks and control rigging?

I’m working on the floor boards now. Can someone tell me what this cut out is for? In the upper left. It doesn’t seem to be for the weldment unless it needs some major sanding. Does something pass through here later?

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6358

And lastly, I seem to have gotten a rod end absolutely stuck on the aileron rod. It was a bit sticky going on due to some extra powder coat on the end of the threads but nothing extreme, got about half way on and stopped, now it is not budging. Any suggestions? Already put it in the vice with no luck, I’m concerned I’m going to twist off the thread.

PapuaPilot
12-29-2018, 07:30 AM
I’m working on the floor boards now. Can someone tell me what this cut out is for? In the upper left. It doesn’t seem to be for the weldment unless it needs some major sanding. Does something pass through here later?

And lastly, I seem to have gotten a rod end absolutely stuck on the aileron rod. It was a bit sticky going on due to some extra powder coat on the end of the threads but nothing extreme, got about half way on and stopped, now it is not budging. Any suggestions? Already put it in the vice with no luck, I’m concerned I’m going to twist off the thread.

I think the hole in the floor board is a possible place for electrical cables to pass through.

As far as the rod end:
- Try letting it soak in lubricant for 12-24 hours and see if it can spin off.
- If it is stuck because of powder coat you may need to heat it up locally with a heat gun/torch so that the PC melts temporarily. Be careful so you don't ruin the PC on the pushrod.

JoeRuscito
12-29-2018, 10:38 AM
The sides of my center council seem to be a little high. Should they be cut down?

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6359

Esser
12-29-2018, 11:10 AM
I trimmed mine down with a large bench belt sander.

jrevens
12-29-2018, 12:16 PM
...
I’m working on the floor boards now. Can someone tell me what this cut out is for? In the upper left. It doesn’t seem to be for the weldment unless it needs some major sanding. Does something pass through here later? ...


I think it is probably just notched to allow the panel to fit properly and clear the square tubing that is the bottom of the door opening. Mine has the same cut-out. It may be a little larger than it has to be.

aviator79
12-29-2018, 01:03 PM
-To free the rod end, try a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Soak several hours or overnight. I learned this from British motorcycle gurus for unsticking old bolts. In your case, acetone softens powder coat, so I would think it will work well. Keep it off the powder coat you want to keep though!

The floorboard notch is jut to clear that square tube.

-My console sides were high and required trimming.

colospace
12-29-2018, 04:11 PM
Joe, you have probably already figured this out , but go the the local hardware store for a variety of the approriate sized plain nuts to use for the put together , then take apart assemblies and save your good stopnuts for final assembly. Just flag them with some masking tape so you remember to reinstall the stop nuts when you are satisfied with the assembly. I can see you are becoming a homebuilder already as your ingenuity is starting to show. You will need this throughout the build process. Wait till you tackle the rudder torque tube assembly , it gave me fits, but make sure you get it to work nice and smooth with no drag , or you will regret it later( See note from Jon above). Bruce N199CL

I used hardware store hex nuts for a lot of temporary installations. I painted them with red fingernail polish to make them stand out as non-flight.

JoeRuscito
12-29-2018, 04:34 PM
Thanks for all the help guys! So nice to come back and have all my questions answered! The red nail polish is a good idea. And I’ll give the acetone a try!

Here’s my next one. On to the rudder pedals. They required A LOT of sanding to get smooth. Am I supposed to add back any type of corrosion protection before riveting the assembly together?

Frontier Fox
12-29-2018, 09:25 PM
To trim the side panels I used a utility knife and straight edge. Just marked where it needed to be cut, set the straight edge on and scribe it a half dozen times. Then set the scribed line on the edge of your bench and snap it off. Finish it off with a file. Easy Peasy.

Esser
12-30-2018, 11:52 AM
Thanks for all the help guys! So nice to come back and have all my questions answered! The red nail polish is a good idea. And I’ll give the acetone a try...

Copious amounts of grease.

JoeRuscito
12-30-2018, 04:17 PM
Do the center council rivets need to be countersunk? It looks like the ones supplied in my kit under the part number called out in the manual are not countersunk. I assume the upholstery later will be able to accomadate the head of a standard rivet correct?

Esser
12-30-2018, 04:21 PM
Hmm on my kit they were counter sunk

efwd
12-30-2018, 04:51 PM
countersunk or not, mine were pull rivets, so they aren't smooth. I put 1/8 closed cell upholstery foam over the center portion and put the fabric over that. Other than slots for the flaps and pedal adjust levers my center console is smooth and soft.:) down side, the fuel valve placard bows up on either end being that its rectangular and the valve gets tightened down on the middle. Not bad but I didn't think about that. I could enlarge the hole on that placard and have it ride around the brass valve but It isn't bad enough to make me do that.

aviator79
12-30-2018, 07:11 PM
I used counter sunk pull rivets. Covers with fabric only. It's like they aren't there.

Frontier Fox
12-30-2018, 07:48 PM
I used counter sunk pull rivets also.

JoeRuscito
01-02-2019, 07:05 AM
Made some progress the last few days. I've run up on a few road blocks due to back ordered parts. Mainly the bushing and bearing for the horizontal and the master cylinders for the pedals. I hope to get an update from the factory once they are back in office.

Center council is fit and drilled, floor boards are in and ready for varnish. Pedals are in and drilled. Vertical and rudder are 90% hysoled.

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6361

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6364

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6363
Seat pan is fit, sanded, and installed. The nut plates were a bit of a pain, they like to cross thread. Even when they are thread correctly it's easy to spin the head on the screw due to the locking pinch point.

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6362
These are the rivets I was supplied as "flush heads" Maybe the thin head conforms to the countersunk hole? I would expect them to have a matching chamfer under the head. Can anyone confirm these are or are not flush rivets?

efwd
01-02-2019, 09:48 AM
Nut plates with floating nuts are more expensive but really help with getting hardware into them. Untill the nut plate gets a little use you may, as youve discovered, strip a few screw heads out. The rivet you show looks like what I was provided. It's been awhile so I don't recall exactly. They don't install as a flush solid rivet would. As others have said, the fabric will cover it I suppose. Fabric supplied in the interior kit is much thicker and more durable than some faux suade fabric I had bought to trial a project I had in mind for the console. The supplied fabric was thicker and doesn't conform to grooves and crevices that I had hoped it would so I am certain you won't see the rivet heads as others have stated.

aviator79
01-02-2019, 09:59 AM
The nut plates also don't forget very well on those tabs. I used Rivnuts.

Esser
01-02-2019, 10:03 AM
I loathe nutplates and replace them with high quality steel rivnuts where ever I could.

I left the nutplates in the wing tip and because the supplied screws are Phillips, half of them got destroyed by being stripped while trying to make the nutplates pinched part open up. . I replaced all the Phillips screw on the wing tip with SS Roberts. Why any hardware still has a Phillips head on it makes no sense to me.

DesertFox4
01-02-2019, 10:30 AM
You can run the approriate sized thread tap into a nut plate part way to relieve some of the “grip” strength if the part being held doesn’t need all the holding power of a prestine nut plate.

jrevens
01-02-2019, 11:57 AM
Joe,

The rivet you are holding doesn’t look like it is a “flush head” in the picture. Flush head rivets have a definite formed taper on the mating surface of the head, whether pulled or solid driven rivets. Pulled (“pop”) rivets generally have a 120 deg. head, while the solid AN rivets are 100 deg. Use the correct countersink or dimple dies accordingly. It’s hard to see on your picture, but it appears like that may be a flush head rivet on the surface behind your hand. Use the correct rivets. It’s not unheard of for kits to occasionally have some parts mislabeled.

Like Steve said, sometimes running a tap part way into an all-metal lightweight nut-plate is helpful, especially for the smaller (6-32 & 8-32) sizes.

Josh - one of the reasons Phillips head screws are used many times is because they eliminate, or at least minimize the possibility of the screwdriver slipping off the fastener and marring a nice finish. Of course, there are “button heads” using an Allen wrench, torx, and others also. There are several common different designs of cross slotted (“phillips”) screw heads. The key is to use the correct driver, and it’s sometimes a little difficult to identify what that is.

JoeRuscito
01-02-2019, 12:17 PM
That is what I suspected. The one in the background I pulled from another bag for comparison.

jiott
01-02-2019, 01:04 PM
I also found the nutplates too tight for my liking. An easier way to loosen them up without using a tap is just squeeze them carefully with vice-grips, just a little at a time until a fresh screw goes in without stripping the head but still has plenty of holding friction. Quick and easy.

efwd
01-02-2019, 03:38 PM
Good eyes still John. I thought the one in the background was a flush rivet and considered the photo didn't reveal that on the one in hand.

JoeRuscito
01-03-2019, 07:48 PM
I’m ready to install stringers and lower stringer. Is there any reason not to install tail wheel and/or main gear early instead of building a fuselage stand?

Shadowrider
01-03-2019, 07:51 PM
Seems like they would be in the way for covering. I know your doing poly fiber but for Oratex they would of been in the way. I am also glad I left off the butt ribs so I could set the fuselage upside down and on its side and not worry about damaging them. Also no gear keeps it lighter.

aviator79
01-03-2019, 07:56 PM
You will want to be able to rotate the fuselage for covering and paint. You could put the gear on, but you'll have to take them back off to cover. Better to just build the stand now.

JoeRuscito
01-03-2019, 08:19 PM
I assumed I’d have to take it back off to cover but I was under the impression I needed to fit it all before covering anyway. If that’s not the case then I’ll build the stand. Was trying to kill two birds as they say.

JoeRuscito
01-07-2019, 02:48 PM
Any suggestions? Got in this far. Can’t get it in anymore, or out. Safe to file down the part that extends too far?

Esser
01-07-2019, 02:57 PM
Yeah that Loctite 680 is tough stuff! I once had a bolt on another project that had a sloppy fit so I use that. I was unbelievable how hard I had to work with heat and big hammers to get the bolt out.. long story short you have three options.

You can either drill it out and get another bearing put in there. Might be tough as your drill will have a hard time fitting against the stab. You would probably need a really long bolt.

You could file the one side and fab up a small piece to make up the difference to put in the other side.

Or you could file it and call it a day. Some guys are perfectionists and would say drill it out etc. Personally with how little is showing, I would feel comfortable with filing it and installing it as is. There are 5 more bushing that take the relatively low load. When in doubt, call the factory.

Esser
01-07-2019, 02:58 PM
Not sure if it helps but when I did this step I made sure the bearing slipped in relatively easily(friction fit but not tons of force) and then I had a "C" clamp ready. As soon as that 680 was on the bushing I tightened the C clamp to get it in quickly

aviator79
01-07-2019, 03:02 PM
Also helps to cold-soak the bushing in your freezer and heat the elevator with a heat gun before driving them in.

Also, if you sanded the bearings down to fit those bushings before you installed them, you'll find that installing the bushings compresses them, and you'll need to sand the bearings some more. Ask me how I know! :rolleyes:

JoeRuscito
01-07-2019, 03:02 PM
Thanks Josh, after that first one I was a bit more agressive with the presanding. Even with a c clamp it wasn’t moving! Got the rest of them in. I’ll give the factory a call just Incase but I think I’ll end up filing.

jiott
01-07-2019, 05:41 PM
A caution about filing it down: The bearing that slips inside of this bushing must stick out a little on both sides so that when you install the elevator the two welded on tabs slip over the bearing and the bolt must tightly clamp the two tabs to the bearing without clamping to the bushing. So when you rotate the elevator the bushing does not move, but the bearing rotates inside the bushing. I think you will be OK filing it down, but just be sure the mechanism works as it should.

Shadowrider
01-07-2019, 07:59 PM
Call the factory and get a new brass bushing coming. (Bearing) heat up the elevator but don’t damage powder coating. Take a socket that will fit easily in and hit it and knock it out. Start over and sand brass bushing so it will slide in easy. Then apply locktight and install. We had to do this on one of ours planes.

David47
01-07-2019, 10:28 PM
Jim's nailed it correctly. To add to that, the plane bearing through which the bolt goes is made from a softer material than the interference fit outer bush and you need a "running" fit between the inner and outer. If your bolt is rotating when you move the elevator up and down, then the joint isn't working as designed. Furthermore, and more importantly, you are rotating the bolt in the HS mounted tabs which over time will cause wear in the tab bolt holes, which can then lead to sloppiness in your elevator control system.... not something you want happening.

JoeRuscito
01-08-2019, 04:32 AM
Thanks all for the input. I filled it down for fitting, but I did talk to Brandon and replacing it is suggested so I will get one on order and replace it when it arrives.

Got the tail all fitted up and varnished except for the rudder and bulkhead. Pretty exciting to put it all together for the first time.

a few things:

My elevator is pretty tight. It doesn't fall under its own weight. All of my bearing bushings are a nice smooth fit, but I suspect that the powder coat on the side of the bushing mounts and the tabs are causing some friction and the taps not being exactly square to the axis. Will this loosen up as the powder coat wears? Should I clean it off?

I had to grind some of the weld on the center horizontal mounting bushing, that connects to the fuselage, to make it square with the sides, so it could be installed. I want to be over cautious here and check because there are only 3 points holding the horizontal! It was minimal but what to check its ok.

Shadowrider
01-08-2019, 07:10 AM
Post some pictures, that will help tell what your talking about. It should not be binding at all. I would guess you need more sandind on bearings? How does it feel with the bolts in and no nuts on the hinges?

aviator79
01-08-2019, 08:25 AM
It should move freely. Figure it out now; it will be time well spent.

jiott
01-08-2019, 10:39 AM
Joe, if you are rotating powdercoated tabs against powdercoated bushing mounts, then something is wrong. The bearing (brass piece) inside the steel bushing should be the only moving surfaces when the joint is bolted up to torque spec.

aviator79
01-08-2019, 10:52 AM
IIRC, It's a steel bearing inside a brass bushing. Otherwise, Jim dis exactly correct. The ears on the elevator should only touch the bearings - nothing else.

JoeRuscito
01-08-2019, 12:15 PM
I only have the bolts in and its this tight. The bearing inside the bushing does protrude from both sides. I cant imagine it will get looser if I put the bolts on, but maybe that acts to square up the tabs and prevent rubbing?

Shadowrider
01-08-2019, 01:44 PM
Some of my tabs where bent so they where rubbing against the powder coating. Had to take a rubber mallet and slightly bend them square/perpendicular to the tube. Just make sure you have it on the correct way and not upside down? The control linkage attach point should pointing down?

JoeRuscito
01-14-2019, 06:08 AM
Its been a bit since Ive had a chance to get on here and post an update. Ive been using every moment to work on the plane! Progress in the last week:

-Got the elevator smooth, thanks for all the tips and help, it took some bending of the taps and a bit of weld grinding where the welds encroached on the adjacent tab (see red arrow), I had two welds that had to be cut back, one on the center attachment and one on the right ride of the elevator.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6368

-Rudder cables in, except I was a bit short on cable so I have one more copilot cable to run.

-side stringers are installed, center one is cut, drilled and ready.

-Pedals are installed over varnished floorboards.

-Lift strut brackets on both wings are riveted and hysoled
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6367
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6366

-Wing attach reinforcements are complete on one wing, just need to be hysoled on the second
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6369

-and lastly (that I can remember) the tip balsa blocks are in place, they also have been super filled in the gaps, ready to be sanded back.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=529&pictureid=6365

-trim actuator is in and wire is run

I think I will get the wings put on this week and start working on the #1 rib and butt rib attachments. Excited to be working on the wings!

JoeRuscito
01-14-2019, 06:17 PM
Quick question, the manual says to install rib #1 and let it cure with wing on the plane overnight. My garage will only allow for one wing to be installed at a time. Is it ok to install one at a time? My concern is that there will be some asymmetric frame twisting with only one wing installed that would cause the rib to set up in a non-normal position. Probably over thinking it but wanted to check.

Esser
01-14-2019, 06:47 PM
I think lots of people have done it that way Joe

jiott
01-14-2019, 10:57 PM
Just support the wingtip to take most of the weight off.

JoeRuscito
01-15-2019, 04:31 AM
Thanks Josh and Jim. Got one wing installed last night. Had to do some major rearranging to make it happen.

JoeRuscito
01-19-2019, 11:25 AM
After installing my lift strut brackets and riveting in place I am rechecking wing sweep and I’m getting a 3/4 inch measurement at the wing root. Is this acceptable? If I adjust the lift strut rod ends won’t that bind the wing connection bolts and pin?

jrevens
01-19-2019, 12:20 PM
Joe,

Do you mean “...rechecking wing dihedral”?

JoeRuscito
01-19-2019, 05:04 PM
No I mean sweep, I have 3/4 in between a line stretched from wing tip to wing tip supported by a 1 in block and the wing root. The manual calls for 1 in. It seems I have slightly aft sweep.

Meyer
01-19-2019, 05:39 PM
What engine are you using?

JoeRuscito
01-19-2019, 06:33 PM
I’m planning for the 912is

Brandon Petersen
01-19-2019, 10:33 PM
Hi Joe! Since I rigged it... Let me ask a couple questions.😉. Where are you getting the 3/4? Got any pics? Do you still only have one wing installed? Is the #1 rib in place?

Sweep is only affected by the location of the holes drilled in the spars at the root of the Wing. The brackets/ rod ends are going to change dihedral and washout.

Brandon

JoeRuscito
01-20-2019, 04:58 AM
Hey Brandon! I’ve attched pictures of each side. #1 rib is installed on both wings and both wings are installed when I took these measurements, the airframe was leveled using a 48 inch level front to back on the tubes above the cockpit and left to right on the #1 ribs as well as behind the cockpit. I have 1” block taped just inbound of the most outbound rib on each wing and the string is taped the the front of that block. For the sake of giving you more information. The measurement from my center rudder bolt to the 120” mark on my left wing is slightly over 1/4” in longer than the same measurement in the right wing. My dihedral is within 1/16 and my washout is 1/2” in on the right wing. And about 1/16-1/8 less than 1/2” on the left wing. Thanks!2137421375

Brandon Petersen
01-20-2019, 01:32 PM
Thanks Joe. Give me a call at the factory tomorrow and we can discuss a few things.
Thanks!
Brandon

JoeRuscito
01-22-2019, 11:02 AM
Alright! Rigging is ok’ed...got the bubble doors trimmed and drilled, just waiting for latches and then paint. Jury struts are fit and ready to be positioned (once it warms up outside). Also been working on finishing my balsa tips, but I don’t have pictures. Tanks are also fit and going in this week.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/0aad236f4b855fe97791a78a7de471f2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/987a40e5d6fb05e87938ebe67a04db6e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/86c4cc67c5e31876580787ac40e8a6c7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/fbf84f12bbb9a65254fe0dbbf79b303d.jpg
It’s fun to see it out in the backyard with the wings unfolded. We have been in and out of the garage a bunch lately with help from my girlfriend Devon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kitfoxrk
01-22-2019, 12:41 PM
Alright! Rigging is ok’ed...

Hi Joe,

Can you provide some insight of your conversation with Brandon, and what adjustments you needed to make (if any) to your rigging?

Your build is looking really nice!

thanks
Bob Krause

JoeRuscito
01-22-2019, 12:54 PM
Hey Bob, Brandon and I reviewed how I was checking my rigging to make sure I hadn’t done something incorrectly which I had not. He then explained that adjustments to the lift strut rod ends would not change sweep and only change dihedral and washout, which were within the correct range already. He had calculated the sweep value based on my measurements and determined that I effectively have under a 10th of a percent sweep to the rear of the aircraft. He assured me this will not cause any handling issues and that I likely would not be able to notice the difference even flying aircraft back to back that had been rigged exactly by the book and like my own is rigged. So no adjustments were needed at this time.

As always I really appreciate the prompt way Brandon and Kitfox as a whole addressed my concerns.

kitfoxrk
01-22-2019, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the response Joe. It's good to know that minor deviations in the measurements are not a reason for concern.

Bob

JoeRuscito
01-23-2019, 07:14 AM
Ok, time for my morning onslaught of questions! About to commence cleaning my tanks but I noticed that one tank has a bit of a rock and doesn’t sit quite flush with the #3 cap strip. Also I noticed that on the other side the rivets won’t allow it to sit flat on the spar. Should I be making indents for the rivets and also what do I do about the tank not sitting flush with the cap strip. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190123/df254b8e8dda29daa41c0a83d0112871.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190123/10205b3a6b74d59c6fdad7015393a801.jpg

Also for sloshing the tanks is there a reason to only use 3M green tape or can I use another more common tape?

Floog
01-23-2019, 07:50 AM
I had the same situation with my tanks, Joe. Relieve (sand) the corner flanges as required to get the tank to sit flush with the cap strips. There's plenty of meat in that area. One of my tanks fit pretty flush but the other was high on 2 corners.

Esser
01-23-2019, 08:12 AM
For sloshing I used other tape.

You can file that flange on the tank down to get it to sit flush. Obviously be careful and don’t leave any stress risers. Once your tanks are in and you still have a bit of unevenness, you can fair it with hysol.

aviator79
01-23-2019, 08:31 AM
Brandon always makes a point of telling people to pressure test after any filing or shaping of the tanks.

JoeRuscito
01-23-2019, 08:59 AM
Yea thats why I want to get this all done first!

JoeRuscito
01-24-2019, 07:00 PM
Still working on getting my tanks to sit flush and installing my jury struts. Im waiting on a good day to get it outside and unfold the wings. In the meantime Ive been thinking about paint and epoxy primer for the spars and other metal parts. I don't think my kit came with any primer, so how much do I need to do the spars, stringers, and assorted uncovered metal?

Also in the realm of painting/spraying I know NOTHING! Any and all advice is welcomed. Id like to start getting my setup ready so I can do things like paint the cockpit black before I cover and paint any unprotected metal as I go.

Thanks as always!

aviator79
01-25-2019, 07:45 AM
If I recall correctly, I ordered a quart of primer which wasn't enough. Then I ordered an additional gallon, and have probably only used about a quarter or a third of it. I would think a gallon should get you through the project pretty easily.

There are strong opinions about painting equipment. I did all of mine with a Harbor Frieght "professional" $60 HVLP spray gun. I know others have used their $15 spray gun with surprisingly good results. This is actually the gun that they used when I took Gary Hillman's EAA covering workshop. I also had a Harbor Frieght compressor that went Tango Uniform half way through spraying a color coat. So I spent a little more money on a 15 gallon 200 psi 5.4 CFM oil-free compressor, and it's worked well for the rest of the project. I think some will tell you this is totally inadequate, but for this project, I can tell you it worked for me. My paint has some flaws, but they definitely have nothing to do with my equipment. If you can take a covering class, you'll at least get to try your hand at spraying and see good/bad examples.

Also - take PPE seriously. All these chemicals, and especially catalyzed polyurethane paints can do some real damage to you. I used a quality, full face cartridge respirator with P100 particulate/organic vapor combo cartridges. You will read in the Poly Fiber manual, and hear from internet experts that an Air Purifying Respirator (APR) is totally insufficient and that you must use a supplied-air respirator. If you look into it, this isn't actually true. I won't go into a lengthy discussion of why I chose an APR instead of supplied air, but this (http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/219170O/osha-clarifies-resp-selection-for-diisocyanates.pdf?&2lxM6EVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--) might be worth a read. I work in a very safety conscious, hyper-regulated environment and I take my own health and safety very seriously. There's nothing wrong with using supplied air, but it's also not necessary if you use an APR correctly and change your cartridges very conservatively.

jiott
01-25-2019, 11:56 AM
I used 1 qt. of epoxy primer but needed just a little more. I brushed it on rather than spray, so it takes less that way. I primed the spars inside and out, and all bare metal.

Ronin
01-25-2019, 01:55 PM
If I recall correctly, I ordered a quart of primer which wasn't enough... Having painted cars for 15 years I'd say that a full-face SA system is mandatory. Charcoal filters do nothing for poly-isocyanate fumes. You are also taking it in thru your skin and the worst entry point is your eyes. If you do use a charcoal respirator but leave it out, it continues to "purify" the air so make sure to keep it in an airtight container. Washing your hands or arms off with any kind of thinners or reducers is also very bad.

You might get away with it for a long time but once your isocyanate "cup is full" your done, you won't be able to come near any of these products again. I've seen it in person and it's not pretty. One guy I worked with that developed a sensitivity to isocyanates had to quit the business. Had been a bodyman/painter for 25+ years. We met him for lunch one day several months after, and he had an asthmatic type attack in the restaurant just from the smell on my clothes, and I always wore a full paint suit!

aviator79
01-25-2019, 02:15 PM
I agree that you need PPE beyond respiratory protection. Full coveralls with hood, and gloves. Don't come into contact with the paint, especially when it's a mist.

However, it's not accurate that charcoal filters are ineffective against polyisocyanates. Read the article I linked to above. OSHA and NIOSH both consider Air Purifying Respirators effective against Polyisocyantes if a cartridge change schedule is used. The article even points out that charcoal cartridges actually remain effective against isocyanates for a relatively long time. OSHA's previous "supplied air only" policy was not based on the effectiveness of filters, but on the supposedly poor warning properties, i.e. by the time you smell them, you're above the exposure limit.

Again, if supplied air makes you feel comfortable, go for it. Just know that there is a lot of incorrect or outdated information about APRs and isocyanates. Choosing an APR is not taking a gamble with your life and health, if you use it correctly. Any respirator must fit correctly, be stored correctly, and be used correctly. You must perform at least a negative pressure check every time you put it on.

Ronin
01-25-2019, 04:31 PM
The main problem being that most people don't fit the mask (simply don't know how to) properly, don't take proper care of it and don't adhere to a proper filter changing schedule. Hanging the respirator on a nail in the shop until the next time you paint is not going to cut it. If you bought the mask three months ago (even less actually) and it's been out in the air (even just sitting) the charcoal cartridges are done. If you have any facial hair you have leaks unless using a full-face FA mask. I just don't think it's worth it. Maybe OSHA did relax the regs and maybe they got a couple million dollar donation from 3M?

After Bone's the coworker got sick the owner of the shop brought in a chemical poisoning Dr. to go over our safety processes. The crap I learned & saw over those two days scared the shizit out of me, and I've worn a FA respirator since day one! Hell I even wore a charcoal respirator when mixing paint and the mixing room had an exhaust fan.

I can say this nobody made fun of my "full suit, head sock, gloves and FA system" any more after that.

And your "Any respirator must fit correctly, be stored correctly, and be used correctly.
You must perform at least a negative pressure check every time you put it on." is spot on.

I also agree that folks should just use something and make sure it's working correctly, you only get one set of lungs.

JoeRuscito
01-28-2019, 09:06 AM
hey guys thanks for the thoughtful responses the week got away from me (thankfully do to building!). I must say Im a bit daunted by aerothane and the like even though I will likely end up going that route (with an air system) if I think it's within my spraying ability. I'm signed up for the Polyfiber course in two weeks near ATL which I hope will educate me more on the painting process as well.


I had my EAA tech counselor Jim Wilson out this weekend and we talked alot about painting and we also got a chance to look order my build (he is the first qualified set of eyes to see it in person). I feel super lucky to have such a experienced and great person to advise me and look over my build. Jim approved of all my work so far! Really makes me feel much better, it's easy for me to continuously second guess my work with no previous experience or anything to compare it to in person.

I was holding for good weather to finish up the jury struts and get the tanks installed and as of last night both are complete. It took about 10 sloshes for each tank till I was happy with the lack of debris. I found that I would slosh and get a clear strainer, then would do one more for good measure and find big pieces of fiberglass, undoubtedly do to the last slosh maneuver, there are tons of places for things to get hung up in these tanks and Im positive no matter how many times one sloshes there is probably something still hung up in there in one of the corners. I also did some work on the wing tip mounting strips, got my balsa ends mostly contoured (still need to be covered in hysol), varnished the butt ribs, rudder, and inside ribs one and 3 prior to tank install. I also got around to working on my paint scheme. Open to feedback, this is just my first go, but I do like it! The wings would be one or the other pattern not both, just trying out ideas on one template. I'm certainly not a designer but I wanted something simple to paint, didn't need too many colors, had some white incorporated to blend with current white powder coated items, some black to blend with soon to be black cockpit tubes and interior, third color open to changes. I really would love your thoughts/ideas.
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aviator79
01-28-2019, 09:47 AM
To me, one of the unfortunate things about the Kitfox when coming up with a paint scheme, is that the natural line down the fuselage stringer does not meet with a good natural line forward of the door. I think that if you do a primary color above the line, and a secondary color below, too much of your cowl ends up in the secondary color, and the line seems like it's in an arbitrary location vertically. A lot of people paint them this way, and it doesn't look bad at all, but to my eye it looks not quite balanced somehow. The lighting bolt on my airplane does two things for me:

-Pays homage to Supercub N4101E, my first true love in aviation, which was traditional cub yellow with a black lightning bolt.
-Realigns the sight line with the bottom of the door and gives me more of my primary color on the cowls.

After that discussion of natural lines, I like the slanted version of your wing paint better, even though it follows no natural line on the plane. Go figure. :rolleyes: Crossing your scheme across the gap to your flaperons will take some careful planning to get correct alignnment, but 99% of the people who see your plane won't notice if the lines aren't perfectly continuous from wing to flaperon, especially since there is only one angle where they will align visually.

Obviously paint scheme is completely a matter of personal preference, but I just thought I'd throw stuff out there as food for thought.

JoeRuscito
01-28-2019, 10:31 AM
Brian I really appreciate your thoughts. I think the point you made above is why the kitfox factory paint scheme dips and curves below the prop. That being said I kind of like the clean white look so maybe the cowl being mostly white wouldn't bother me. What will bother me is how dirty it will inevitably get, but maybe that will make me clean the plane more (read: take better care of her).

bbs428
01-28-2019, 11:10 AM
Wow! your really moving forward quickly. Nice work. I wish the weather here would give me a
nice window to get my wing position set. Hopefully soon!

My 2c worth...

I like the slanted tips as well. I would go with a slant up toward the vertical tail tip with
the black stripe so your primary color can carry on to the tail and be on a slant at the vertical tail tip as the rest.

Pardon my crude drawing... lol :p

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aviator79
01-28-2019, 03:59 PM
What will bother me is how dirty it will inevitably get, but maybe that will make me clean the plane more (read: take better care of her).

That's actually why I went with Grey. However, white is really good for helping to identify problems early. Anything out of the ordinary(oil, fuel, exhaust) shows up well.

rtc183
01-28-2019, 05:15 PM
Kind of like this?

PapuaPilot
01-28-2019, 10:27 PM
Here's my paint scheme. It's similar with some curve at the nose and tail. I didn't do the blue strip yet.

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JoeRuscito
01-31-2019, 06:32 PM
Thanks for all the paint scheme suggestions! I still have some thinking to do! Phil its really nice to see your drawing and then what it turned out like! Looks great!


If you primed your spars did you prime before or after installing the leading edge extrusion?

Also what does everyone paint their fuel sight backer plate with? I assume white, would the white primer paint look ok/do the job?

And lastly, any suggestions for black paint for the cockpit tubing, I have a small spray gun I plan on doing it with? Hopefully cut my paint spraying teeth on the tubing where I imagine its not as noticeable if I screw up. I don't think I want to go full flat to prevent scratching but maybe a semigloss?


... ah one more. Can the flaperons be put on two saw horses? Or do they need to be supported in the middle? Not sure how longitudinally stiff these things are.

aviator79
01-31-2019, 07:14 PM
If you primed your spars did you prime before or after installing the leading edge extrusion?

Also what does everyone paint their fuel sight backer plate with? I assume white, would the white primer paint look ok/do the job?
.

Prime the spars before Installing the leading edge.

I assume you have the fuel placards from Kitfox. They are white stickers that cover the sight gauge backing plates. I primed mine, but if you use the placard kit, you'll cover whatever you paint them with.

I did flat black and really prefer the look. Semigloss would be more durable.

The flaperons can be supported in two places for a short amount of time, but they are pretty delicate. If you accidentally lean on one that's only supported in two places, it might be done for. I used four saw horses with plywood on top, and some moving blankets.

PapuaPilot
01-31-2019, 09:00 PM
If you want to lift the ailerons you need to keep the chord vertical. Don't lift them with them in the horizontal position unless you are grabbing it with both hands spread so it splits the load in thirds

JoeRuscito
01-31-2019, 09:00 PM
Brian thanks! Super helpful as always! Sounds like Im priming tomorrow! I have a handful of stuff at this point so its good timing. Any tips on spraying poly fiber primer? or should simply brush?

Also drilled the rivet holes in trailing edge of flaperon, what's the convention for head vs shop side of the rivet up or down. I guess you will see both regardless... I may just have to order solid ones...

PapuaPilot
01-31-2019, 09:03 PM
For my flaperons I used solid rivets and have the shop head up.

JoeRuscito
02-06-2019, 04:41 PM
When swaging the pilot and copilot rudder cables together what position should the adjustable pedal lever be in vs the pedals themselves. It would seem since the position of the swage is fixed 62-63” that you would want the pedals and levers to correspond to the same poison as to not move the swage forward or aft later. And without the firewall I cannot know the forward most or aft most position of the pedals.

jiott
02-06-2019, 05:49 PM
I positioned the pedals in neutral, even, straight across. The lever position I don't think matters much, maybe in a mid position. The main thing is you want to make sure the swage joints do not interfere with anything (cable guide tubes, etc.) thru their full range of travel in any pedal or lever position. I believe that 62"-63" puts them in a place where nothing is very close.

aviator79
02-06-2019, 07:05 PM
The manual says to put the levers in the middle position. Mostly, they need to be in the same position. The actual fore/aft positions will be set when you swage the aft cable eyes. You really need the firewall on for that. Make sure you are following the cable installation instructions in the adjustable pedal Appendix.

aviator79
02-06-2019, 07:14 PM
It's probably obvious, but a 1x4 or a level through the fuselage behind all 4 pedals will keep them aligned while you swage.

JoeRuscito
02-09-2019, 01:46 PM
Still a bit apprehensive about swaging these cables. By the book 62-63 inches put the swage a right on top of this cross beam (see picture) it would seem to me that if it was to hook on something when using The rudder this would be a good spot to hook the cables.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/3f6e45a55c1a5ee43028484ad90d2e57.jpg

aviator79
02-09-2019, 02:24 PM
Mine ended up a couple inches forward from there. When there is tension in them, they won't catch that tube.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HGrtf3q9bPvBJg5ED1P5f0Sxi5LlkQxh0EUVU6pfOVBXDhtT37 9hXzwkwL_yd5qwv9wwMSg8hXIRc-StpzPRgpXyxSrWlMtlz45s92fToCuRk5FImIFTMUkDjAjFY1sg FiKD5PDMwCc=w500

PapuaPilot
02-09-2019, 04:57 PM
Rudder cable tension is provided by the 2 or 4 springs that hook up at the pulleys under the center console.


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JoeRuscito
02-09-2019, 05:18 PM
Thanks Yes I have the springs in place. I went ahead and did it. And it came out fine. I was likely overthinking it and I understand that spring tension will keep them away from catching... but it is possible given their position so I wanted to make sure.

Thanks for all the help as always!

I got my flaperons installed today and the control horns clecoed. This was a pretty exciting step for me. Finally also have my last coat of hysol on the balsa tips!

I’ll start the wing ends tonight. I think I’m getting close to having the wings structurally complete. Poly fiber class in ATL next weekend.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/1fd033daa403a15539e97b760b6985da.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/2236fd16e99657fea68724cb7015e4ec.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/d8fd89ffd7decd85ca6c6fd3b7a01fee.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/01685abc26421205f04a67edf29ecd54.jpg

JoeRuscito
02-09-2019, 08:34 PM
Looking forward a bit in the manual to do some planning... is it advisable to do all control rigging, (elevator, rudder, and flaperons) prior to covering any surface? It seems like a lot of builds the tail is done before cover so I’m wondering if the flaps should be done before covering the wings.

efwd
02-09-2019, 08:48 PM
I didn't do the rigging of the flapperons until nearly last thing. I fealt that I needed the fabric in place and then the flapperon hangers fixed permanently for the rigging to be done.

PapuaPilot
02-09-2019, 10:34 PM
I rigged the aileron and flaps all the way to the flaperon mixer before covering. If I remember right there are angles you are able to set on the mixer. This only left connecting the vertical pushrods to the flaperons, setting neutral and checking travels when I installed the flaperons.

JoeRuscito
02-11-2019, 06:37 AM
I was thinking the same but I imagine a full house of clecos would be enough but I think I’ll just wait and rig the mixer only.

JoeRuscito
02-11-2019, 06:41 AM
Wing tips are trimmed and flaperon ends shaped and hysoled. My scribe lines were definitely off so I scribed my own. I fit them on the wings and positioned them until I was happy with the position then used this leather tool to scribe a line referenced to the inside edge of the cap strip. Super easy. Highly suggest picking one of these up if you’re working on your wing tips.

I did find one bubble in the fiberglass that I will need to fill with super-fill.

Oh and I dropped in the header tank.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190211/a105721cfdb162beeb0ebee4e4f77f73.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190211/96d234cad8863b8da13154a70a2d0b98.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190211/73a99dd5194b89c0182443fda31046c6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190211/922c52933ad328bbfce65f45e555cf8e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190211/2ba190de97881cd623089828ed66c5b4.jpg

JoeRuscito
02-19-2019, 06:16 AM
I went to a polyfiber course this last weekend. I feel like Im ready to cover. Really great class. That being said I haven't gotten too much done. Last night I got one wing primed and ready for the leading edge install. Ill paint the next wing when the weather improves. My first time spraying anything. It was actually kinda nice, I enjoyed it, room for improvement though for sure!

Been working on paint designs as well. I really like the Bahama Blue color. Feedback as always is welcomed. Brian, I took some inspiration from your scheme just removed the lightning bolt and followed the door jam.

Brakes and sticks are in. Control feel is nice with the added leverage, almost no appreciable friction.

21690216912169221693

efwd
02-19-2019, 09:12 AM
my 2 cents, I like 3 and 5.

aviator79
02-21-2019, 04:31 AM
My vote would go to 3/7.

JoeRuscito
02-21-2019, 05:18 AM
Well, yall picked out my favorites. Still iterating a bit.

In the meantime Ive been working on finishing up my wings. One wing is primed and has the leading edge installed. Still waiting on weather for the second. Also got my GMU11 plate installed. I decided to place it in the first bay in the right wing on the inbound rib. I can reach it with the wingtips off and it should be compliant with Garmin recommendations (or as compliant as you can be in a Kitfox!). I figured placing it in the right wing would also even out the cable/tubing runs in the rear spar, with the pitot on the left wing. I plan to mount the unit but attach the connector after covering.

I also got started on my lift strut fairing. Ive decided not to go with the Al cuff. My thinking was that its kinda heavy and would still take quite a bit of superfill to look good. I was careful with the fit of the ends so when I do fill and smooth I think the weight will be minimal compared to the cuff. And I think it will look better. The only advantage I see to the cuff is that it may add some strength if someone accidentally trips/steps on the fairing! I still need to trim the trailing edge so it doesn't intrude on the fuselage fabric. I will plan to put a single rivet in the leading fairing's trailing edge to make sure it doesn't unzip.
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FoxTrotter
02-21-2019, 10:52 AM
I agree that you need PPE beyond respiratory protection. Full coveralls with hood, and gloves. Don't come into contact with the paint, especially when it's a mist.

However, it's not accurate that charcoal filters are ineffective against polyisocyanates. Read the article I linked to above. OSHA and NIOSH both consider Air Purifying Respirators effective against Polyisocyantes if a cartridge change schedule is used. The article even points out that charcoal cartridges actually remain effective against isocyanates for a relatively long time. OSHA's previous "supplied air only" policy was not based on the effectiveness of filters, but on the supposedly poor warning properties, i.e. by the time you smell them, you're above the exposure limit.

Again, if supplied air makes you feel comfortable, go for it. Just know that there is a lot of incorrect or outdated information about APRs and isocyanates. Choosing an APR is not taking a gamble with your life and health, if you use it correctly. Any respirator must fit correctly, be stored correctly, and be used correctly. You must perform at least a negative pressure check every time you put it on.

But there's no dispute that if you're using Poly-Tone (on fabric) and polyfiber enamel (on primed metal), then one only needs a charcoal-canister respirator, right?

And a related question -- does anyone who used Poly-Tone on the fabric just use the Poly-Tone on the metal also? With what result?

Thanks

Michael

FoxTrotter
02-21-2019, 11:25 AM
I went to a polyfiber course this last weekend. I feel like Im ready to cover. Really great class. That being said I haven't gotten too much done. Last night I got one wing primed and ready for the leading edge install. Ill paint the next wing when the weather improves. My first time spraying anything. It was actually kinda nice, I enjoyed it, room for improvement though for sure!

Been working on paint designs as well. I really like the Bahama Blue color. Feedback as always is welcomed. Brian, I took some inspiration from your scheme just removed the lightning bolt and followed the door jam.

I agree, 3&7.

Joe, we probably saw each other in ATL last week; I was in the electrical/avionics class. I did the cover class 3 weeks earlier with Lynn in Oshkosh (polar vortex!) I'm a few weeks behind you in build -- my weather in middle TN's been worse than yours, and my shop's unheated.

Have you decided Poly-Tone vs polyurethane? Going to build a spray booth? And finally -- what avionics are you installing, and have you decided locations for everything (including antennas, internal/external; ELT; etc)?

JoeRuscito
02-21-2019, 07:25 PM
Sorry we missed each other! It would have been great to meet! Im going with Ranthane because Ive heard its easier to spray and has all the same characteristics of the aerothane. For my paint booth I've bought a carport on amazon, fully enclosed. Going to add some plastic and vent fans and call it a paint booth. Ive also purchased a hobby air system.

avionics: Im going Garmin G3X. Ive mounted the magnetometer in the right wing on the 9th rib in the last bay. Thats as far as I've gotten but Im thinking everything else will be on the fuselage including the OAT.

JoeRuscito
02-21-2019, 07:27 PM
But there's no dispute that if you're using Poly-Tone (on fabric) and polyfiber enamel (on primed metal), then one only needs a charcoal-canister respirator, right?

And a related question -- does anyone who used Poly-Tone on the fabric just use the Poly-Tone on the metal also? With what result?

Thanks

Michael

From what Ive been told you are correct polytone/primer>regular respirator. I can't speak to polytone on metal but Ive read it doesn't perform as well as aerothane/ranthane.

Ronin
02-21-2019, 08:22 PM
does anyone who used Poly-Tone on the fabric just use the Poly-Tone on the metal also? With what result?

Michael

It will adhere just fine but you have to put it over a tacky coat of sealer. The Stits EP-420 Epoxy primer works fine. When it's (the EP-420) just past tacky put the Poly-Tone over it.

David47
02-22-2019, 03:52 AM
I've been advised by Polyfiber to do two coats of EP-420 over both metal or fibreglass - would also apply to Carbon I suspect as well.. The first coat you apply normally and let it cure/dry. For the second coat, you apply it and whilst still tacky, apply the first coat of your final colour. Apparently doing it this way allows the final coat to cure/dry with the tacky primer. They tell me this will work in most cases, assuming good surface prep. before applying the EP-420. I've done this on my main gear springs and so far so good.

efwd
02-22-2019, 11:55 AM
I used Poly-Tone on the fiberglass. I am not pleased with how easily it scratches. It has yet to be flown and I am already deciding Im likely to pay for a professional shop to paint my cowls and wing tips with a more durable paint around my first annual. I used Aero Graphics for the lettering on my cowl so they are available for purchase all over again with a simple phone call. I used the primer to cure, then tacky primer method as recommended. Paint is not flaking off, which is why they recommend that method but it is just far too easy to scratch. I couldn't be happier with the poly-tone on the fabric. My invasion stripes are the only thing I put on fabric. Hey, I didn't have to buy an expensive respirator and Im still alive after use of the charcoal filltered masks. Poly tone is easy to apply. I have never painted anything before and my application came out well. I also had to repair some spots and you can't tell. I will be repairing scratches on the cowl as well as a pit that showed up after paint. I am very confident you won't be able to tell I did the touch ups. That's a plus for Poly-tone.

FoxTrotter
02-22-2019, 01:06 PM
Thanks, Eddie. What paint gear did you use?
- Michael

airlina
02-22-2019, 02:45 PM
When I painted my Series 5 many years ago, I tried the recommended spray polytone over tacky primer on hard surfaces. two problems I encountered were the procedure is a pain in the butt , because you are shooting two different paints in close succession and you either need two paints rigs or better be quick and cleaning your gun for the next coat. second , like Eddie says I found the polytone not durable on hard surfaces and I figured it would never stand the test of time. My solution was to head to the local auto paint store and they did a great job of matching my Polytone colors with their enamel (Dupont Centari was the product I used) and this is what I used on my cowl., doors ,gear etc. I can't tell the difference in color between the two paints and after 16 years , I know I did the right thing because it has held up well. I did have to flatten the sheen on the enamel a bit to match the polytone but that was easy with the flattener mixed into the enamel. Bruce N199CL

efwd
02-22-2019, 03:40 PM
I bought the twin pack (larger gun and smaller detail gun) that Harbor Freight sells. Used a desicant filter in line and I used a small pressure regulator at the gun. The Poly-tone is so forgiving I might have been able to spray it from a discarded windex spray bottle. Kidding of course.

FoxTrotter
02-22-2019, 03:59 PM
Air source?

efwd
02-22-2019, 04:12 PM
nearly 20 year old lightly used Craftsman oiless compressor. I believe mine is a 20gal maybe 25. No problem at all with it. If you have to do large swaths many times over as when you paint a wing, some might say you need a larger compressor.

Meyer
02-22-2019, 08:52 PM
Following along as I just started two weeks ago. I am going with the G3X also. Where are your antennas going?

Thanks

Scott

bbs428
02-22-2019, 10:29 PM
Dang Joe you really get with it when it comes to building! Love your thread.

I'm getting my paint booth together as well in a few months. I'll be using an auto
urethane with a flex agent. I have a friend who has a paint shop.
He keeps me squared away so I don't screw up to badly!
My harbor freight shooters have done a remarkable job on other projects but I
might have to upgrade to a better gun for the plane. Maybe this one -
a Devibiss Finishline 4 FLG-670. $205.00 on Amazon Any thoughts??

21736

I'm going with a G3X as well. Looking to buy the lions share at Oshkosh this year
and take advantage of any deals or discounts they have to offer. :D

All the best on your build!

David47
02-23-2019, 04:04 PM
When I painted my Series 5 many years ago, I tried the recommended spray polytone over tacky primer on hard surfaces. two problems I encountered were the procedure is a pain...Bruce N199CL

Hmm, I'm gonna reconsider using the Polyfiber method for spraying metal and fibreglass. Too much effort goes into this without having to worry about durability all the time.

JoeRuscito
02-24-2019, 06:08 PM
Following along as I just started two weeks ago. I am going with the G3X also. Where are your antennas going?

Thanks

Scott

Still figuring out my antennas and really my system as a whole so far here is what I have, if anyone seems something I'm missing or has any feedback as always its appreciated.

G3X 10.6 landscape GDU (screen)

GDU install kit (screen)

EIS interface box GEA24

GEA24 connector kit

Rotax sensor kit

Magneto/hall effect

Fuel flow ft60

GTX45R transponder in/out

GPS20A ads Waas (Ive gotten mixed info on if this is needed, Garmin said no but I talked with Nikk and he referred me to the manual which states you do to be legal when using the GTX45r)

GPS20a install kit

ga56 GPS ANT or Ga-35 gps antenna
CL105 transponder ant or TED XPDR transponder ant

GTR20 remote com radio

GMA-245R remote audio panel

Ra miller 10 com ant

GA-26c internal GPS

Vertical power sport

vertical power connector kit

ACK e-04 ELT

Then down the road I may add a G5 for redundancy and possibly autopilot and a second com!

JoeRuscito
02-24-2019, 06:13 PM
Dang Joe you really get with it when it comes to building! Love your thread...

Thanks man! Trying to keep up the momentum! Thats exactly the gun I got. I also have a small gun Jim, my EAA tech, gifted to me for the small stuff. My "paint booth" arrives tomorrow. Im wondering how long it takes to build a car port?!

aviator79
02-24-2019, 06:56 PM
One thing about transponder antennae that I learned the hard way: Don't locate it near an autopilot servo. At least with the Dynon servos, the transponder signal will kick the servo offline. Fortunately, it was easy enough to switch the antennae between the transponder and ADS-B receiver.

efwd
02-25-2019, 06:59 AM
Hmm. That is interesting Brian. I suppose I won't figure that problem out until several flights in when I test the auto pilot.
Regarding the GTX45R, I haven't done the research but my GTX345 has a WAAS GPS and I thought the R version was the same radio without the control panel.
I could be wrong since the GTX345 is certified and the 45R I notice is designed for the experimental/LSA market. I would certainly get the answer before I spent the $.

JoeRuscito
02-25-2019, 07:08 AM
I think you are correct that from a hardware standpoint they are identical (at least from what I’m told) however the firmware limits the use of the internal gps. Hence the massive price difference!

Interested as to why you went with the certified version?

aviator79
02-25-2019, 07:24 AM
Hmm. That is interesting Brian. I suppose I won't figure that problem out until several flights in when I test the auto pilot.
Regarding the GTX45R, I haven't done the research but my GTX345 has a WAAS GPS...

In my case, my roll servo and my transponder antenna were both mounted to the left mounting plate on the belly, so the servo was only a couple inches from the antenna. I had tested the autopilot and everything worked fine. I was doing some additional testing later, and the roll servo kept going offline. It was because I had the avionics powered, and the transponder was active. Fortunately, a Dynon forum post clued me in to what was going on. I just swapped the XPDR/ADSB antenna cables behind the panel. It may not be an issue with Garmin servos, or if you have the servo more than a few inches from antenna.

PapuaPilot
02-25-2019, 10:13 AM
Joe,
Your list for the G3X looks good. From what I have read you will need the WAAS GPS-20A for the GTX-45 to work for ADSB out.

These are totally preference items:
I chose the panel mounted GTR-200 radio with the display and knobs. I like having the display and ability to tune, flip-flop frequencies and activate the "monitor" function without having to do it through the G3X display which can involve a lot of button pushing and take you away from other important stuff on the MFD. FYI the monitor function sort of makes it like a second radio, I use it to listen to AWOS without going off the primary frequency.

Also it looks like most of the functions of the GMA-245R are included in the new GTR-200B. You really don't need an audio panel unless you are going to have more than one COM.

JoeRuscito
02-25-2019, 06:25 PM
Thanks Phil, I agree the GTR-200B looks great and I was looking at that option as well. Not sure if I will want a second com but I do like the idea of having a separate panel for the com. I wonder how many go with two radios and how many are happy with just one. Everything Ive flown to date has had two.

aviator79
02-25-2019, 06:43 PM
For a VFR airplane, I don't perceive much value in a second radio, especially with modern radios that let you monitor the standby frequency, and pull frequencies direct from your map.

Just my $.02.

JoeRuscito
02-25-2019, 06:54 PM
Thanks Brian, Also it seems with the 200b you cannot use the touch screen to adjust at all... or maybe this too is misinformation.

efwd
02-25-2019, 09:07 PM
The answer to why I bought the GTX 345, simple, fewer electrical parts to install and I wanted ADSB in. And, be careful, you may run out of power pins on the Sport Vertical Power. Don't let me scare you though. there seems to be plenty of ways to get around that as well. You just may need to send power to a bus and run two devices off it for example. My 912iS can't be wired through it due to large Amps needed to power the start up. So, you might end up with some circuit breaker someplace you hadn't anticipated. I have.

JoeRuscito
02-27-2019, 06:35 AM
Hey Eddie, yea Ive been told you will need a couple breakers for the engine startup/ignition, Ill have to do a count of my planned circuits and see what I end up with.

JoeRuscito
02-27-2019, 07:02 AM
Set to cover! Jim came by last night and gave me to green light to cover my wings. Ill be doing some final smoothness checks and installing the magnetometer tonight, then cleaning the shop a bit before laying on the bottom fabric.

To that point the manual seems to go against "cover the top of a high wing first" concept. I know this is only for cosmetics but why is this? Also thoughts on polybrush on the capstrips, manual says yes, poly fiber no.

Here are some photos of my pitot line routing, and some of my tail wire runs. Ive been really enjoying rib lacing. Sorry for the super messy shop and quick photos, but I wanted to post them because seeing how others have done it was extraordinarily helpful to me. The runs are pretty tight so Im pretty sure I have ample roof for vibration and I dont think the lines will contact the rib cut out where I dont already have chafe protection, so I dont believe I need added tycoon tubing.
21791217922179321794217952179621797

Ive also finished my right side tail access cover. These were quite the tricky project and mine are certainly not perfect. I wish the screws were in a straighter line. One or two slipped while I was drilling with the long bit. Also, for anyone who is drilling the strips these attach to, make sure your holes are not centered on the Al. Mine are so the nut plates dont reach the holes.... Ill have to figure out a solution for this. How close should we trim edges of the cover? Should the bottom edge be tangent to the tubing or is my trimmed enough?
2179821799

I rigged my elevator and trim actuator, end stops, set my flaperon mixer angles, and flap handle push rod.

Baggage sack is in a drilled which helped me decide where to secure wire runs from the tail. Fuel sight gauges also primed and installed.
2180021801

Next update should include some covered wings!

aviator79
02-27-2019, 07:27 AM
Looking great Joe!

Plan for more circuits than you count up. I thought I was very thorough in counting my circuits, and still ended up adding a couple to my fuse block, which fortunately had several slots to spare.

Don't get too wrapped around the axle about top/bottom first. After finish tapes and 15 layers of PolyStuff, any cosmetic difference will be completely invisible to anyone but you. If you follow the PolyFiber instructions to the letter, you really can't go wrong. You will lace your ribs, so using any kind of adhesive (PolyBrush or PolyTak) is not necessary. It probably doesn't harm anything either if you're a belt & suspenders kind of guy.

On your pitot runs: I was advised not to use zip ties anywhere that will not be accessible. It might take 20 years, but eventually they will become brittle and break. I used about a half million of them in my fuselage, but I did not use them in the wings. Of course, My nimble body can access the whole fuselage today, but in 20 years, I too will probably become brittle and break. :rolleyes: You might consider being strategic about where you use them so that you'll be able to replace them through any inspection/access covers you put in.

Covering the wings was definitely one of my favorite parts of the build. You really feel like you're building a plane at that point. Enjoy!

JoeRuscito
02-27-2019, 07:36 AM
Thanks Brian. Agreed about the zip ties. I only used them where I know I will have an inspection port, right at the pitot tube. Otherwise, is there a better way to secure the tygon tubing to the Al pitot lines?

aviator79
02-27-2019, 08:25 AM
What came with the Dynon install kit is AN flare nuts, Male AN-to Male NPT fittings, and Female NPT to push-in tube fittings.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oU4mT5YatWIWdSiDv8PmKSg4KEtOb8MtVX3rX6wP3isx-zYsS6x5Har2Gi17R6cPeFc8bmZ42v7XrBf1S-tR1r0wSyWInZ9QwJu6IlfQU2PouWJUXPxu2TiL7YFasX7ze1Wb grQXUpk=w600

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2p6WHv2npCyqpXJVvW7Er3y0apTeWA1ey206G79Utl2rOI3Yu2 ch-BZNDt8pRvHICYvKaIKkydO1gyZlHhD_rZyPAxtT0sRuJ0hA0xW xauCORSeF5epZIZTNfC8dTVKmbPR60Xnct6k=w600

efwd
02-27-2019, 09:13 AM
As for the top or bottom of wing first, I don't know how you would accomplish putting the metal pieces at the lift strut brackets if you put the top on first.
You can use waxed string to secure stuff if you were a scout or Navy guy who can tie knots that won't come loose. I was neither. :confused:
Your access cover is about like mine. I used a edge bender to put a slight angle around the entire piece and it comes out flush against the fabric. Looks nice. Not necessary.

Esser
02-27-2019, 09:30 AM
I installed my plates like I did inspection rings. I bonded to the fabric and then covered with another piece of fabric. So you could do the top first

efwd
02-27-2019, 01:47 PM
Geeze, much easier than I thought. :D

rv9ralph
02-27-2019, 05:50 PM
Top is covered last because the required wrap around the leading edge. The top covering has more loads on it in flight trying to pull it away from the wing. The directions are based on the STC which proved the engineered strength of the process for Stits Poly Fiber covering.

Ralph

JoeRuscito
03-03-2019, 08:14 AM
Haven't made much progress since the last post. Turns out I had two cans of PolySpray in stock not PolyBrush, so wing covering has been put on hold.

I've been tidying up loose ends here and there, but my list of items I can accomplish prior to covering is getting quite short. If there's anything I can tick of that I haven't yet please let me know!

I did some work on my panel layout and always fully open to feedback. I think I've decided on the gtx200b com for budget reasons as well as I like having the physical panel. If I want to upgrade down the road to two comms, I will and the cost will be a wash. Also I've tried to think ahead to what I may add in the future and have my layout accommodate for this. You can see my "future" layout on the bottom which includes: autopilot panel, G5, vents(if we decide that we need them), CS prop control, and Ipad panel mount. The top image is how I think the panel will be at first. Let me know if I missed anything or if my layout doesn't make sense from a workflow/usability stand point. The PDF file has clear component labels.
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21808

Also i've drawn up a new paint scheme. I was a bit concerned with the visibility of the blue and white. This one took a lot of iterations but I'm really happy with it now and I like that its a bit more interesting (and likely more difficult/expensive). I'm no artist, but I did attempt a Procreate 3D image, with zero practice.
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Thanks for any and all feedback!

aviator79
03-03-2019, 09:01 AM
Love the panel and the paint scheme. The panel is clean and leaves room for upgrades. The scheme incorporates some of my favorite design elements. When you paint the wings, consider how the black inboard taper will meet the tutledeck strakes. I would try to make that paint line meet the trailing edge at the inboard flaperon hinge at the same angle as the strake makes with the fuselage. The green speedster did this nicely. My original scheme idea was blue and white too. If you're concerned about visibility, I might go yellow instead of blue on the wing. I would even consider yellow on top and blue on the bottom, but I'm not sure how that would look, or how to maintain visual continuity with the flaperons. The top of your wing is what people are likely to pick out in the pattern, or when looking for your plane in a SAR situation. Just my $.02; It looks great.

bbs428
03-06-2019, 08:31 AM
Hey Joe - That Paint is great! And that cool black tail triggered a memory from back in the day... Try bringing a little of that yellow onto the tail as well and see how it looks. Just my 2c worth. ;)

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JoeRuscito
03-06-2019, 08:55 AM
Brett I like it! Did you take that?

bbs428
03-06-2019, 10:18 AM
Lol. No, I didn't take it. Google search has tons of images.

Here's a few more. Great bunch of guys... The best of the best.

In the film "Executive Decision", the F-14 Tomcats from Jolly Rogers were the ones that intercepted the hijacked "Flight 343"

That's why when I saw your black tail it was like deja-vue! ;)

I was in a S3A/B Viking squadrons for 22 years. Avionics.

218412184221843

JoeRuscito
03-06-2019, 10:25 AM
doh! Should have caught that!

bbs428
03-08-2019, 10:13 PM
I like your panel layout. Very clean.
Mine is quiet similar layout with a G3X and glove box with a built in docking station in the door for an android
or I-pad. I'll be going with a separate control heads for the auto pilot and Com, the GMC 507 and
GTR 200B.

I still cannot decide if I want to paint and engrave/enamel the labeling and kitfox logo like Trent did or just wrap
it with faux carbon fiber vinyl. How about you?

JoeRuscito
03-09-2019, 04:50 AM
Wrapping it isn’t a bad idea. Then would you use stickers for labels?

I think I’m going to go with powder coating or anodizing and laser etch or dry transfer labels.

PPGflyer
03-13-2019, 08:08 PM
This... is... awesome! I came here to research and here you are doing it!

Mike T

Shadowrider
03-13-2019, 09:20 PM
The down side to wrapping it that I see is its going to be harder to label it and the faux wrap can get damaged fairly easy putting in avionics. I think we are going to powered coat and laser etch for the most durability.

bbs428
03-13-2019, 10:00 PM
Agreed. Anyone in particular?
Someone linked these guys not to long ago. Their located in Mulino, OR.

http://www.lms-laser.com/index.php

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JoeRuscito
03-14-2019, 05:26 AM
Agreed. Anyone in particular?
Someone linked these guys not to long ago. Their located in Mulino, OR.

http://www.lms-laser.com/index.php

21893 21894

Ive been doing some research into both anodizing and etching or powder coating and etching. Im looking to go with a black panel and white lettering. From what I understand with black anodizing this is possible, whereas with powder coating you get a tan color. Can anyone speak to this? Also from my understanding with laser etching you are burning down to the Al underneath, do you need additional corrosion protection on top of the lettering?

efwd
03-14-2019, 05:58 AM
Advantage Avionics ( Chino CA )does a beautiful panel that is laser etched. Would cost me about $1000 to get it done. This price included the cutting of the holes for switches and avionics as well I believe.

Shadowrider
03-14-2019, 05:59 AM
Ive been doing some research into both anodizing and etching or powder coating and etching. Im looking to go with a black panel and white lettering. From what I understand with black anodizing this is possible, whereas with powder coating you get a tan color. Can anyone speak to this? Also from my understanding with laser etching you are burning down to the Al underneath, do you need additional corrosion protection on top of the lettering?
I think the way I want mine done is powered coated, laser etched, then paint wiped in the etching to make it stand out. Just like you do on a gun.

tracstarr
03-14-2019, 06:08 AM
@JoeRuscito any chance you're willing to share that panel layout? Or at least the blank panel outline? Is it to spec? I have to make my panel from scratch (the old one was pre-cut) and I'm just planning to source locally. Would be awesome to lay everything out so I can just have it all cut at once.

JoeRuscito
03-14-2019, 06:25 AM
I think the way I want mine done is powered coated, laser etched, then paint wiped in the etching to make it stand out. Just like you do on a gun.

Oh yeah! I like that idea a lot! I may be able to have it done locally if that works because the laser etcher here said they just burn down to the Al. Can’t wait to see yours!

JoeRuscito
03-14-2019, 06:26 AM
@JoeRuscito any chance you're willing to share that panel layout? Or at least the blank panel outline? Is it to spec? I have to make my panel from scratch (the old one was pre-cut) and I'm just planning to source locally. Would be awesome to lay everything out so I can just have it all cut at once.

Id be happy to share but it’s not perfect it’s just close enough. I’m going to locate everything off one of the corners so the curve doesn’t matter as much. I simply took as straight on photo as I could then imported to solidworks and spline traced the curve.

JoeRuscito
03-27-2019, 07:17 AM
Damn I’m slacking! I can barely keep up with the forum, hats off to all of you making videos!

Lots of delays this month waiting for thing in addition I lost a weekend to my sisters wedding.

I have the wings covered and rib stitched, waiting on a few more feet of reinforcement tape for the last rib before polybrush and finish tapes.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/00be59bdf4ca618ffdf3f0c062ed8525.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/0fdbf438915bace2ce2bd16d18955f1d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/535bd963bb46d8ea73b7fd26974f7136.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/c3b3f206d4992575f16cfed4a3b2ab40.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/c3ac970c3ee84fd0e6ef67362e5b7e8a.jpg

Honestly this was fun! And rib stitching was really enjoyable, I don’t know why anyone would skip it, especially considering it’s the beat practice. It took me about 1 hr per rib but that included laying out the marks, pre pinching, tapes, and stitching. I didn’t use a chalk line because I didn’t like how it was working for me.

A note on rib stitching. I measured everything from the top and bottom edge of the leading edge extrusion. I went 2.75 inches back on the top to clear the front spar and then 3 inch spacing centered around the rear spar everywhere else was 2.5 as recommended except I shortened one spacing to land in front of the lower false rib tube. This spacing cleared all internal structure without issue. I did have to make some custom “needles” out of long paper clips to stitch just the top capstrip above the pitot plate and to work between the cross brace tubing.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/1b13f87cffbd77123b8297e73684efa5.jpg

I’ve started checking off the fuselage covering list and have antennas shipping to drill those holes. Also rechecked my rigging, I’ve been using a digital level I use for Rc helicopter blade setup. Seems to work really well. Been marking every finished bolt with indicator paste.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/e38334ecf70e0f476a33a567dd405d88.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/2e993ad600faa50b9b961792441d266d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/952be3f091bd8af0939f4a9f6306a288.jpg

Butt rib closeouts done. And hysoled, ready for paint.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/57de907ac57a4d64b4e2bd4a81ad5e5f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/82424caecf6acab5e74b185603774444.jpg

Static line run and ready.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/480d503291cd7c84d983acf4340b0b22.jpg

OAT plate installed and wire run. Trim sensor installed and wire run. And tail strobe wire run.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/3541a204db3d5204280bfe3ef256cae8.jpg

I also installed a rudder stop on one side as others have done, as my rudder was just barely touching the horizontal. I didn’t need it on the left but I drilled the hole so it’s there if I need it down the road.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/2937f3d3eb5bf81b14247241cd45dc89.jpg

And lastly I set up the gas struts on the door when I had the wings installed. I wish they were a bit longer at full throw, because with the position of the fuselage tabs you need to have the top very close to the door hinge to get the doors to open fully but when compressed they don’t go nearly to fully compressed. I think it would be better to have the tabs higher so they could have more leverage on the door and use the full throw. Also, I ended up drilling the brackets twice because I didn’t notice the position I picked on the door frame was on top of the bubble door hole I had drilled. Be careful of this position if you haven’t done this yet!

Whoa! Long post. Hopefully some useful info in there!

aviator79
03-27-2019, 08:09 AM
Looking great Joe! That's a fun and exciting part of the build. Now you have a wing instead of just a bunch of parts.

DesertFox4
03-27-2019, 10:42 AM
Great looking wings Joe.👍 Nice stiching. Always my favorite part of the build, covering. Good progress. Congrats to your sister and new brother-in-law.

jiott
03-27-2019, 11:13 AM
Everybody seems to run a foot or two short of rib stitch reinforcing tape. This has been mentioned for years; don't know why the factory doesn't add a couple of feet to the kit-hint, hint.

efwd
03-27-2019, 12:40 PM
I have extra. I didn't wrap it around either leading edge or trailing edge. I also didn't stitch the number two rib at the edge of the tank. I easily have enough to do those as well though.

bbs428
03-28-2019, 08:16 AM
Even with a lost weekend your working at a fast pace. My hats off to ya!

I spend way to much time scratching my head, looking for the right parts and hardware. My kit was 20
years old when I started. A lot of the stickers on the hardware bags have fallen off so it just takes more
time verifying you got the right stuff, sigh. :confused:

I have my RC club opening day in a week so my time has been between finishing an discontinued 83"
wingspan 55cc Lanier Stinger kit that I started last year and finishing a master bath remodel. ( keeping the Mrs happy)
My spare time all but evaporated but I'll be back at it with a vengeance in a week or so!

I am at these steps in the build as well so your post is very timely. I appreciate the pic's and the heads
up about the door placement.

Keep forging ahead Joe!

JoeRuscito
03-28-2019, 08:35 AM
Thanks Brett!

Sounds like you got a lot going on! Ive beed doing very little RC flying but the helicopters have always been my thing. Super fun!

The pictures of others builds were always the most helpful for me. Just helps me think it through. Glad they are helping you. Always feel free to get in touch if you have questions...happy to tell you how I screwed it up! ;-)

Mark123
03-28-2019, 09:48 AM
Joe,

Just now seeing your pics. I'm quite impressed with the progress you have made since I saw you in February. WOW! It's really starting to come together. Keep up the fantastic work. I know you are putting in some major hours to get it done. It's amazing to see all the support and enthusiasm from the members of this group.

Mark

JoeRuscito
04-01-2019, 06:09 AM
Got to “go” to cover my fuselage. Also I moved on to the HS to give finish tapes a try before moving onto the wings. I did not rib stitch the horizontal simply because the factory doesn’t do it on their LSAs so I figured it’s not needed. I think it came out good. Lots of work though! Still need to do final smoothing and leading edge tape. Trailing edge done but not in picture. The fumes are starting to get annoying I wear a carbon respirator 90% of the time and have the garage door open but man this stuff is strong!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/e9941fb4fff0f8d2509515a35f871b09.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/7c0cb7b28bf3094a558696d8128801be.jpg

While Jim was here he brought up a great idea about my paint scheme I’m planning... that I could use vinyl tape for all of the white pinstripe lines and avoid all of the associated masking and need for white ran-thane that comes with those two white lines. With the tape I can just paint the blue, yellow, and black then lay the tape. On the wings too. I’d like to see what y’all think about this idea. Would certainly save me some work and keep the line super clean and consistent thickness.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/09e7bf3aeb229342dfa46d026d8938b7.jpg

Also I have some questions around my “paint booth” but I will post in the main forum as I think it’s more relevant there.

aviator79
04-01-2019, 06:40 AM
I could use vinyl tape for all of the white pinstripe lines and avoid all of the associated masking and need for white ran-thane that comes with those two white lines.
Also I have some questions around my “paint booth” but I will post in the main forum as I think it’s more relevant there.

I tried to paint my pinstriping. I could not get a clean line, and wasn't happy with it. I switched to a 3M pinstriping tape, and it was so much easier.

I know better now how to get clean lines with the tape, and I think if you did a really pro job painting the pinstripes, it would look amazing up close. But for an amateur like me, the vinyl tape is the way to go; I'd highly recommend it. The stripes really make your scheme pop.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/n8F5nqu5lKaxFUv_tMbBuXXbn0akNpDmExedgUQ4mIqt8bmYBG ntZItwwmk7HSLooJf3MSsyjawk_iJVY68bY4RJp96H6kj_qzZm bepvWaL_3OkRcTa9vOzzmre0gh1BilSI3Ttg5KI=w600

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X5brnahJAw1O95ZrH2ScDNblyftxpCShs-EYvo6WS2pgURh5UhAt1G7PB63mYTZ8gzFR8cG_0TotoHqB-orm2odukonevyBWk2aRyy3l7XKSl_tnC7HyJfJzMgekrh4FAVw YeZSr-Zw=w600

JoeRuscito
04-01-2019, 06:57 AM
I tried to paint my pinstriping. I could not get a clean line, and wasn't happy with it. I switched to a 3M pinstriping tape, and it was so much easier.

I know better now how to get clean lines with the tape, and I think if you did a really pro job painting the pinstripes, it would look amazing up close. But for an amateur like me, the vinyl tape is the way to go; I'd highly recommend it. The stripes really make your scheme pop.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/n8F5nqu5lKaxFUv_tMbBuXXbn0akNpDmExedgUQ4mIqt8bmYBG ntZItwwmk7HSLooJf3MSsyjawk_iJVY68bY4RJp96H6kj_qzZm bepvWaL_3OkRcTa9vOzzmre0gh1BilSI3Ttg5KI=w600

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X5brnahJAw1O95ZrH2ScDNblyftxpCShs-EYvo6WS2pgURh5UhAt1G7PB63mYTZ8gzFR8cG_0TotoHqB-orm2odukonevyBWk2aRyy3l7XKSl_tnC7HyJfJzMgekrh4FAVw YeZSr-Zw=w600

Thanks. Yea I’m certainly an amateur and need to bend the odds in my favor anyway I can! [emoji1787] your paint scheme really does look great! And your right the white pinstripes make it!

KitKarson
04-01-2019, 07:05 AM
Really looking great!

bbs428
04-04-2019, 08:45 PM
Good looking wings Joe! The 3m pin-stripping was definitely the way to go. Good choice!

JoeRuscito
05-02-2019, 02:26 PM
Painting painting painting. It feels like the progress has SLOOOOWED. I have a paint booth that works (Read not perfect). Its in my garage and the exhaust leaves the garage through two ducts.
22130221312213322132

I have gotten the wings all the way up to UV and one coat of white on one wing. The spraying has been easy but the moving things around in the garage is a trick and balancing weather and efficiency of moving parts/waiting for paint to dry has been a challenge! Id like to be covering my fuselage at this point but I do not have room so the plan is to get both wings painted through top coat and then move them out of the garage.
221342213522136
My wings are certainly not perfect, the biggest defects are specs of paint/glue etc... I sanded with 400 but was timid to go aggressive and cut the fabric. Im happy with them but perfect they are not! Also I keep finding the occasional pin hole crater that I somehow missed...at this point they are staying and I won't tell anyone where they are ;-)

Still deciding on the wing color but yellow and blue paint will be here Friday so I will be painting this weekend. Mainly deciding between yellow or blue wings. I like the blue but concerned about visibility.... I know yellow will be best for that. Where's the best source for the vinyl tape? Also any tricks/tips for masking for colors? Order of colors?

Something to point out so others don't make the same mistake. I realized I put my front lift strut reinforcements in on the wrong side! The manual is a bit deceiving and I thought I had put them in correctly according to the picture... well I didn't... after talking with the factory I peeled back the reinforcement and added this pate I made in addition to the one on the wrong side.
22129

In other new my engine and firewall kit are here and waiting!

DesertFox4
05-02-2019, 05:01 PM
Good progress Joe. You’ll be making great Kitfox flying videos soon.👍

Mark123
05-02-2019, 06:22 PM
Looks like you are doing a very nice job, Joe. You may think you have slowed down, but when compared to what you showed me back a couple months ago, I’d say you are really getting it done. Build on!

motortommy
05-02-2019, 10:34 PM
Hi Joe,

could you please confirm whether the elevator horn is originally straight (90deg to surface) or angled?
You maybe know that I´m rebuilding a Mod. IV with some `issues` at the moment...

Thanks!
Marc
22137

airlina
05-03-2019, 02:45 AM
Joe, I got a good tip from a pro painter for sharp trim lines . After placing your mask tape and running a fingernail along the edge I would use my hobby spray rig to shoot the edge of the tape with the BASE COLOR first, before using my HVLP gun to shoot the trim color. The idea here is that it is very difficult to seal the mask tape perfectly ,so by shooting the base color along the tape's edge it will fill those little voids that would have allowed the trim color to sneak under the mask and give that ragged trim edge when not accomplishing this step first. Even though it was an extra step in the painting process, I found it was much better to take the time and do it, rather than being totally disappointed when pulling the mask and finding that ugly ragged trim edge. This technique yielded nice crisp lines that I was happy with. Bruce N199CL

JoeRuscito
05-03-2019, 06:21 AM
That tape tip is super helpful! Thank you! Also Marc I will check ASAP... I think its square from memory/eyeballing.

Im wavering a bit on my wing design/color still....Any opinions?
22138

Danzer1
05-03-2019, 07:26 AM
Hi Joe,

I think if you have yellow on the upper fuse - yellow looks better on the wing too, for continuity. Also more visible, so pic #1 would be my option. Looks good!

JoeRuscito
05-04-2019, 06:03 AM
Hi Joe,

could you please confirm whether the elevator horn is originally straight (90deg to surface) or angled?
You maybe know that I´m rebuilding a Mod. IV with some `issues` at the moment...

Thanks!
Marc
22137

Marc looks 90 to me. Hope that helps.

PaulSS
05-04-2019, 04:15 PM
#1 looks best in my opinion :D

Tahoefox
05-04-2019, 04:44 PM
1,3,2 would be my order of preference. $0.02

kmach
05-04-2019, 05:37 PM
I prefer 1 , but all yellow or all blue, not both

ken nougaret
05-04-2019, 06:03 PM
I choose #2. It struck me as best yesterday and I looked again and still say #2.

motortommy
05-05-2019, 10:28 PM
Marc looks 90 to me. Hope that helps.

Thanks Joe. Appreciated!

JoeRuscito
06-05-2019, 05:09 AM
In two months Ive made some significant progress. I should be more diligent with posting updates but Ive been putting every waking hour I have free into the plane. It has been great fun seeing it come together. I will say that the PolyFiber process is extensive and the time spent in the paint booth spraying coatings should not go underestimated. Its seems to me like Ive painted every day for a month so far and more to come! I totally understand the move towards Oratex but Im still happy with my decision to go with PF, happy to discuss this with anyone interested.

Heres a couple phots and comments to show the major steps in the last few weeks.
22432
Finish Tapes on Wings

22433
Covering the Elevator
22434


22435
A point to make on the wings. I thought I followed the manual and put the reinforcements in correctly but I put the front spar on the wrong side. So after talking with the factory, I had to add this little piece under the tapes.

22436
Building my spray booth

22437
Getting tight in the garage!

22438
White PolyTone base coat (I did this on everything that would have a yellow top coat)

22439
Wet Sanding PolySpray on tail

22440
Last time she will be bare!

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This part was tricky but 4 hands and a lot of pulling helped.

22446
Lots of taping!

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And lot of masking!

22449
More Poly Spray!

And....20 picture limit reached

JoeRuscito
06-05-2019, 05:18 AM
Color coats!

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Im super happy with how the Ranthane came out. It took 3 passes with the yellow to get rid of any streaks, but just the two of black and blue. These things are shinny!

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And Ive just started to work on the tail. Oddly two coats of yellow did the trick on the tail. I think Im getting better at making passes without dry spots/streaks and I think the undercoat of white was more consistent.

Ill be putting white on the fuselage in the next few days then it will rest for 4 days as per the manual then I will get it painted as well. Then on to the firewall!

efwd
06-05-2019, 05:54 AM
That is looking terrific Joe. Keep it up. Im super glad I used Oratex for this first build but not certain I would do it on a second build. I don't think I would be so motivated to save the time on a second. Having a really shiny plane would be very cool. Glad your pleased with it.