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Shadowrider
06-01-2018, 02:37 PM
Its official! Kitfox called saying our STI's are ready to be picked up. We drive up this Monday to bring them back. I will post as we travel along this journey that is about to start! Actually.......it started awhile back in building a shop, in order to build an aircraft. I guess I need to back up even further, we needed to build a subdivision to build a house to build a shop.:)
All my siblings now live by me in the subdivision we partnered on so they are now partnering in the kitfoxes.



Why two you ask? Where one is good, two is better right? Actually I was originally going to build a heli and my brother was going to build a kitfox. I decided a kitfox is a little more family friendly, because the heli was a single seater. So now I am building one and my brother is building one. We have now roped my younger brother to be partners also. He is not a pilot, but will be soon! Anyways, we are excited to get building. My goal is less than a year. Plans so far is its a STI, 29" tires, all the options. Oratex covering, edge performance 912turbo. Unsure on the prop for now, but will decide later!


Only pictures I have now is building of the house and shop. Last picture is the trailer we are hoping to have STI's in next monday! Plane pictures to come soon!

rosslr
06-01-2018, 03:01 PM
HI Dustin,

Great story! sounds like everything is coming together in life for you! Well done and looking forward to the twin Kitfox build stories to follow.

ross

ps. That set up is perfect for the Airmaster prop system!

r

efwd
06-01-2018, 04:34 PM
Sweet! So, since you planned out so far ahead for the STIs, have you got plans for fellow Kitfoxer fly ins yet. Im nearing completion and looking for future trips.:D
Eddie

Shadowrider
06-02-2018, 03:24 PM
Yeah let’s do it! You flying out of Fullerton airport? I lived in Yorba Linda years ago....

You could join us when we fly to Alaska.....

Shadowrider
06-02-2018, 03:26 PM
Do you run the air master?”

efwd
06-02-2018, 06:23 PM
Corona will be the ultimate home base (last of the open security locals) but 1st flight will be Chino for safety reasons. Much larger runway and open fields abound.
Ive been wondering how to make an Alaska trip possible. We will see.
Eddie

rosslr
06-03-2018, 02:26 AM
Do you run the air master?

Yes. love it. Expensive but gets the most out of the set up.

cheers

ross

Shadowrider
06-03-2018, 08:57 AM
Sweet. I wish I could get some feedback on someone running it on a STI? Everyone keeps telling us that we don't want constant speed for a bush plane because of weight. Leaning towards a 80" catto. Also looking at the DUC props.

aviator79
06-03-2018, 04:11 PM
Awesome. That'll be great that you guys can work together and help each other out. That Edge Performance engine really will want a constant speed prop. Paul Leadebrand told me that if he could choose either the turbo or the CS prop on a 912iS, that the prop wins hands down. He felt he couldn't take full advantage of the turbo 914 with a fixed pitch prop. He and John both rave about what an amazing combo the 914 and airmaster make. I'm sure the same will be true for your EP engine. IIRC, it'll cost you like 12 lbs. Not insignificant, but also not the thing that will keep you from clearing the trees on takeoff.

Esser
06-03-2018, 04:53 PM
Natalie and I just got back from Stick and Rudder. She was in the 912iS with the AirMaster the whole time and I was in the 914UL with the fixed Whirlwind. They were probably 50lbs lighter than us.

The 914 had a hose stop so that it generally only made 100HP with no over boost.

We out climbed them everytime and the plane showed its stripes once the DA started getting above 5000' but they were faster and could catch us everytime in cruise. The AirMaster with a turbo should be the best of both worlds.

wannafly
06-07-2018, 11:02 AM
This is very exciting. A friend and I are doing the same thing starting in October. Hoping for a 6 month build time( might be dreaming). Each building a sti. Lead the way and keep posting pictures.
For those with experience in building at what point do you want to have your engine? Can a lot be done before you start engine work or are there things you need to do on fire wall where the engine is required?

efwd
06-07-2018, 11:14 AM
LOL. 6 month build, you better order your engine. :Dsort of kidding. It took 2 months for me to receive my engine. There is a lot of work that can get done before engine. All the flight controls, floor, ELT any Autopilot servos if your using, Fabric, and you can finish your panel first as Carl did. Sounds like your going to build in the order Carl did. He might chime in.
Eddie

Shadowrider
06-10-2018, 08:47 PM
We got our STI's. It was a long day.......left at 4am to drive to Homedale. Arrived after 10 am and left Homdale at 4pm to get home around 10pm. Whew!


Kitfox was great in helping us build a rack to store wings above the fuselages in the trailer. Brought 24 moving blankets and not one two many. Brandon's and his father-in-law helped get it all packed and ready for the road trip back to Utah, after we spent some time looking at Johns STI. Because it has the 915 and they are still testing, they can not give passengers rides in it. So we asked John if he would fly it for us quick? It was awesome to watch it fly. Still working on the numbers and what it will do, lets just say its impressive! Now the fun begins in getting these things built! I like pictures better than words, so here you go.

Delta Whisky
06-11-2018, 06:39 PM
Not to hijack this thread . . . . BUT . . . . I thought those mountains in the background looked familiar. I flew out of Nephi for a couple of weeks during two summers not long past and while there hooked into the strongest thermal I've ever enjoyed just over your back yard - timed at over 1600 fpm!! You live in great flying county and I'm jealous.

I know, no picture - it didn't happen. This was taken flying around the peak of Mt. Nebo.

Good luck on your build - I'm only a couple of months ahead of you but your teamwork plan should have you in front in not too long.

My apologies for the hijacking - I couldn't resist.

Shadowrider
06-14-2018, 09:38 PM
Anyone know how to get this to fit? This is on control column. My brother is to this part. I haven't read if there are tips but thought I would post it for him. We have been busy building and I will post pictures this weekend!
Thanks

Dustin

aviator79
06-15-2018, 03:32 AM
I remember it being a huge pain. There should be a tip in the instructions about filing out the hole on one side so that you can put it in diagonally. It's still a huge pain, and I remember thinking it couldn't actually fit. I wish I remembered exactly how I made it work, but I definitely removed material from the hole on one side of the CC.

Delta Whisky
06-15-2018, 06:03 PM
Follow the instructions in the manual - carefully. I forget what caused me a delay but when the day came I did went ahead and put the bearings in without reading the instructions for the umpteenth time - ahead of the control stick. I assure you that you shouldn't do that!! So, now I have a slightly modified assembly.

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:25 AM
After reading, did what some others did and ground down the reamer to help get in some tight spots. Very helpful thanks!

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:28 AM
Also went with others recommendations and used superfil. Since we are going to cover with oratex I bought some balsa off amazon. Other forum recommendations!

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:30 AM
My son really wanted to buy a kitfox, but this is the best we could find. Tried to talk him out of spending his hard earned money, but this one did look fun!

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:32 AM
Ended up in the Seattle area for a day, couldn't help drooling over these beavers!

aviator79
07-07-2018, 10:39 AM
Looking great. I found shaping tips to be pretty enjoyable.

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:39 AM
Made it back from my trips and where able to get back to building. 1 of 2 kitfox is a little bit farther ahead. Starting on the speedster tail right now.

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:41 AM
Any suggestions on the tail? Do you use balsa on the bottom? Seems like an abrupt angle for covering from the frame to the first rib?

aviator79
07-07-2018, 10:45 AM
It covers fine as-is. Some people fair the rudder with balsa/superfil. I actually like the look better without.

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:50 AM
Thanks! It just seemed if we did balsa and superfil on the top of the rudder and the end of the elevators probably need to do this also. I think we will leave it though.

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 10:53 AM
By the way, those that have not started building yet, plan on lots of sanding to get proper part fitment. Rudder pedals are a big pain. My fingers are shot trying to get rudder pedals and brakes to move freely.

efwd
07-07-2018, 11:35 AM
Wondering if you epoxy coated your floor boards? Can't tell from the photo. I first stained mine not thinking ahead that it was all being covered with interior floor mats. If you haven't sealed the wood you will want to do that I believe.

Brandon Petersen
07-07-2018, 12:05 PM
Something that will help with rudder pedal fitment (and in other areas) is notching the forward floorboard to clear the welds and tabs rather than having those things hold the wood artificially high. Easily done with a dremel tool.
FYI...

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 04:37 PM
Wondering if you epoxy coated your floor boards? Can't tell from the photo. I first stained mine not thinking ahead that it was all being covered with interior floor mats. If you haven't sealed the wood you will want to do that I believe.

Yes I did seal them with a polyurethane. Are you saying they will not be covered? I thought they would be covered, at least what you can see correct?

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 04:41 PM
Something that will help with rudder pedal fitment (and in other areas) is notching the forward floorboard to clear the welds and tabs rather than having those things hold the wood artificially high. Easily done with a dremel tool.
FYI...


Thanks! Good catch in the picture. Yes that is what I ended up doing. The welds on the side holds the floor board up on the end at an angle so when you tighten the bracket down it angles the bracket and causes to much friction on the plastic bearing. I also noticed, what others have also noticed, that the rudder pedal assembly does not sit level. I had to put washers under the middle and pilots bracket. Pedal will both drop freely without the springs on. For whatever reason, my entire assemble was to long.



I also had to shorten the torque tubes in order to make the bolts align in the channel on the frame.

efwd
07-07-2018, 05:04 PM
I mean that I spent time unwisely by staining the wood first. The interior kit will cover all the wood making my stain work useless.:)

Shadowrider
07-07-2018, 05:33 PM
Got you! I almost went down that rabbit hole. The instructions are a little misleading by telling you to select the best looking wood grain and being careful when drilling and using wood backing to drill into. I thought I am going to change these out for carbon and make them look sweet, then realized they are all covered.

aviator79
07-09-2018, 06:51 AM
For whatever reason, my entire assemble was to long.

I also had to shorten the torque tubes in order to make the bolts align in the channel on the frame.

I had the same issue. My rudder pedal assembly brackets ended up not centering over the channels because the assembly was too long overall. I actually notched the channels so that the washers would fit underneath instead of shortening the torque tubes. I'm glad to know I'm not crazy.

colospace
07-09-2018, 09:18 AM
My recollection is that I used MS21043 nuts with NAS620 washers. The reduced OD allowed them to fit and to get a socket on the nut. I also upgraded the screws (NAS1351 I think).

Shadowrider
08-23-2018, 07:40 AM
I posted this on another thread, but here is re-post. Things are going well on the build. Some parts are more enjoyable than others.



Build Update


I knew my RC tools would come in handy! Apparently you can only upload little pictures now???


We are onto the wings now. Don't have a picture but working on the fuel tanks now. Rib1 done, flapperon attach points done, attachment doublers done. Build is going good, just trying to stay steady building every chance I get. We are working on getting the firewall forward order as we don't want to be held up with parts. John and Thomas(edge performance) are working with us on what we need. We are going to run the Edge Performance turbo 912. Some ask why are we not using the 915? Well....edge performance turbo 912 is lighter and makes more power than the 915, so it should have some good performance. (and cheaper) Obviously lots of things to figure out, but we are up to the challenge.


New from kitfox, they now offer an extended baggage. They are going to trade ours out and we are going to get the extended baggage.



We are to the part of the build that we need some help on doing it the best way. We are building the wings and need to make sure we get everything in them that we need. We have decided to go with the Garmin g3x touch. Garmin pitot tube install kit from kitfox on order. I think we need to install the remote heading in the wing somewhere? Any input on the best way to do this?


Also we just received our Aeroled pulsar nav/strobe combo. What is the best way to wire these up in the wing? What wire should we use and what connectors? Best place to get the wire and supplies? Sorry I know there is a lot of questions any help is greatly appreciated.

aviator79
08-23-2018, 08:32 AM
Looking good!

I hope these are helpful for ideas:

This is where my OAT is:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gwDlnlWVo9CqmrQWvOl-rNjxBRh1vdn_XVxTO9TzH2xfvBrqvo4e--qRShnVdQ3g2kCbU0OwPRsWAj-ag2a_DnUXLklaGqM5rrQ6qvAsmpuY_Ul0u54wTvo-wMEDilf2iuKOjSLt7Ro=w600

Routing pitot and AOA:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KuTaaKTXdVTSm9GMO42HLp7fZmlnTCzHUS0xetqJho_NL-gU2h4D3-B1bvmcDD9ps5PE4rvX_buSk16a9A99ZzwE9Hs81uoE1wTJSICj jteEDSpGE1Vi7l1Pf2-Wv0WbRt-rsmn5RCw=w600

The bottom side of the wing at the tip. You can see the pitot/AOA routing, but you also see the bottom side of a wood mounting plate and the brass screws that mount the remote magnetometer. (Let me know if you need brass screws, I have tons.)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NM_1ZDv2-g3fhAKX20bn893LEbg5l2aVFkKQVJ1D_tfEh_uOeYZbxFMB3Sa jSJDJpppSTbbryvONLQggFjxAL1zlc0PZnhmOxmTQdLbFmU52J yS3c7uDbNTmbfribBHYCq3f9rkNcoY=w600

Top view before coveirng. You can see routing and magnetometer.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/u8YluH0whSSMrLKHUCWBAMPzDuS8WSpi_Vq_zOimV-TfsrdQHowgQ9dQPWXRzexjMd6DXlwgPMDK9lRj-_iScMHhu-DpQJUhDa6LcdijgYSI5KNjPFyTgLAuTzl9DIoTLgytDahkD48= w600

Wiring to lights in the wingtips, cable for the magnetometer, and the pitot/AOA tubing will all run through the rear spar to the cockpit when the wings are on. I'm using standard molex connetors to detatch wires at the tip so I can remove the tips if I need to. In my case, that will be very near the end of the build. I can't get wings on my plane in my garage - not even if they are folded.

colospace
08-23-2018, 10:53 AM
There were "Molex" connectors included with my AeroLEDs.

Shadowrider
08-23-2018, 08:33 PM
Sweet thanks for the pictures! What are green and blue wires for?

efwd
08-23-2018, 08:46 PM
For sure he has a pitot tube along with a AOA . That requires two tubes to the instruments. Likely his is set up in two colors so that pitot side is one color and AOA is the opposite. Thats how mine is done anyhow.

Shadowrider
08-23-2018, 09:37 PM
Makes sense. I am trying to figure out everything I need to buy?. We are going to be running Garmin G3x with the Garmin pitot/aoa. Is this tubing something I should be ordering?

efwd
08-24-2018, 05:55 AM
Your going to receive a length of pitot tubing in the kit. You will need to procure a second length of tubing for the AOA half of your pitot system.

aviator79
08-24-2018, 06:10 AM
Your best bet is to plan out what you want your system to look like, and then call Garmin discuss it with them. They should be able to help you plan the nitty gritty details, and tell you (and sell you) everything you need. In my case, Dynon sells a pitot install kit that includes tubing and fittings required to hook the pitot/AOA to the Dynon ADAHRS. I'd be surprised if Garmin did not have something similar.

Also, note that I elected to route the tubing outboard toward the tip. It will then run back inboard through the spar. This uses more tubing, but I liked this install better than figuring out how to route the tubing past the fuel tank. It also means my tubing comes into the cabin basically on the centerline of the rear spar. And while I don't really plan to ever fold my wings, running everything through the spar is ideal to avoid stressing tubes and cables while swinging the wings. That said, I've seen beautiful installations that go straight to the root.

Shadowrider
08-27-2018, 10:12 PM
Thanks for everyone's help. I have the oratex covering on order and getting avionics ordered. Firewall forward is getting ordered also. Ouch....expensive month.



Progress......I got all the wing ribs varnished. That was a big job. Took three of us 3 hours do to. Tanks got sloshed, and cleaned. Filler neck installed. One question I have is the instruction seem to be having me install the filler neck drain to come out the top of the cap strip behind the filler neck? The picture does not show this though. I am guessing this is only on an STI? Wondering does the drain go into the wing or out the top?



Picture uploads don't seem to work. I resized to 90k and still can not upload the JPEGs.

Dorsal
08-28-2018, 11:51 AM
On the pics, did you resize to 700X1400 or less? there are resolution limits in addition to total size (90K should be good).

Shadowrider
08-28-2018, 01:39 PM
Yes I resized them to 300x400 and they where 90k. They are so small hard to see detail. Do you know if they are working on fixing it so we can go back to larger photos? Or can I use photobucket and link that way?

Dorsal
08-29-2018, 04:18 AM
I sit corrected as I can no longer upload photos that i could last week. Will be watching the Upload Photo thread.

Shadowrider
08-29-2018, 12:50 PM
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4393.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4393.jpg.html)


What is the best sealant? Called kitfox and they said they are getting away from PERMASHIELD.....


https://photos.app.goo.gl/2C1bnVqnvmoqBCuX7 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/2C1bnVqnvmoqBCuX7)

rv9ralph
08-29-2018, 06:58 PM
What are you using it for? There are so many options for just as many applications.

Ralph

Shadowrider
08-29-2018, 06:59 PM
Fuel fittings into tank

PapuaPilot
08-30-2018, 06:27 AM
Called kitfox and they said they are getting away from PERMASHIELD.....

Did you ask them what they are using as a replacement?

I have always used Fuel Lube because that is what we have where I work. We have been using it for decades on certified aircraft.

Shadowrider
08-30-2018, 06:47 AM
Did you ask them what they are using as a replacement?

John was going to check and let me know........I have not heard from him yet. Just wanted to know what everyone else is using. He was saying they have had problems with permasheild if you run autogas. I plan on 100ll but want to make sure I am good for all fuels.

Shadowrider
08-30-2018, 06:52 AM
Did you ask them what they are using as a replacement?

I have always used Fuel Lube because that is what we have where I work. We have been using it for decades on certified aircraft.
When I search for Fuel Lube this is what it brings up?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php#review_tab

Shadowrider
08-30-2018, 06:56 AM
Thinking of using PST 565 for the threads on the fuel fittings into fuel tank. Anyone think this is a bad idea?

beanforge
08-30-2018, 07:54 AM
When I search for Fuel Lube this is what it brings up?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php#review_tab

That's it. It's a great helping hand for assembly, as well. Just the right amount of stickum for washers in cramped places, etc.

PapuaPilot
08-30-2018, 08:05 PM
Yes, that is what I was talking about.

Shadowrider
10-03-2018, 10:59 PM
Frustrating that none of the photos work. I think I figured out how to embed photos now that are fullsize so hopefully this will work. I have been working a lot and not posting much. I was in Cali for work and was able to visit Eddie and check out his plane! It is looking good! Thanks Eddie for showing me and giving me some ideas.


Nick flew into Provo and we where able to meet up with him. Took me and my brother up. Gave us more motivation to keep plugging along. Amazed that Nick built his in 5 months. Did a stellar job, wiring is top notch.



http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4494.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4494.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4495.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4495.jpg.html)


Installed the extended baggage kit from kitfox and got the boards drilled. Going to remove for covering. I just realize there are a lot of small jobs in between the big ones that can get done.


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4528.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4528.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4512.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4512.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4511.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4511.jpg.html)


Man the tail access is a pain! Took two full days to get that done. I was able to get both sides done and ready to cover. Not sure if we are going to powder coat or not? Anyone tried just covering it with Oratex?


Almost finished up with the wing. Need to tackle the leading edge and then plumbing.


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4397.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4397.jpg.html)


Leading edge was a lot of work but glad to get one wing finished.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4490.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4490.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4491.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4491.jpg.html)


Not real happy with the wingtip stall fence so I took it off. Kitfox is going to build a new wingtig that is carbon wrapped. I am going to leave it exposed and clear it. Didn't like how fragile the stall fence at the end is as worried someone will bump into it and damage it easily. Excited that kitfox is starting to build more carbon parts. Carbon Kitfox STI........??? Stay tuned and I will post pictures.....of wingtip🙂


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4522.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4522.jpg.html)


Wingtip doesn't match up well with the leading edge so I think I am going to blend it better??


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4525.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4525.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4526.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4526.jpg.html)


Hoping to be able to cover by Christmas. We talked to Edge and planning on taking delivery around Jan for engines. Oh, brothers is the same place. Trying to stay close.

efwd
10-04-2018, 07:15 AM
Glad to have you over Cameron.
Things are looking great in these pics. Given all that dang light you have to work with you could really mess up the circadian rhythm and end up working through the night.;) You two will get these built in short order as you have four hands and two backs and the knowledge from one to apply to the second bird. I think these will go together quicker than you might think. The Oratex adhesive is so strong that the panel could be covered with fabric very easily. I don't believe I would have liked how the fabric folds around the corners. There are significant complex edges to deal with. I think you could find a good rattle can automotive spray paint that will match the fabric pretty good. Use white primer if you do spray it. I have silver paint and I used a green zinc chromate on two parts and I do believe these two parts are off a bit as they have a green hue to them. Other places I have used the same paint and its a near perfect match where there is white primer underneath. Pep Boys has auto paint and the Ford Silver is quite a good match for the silver Oratex. My access covers were painted with Poly Tone silver and that silver is what I would call a perfect match for the Oratex. Not the best stuff for metal though. Im betting I will be repainting much of what I have used on metal with some other more sticky paint.

Shadowrider
10-04-2018, 02:42 PM
Thanks Eddie! Trying to find the silver you used as it’s such a close match. Neveda Silver or Rancho Silver? We where thinking of painting edges, then covering and trimming using a blade and not wrapping it but just covering the exterior.

Dustin

aviator79
10-04-2018, 02:49 PM
Hey Dustin,

I folded the baggage sack in on itself and tied it up like a roast for covering. No real need to remove it.

Shadowrider
10-04-2018, 03:26 PM
Good idea. I may just do that and cover it with plastic as I am little messy🙂

efwd
10-04-2018, 05:10 PM
Sorry Dustin, getting my Utah Pilots mixed up.
Nevada Silver.

Shadowrider
10-04-2018, 06:25 PM
No worries. So you feel the poly paint doens’t adhere to metal very well? Wonder if spraying with adhesion promoter before would help?

colospace
10-04-2018, 07:03 PM
I found that bonding Oratex to a solid surface was a real pain because the Oratex and the solid surface trap air. Took a lot of effort to work out the inevitable air bubbles. If you are intent on using the Oratex there, you might try only bonding the edges while leaving an exit point for air and then shrinking it.

Shadowrider
10-04-2018, 07:18 PM
Good tip. Just trying to figure out the best way to have it match the rest of the aircraft. Sometimes I see a kitfox and the tail access panel stands out because its not a perfect match. Sometimes can't even tell its there. I was thinking if I cover the access with same material it would blend in.

rv9ralph
10-04-2018, 07:23 PM
Shadowrider,
When the time comes, use some scrap Orotex and some scrap aluminum to practice/test your technique, it may work.

For technique, think about how upholsterers cover a solid panel for trim. Similar process.

For releasing trapped air, use the method that vinyl covering uses... pinhole and work the air out through it. The pinhole is not noticeable when done.

Ralph

efwd
10-04-2018, 08:12 PM
You saw how good the paint looks on my wing then on the flapperons. I have no confidence in the paint looking good on the metal surface after some time. You have to prime, allow to dry 24hrs and before color coat you apply primer once more and allow it to go to tacky then apply color. It is supposed to melt together. I did that on my engine cowl but I have hangar rash on my cowls already and it doesn't look like it will last long. Im pretty sure if I used my finger nail I could remove paint. I got no air bubbles in my paint anywhere. Poly Tone goes on easy and patching is smooth as glass as well. Can't even tell I touched up the wing stripes. If I were to do Oratex on those panels I would apply glue around the back side edges about one inch wide as well as the entire front side. I would apply the fabric and heat adhere the fabric to the back side after folding it over. Of course you are going to activate the glue on the front, around the edge as well. Now that you have all the fabric in the middle loose, don't push it down or touch it. Use the heat gun and shrink the fabric if you want if it has wrinkles or loose material. My concern would be it warping up the perimeter. Now that the fabric is smooth and you have it warm, use the felt pad and your heat gun and press the fabric down tight. Now you will be left with cutting out the crescent slot and cutting the slots where the parts meet up. Of course you could do the parts separately I suppose. You will use the window edge technique around the fuel tank as well. I secured my fabric around the tank edge and ended up noticing that the fabric was bunching up as I went around. It is OK because using the heat gun to shrink the fabric will tighten it up provided you don't touch the fabric and force it to lock down until it is all shrunk to smooth.

aviator79
10-05-2018, 07:40 AM
Poly-Fiber's manual acknowledges that Poly-tone is a poor choice on non-fabric surfaces. They give you some pointers on how to try to make it work, but basically suggest that you use a different product. If you're pretty confident about the color, get PF Enamel or Aero-thane instead of Poly-tone and it should adhere to the panels just fine after a shot of epoxy primer.

If you really want the right color, you could get a single stage automotive paint color-matched to a fabric sample. That's probably what I would do.

If you do cover them with fabric, I'm sure many builders to come would be interested in you results.

Shadowrider
10-05-2018, 08:07 AM
Thanks for all the info. I have some sample oratex that I will try covering a couple scrap panels I have to see how it comes out. I will start having my local paint supplier start mixing me some paint to try and get a match for the cowling and flaperons and other various parts.

jrevens
10-05-2018, 09:09 AM
For me it was generally easier to paint those kinds of parts than to cover them with Oratex. The only smaller metal parts that I did cover with Oratex were the closeouts between the butt ribs and fuselage on the underside of the wings above the doors.

Shadowrider
10-05-2018, 12:34 PM
Yeah thanks that’s what I am thinking. Hopefully I can get a close match in paint. When you covered the metal parts below the door on the fuselage, do you glue the entire surface or just the outside edges?

jrevens
10-05-2018, 06:21 PM
I glued the entire surface, but those have a pretty small surface area.

Shadowrider
10-05-2018, 07:53 PM
Wondering best way to tackle covering the leading edge. Do you have the LLE on your wings?

efwd
10-05-2018, 08:33 PM
No laker leading edge on mine. I believe Oratex wants you to have glue in all locations where fabric is touching the airframe. Lars even told me to add glue to the aluminum stringers that you installed on the sides and bottom. He advised to shrink the fabric first then dab in the glue along the stringers then heat it up. I used a heat gun and felt pad.

Shadowrider
10-05-2018, 09:01 PM
Thanks! Just trying to wrap my mind around plan of attack when it get here.....hopefully soon!

jrevens
10-05-2018, 09:45 PM
Wondering best way to tackle covering the leading edge. Do you have the LLE on your wings?


I do have the LLE, and I applied glue to most of that surface. I scalloped the aft edge of the LLE on the top, and applied glue to just forward of the scallops. It felt like the best way to me, and gave me further confidence in the integrity of the covering without rib lacing in that area on the top of the wing. You do need to be careful to not overheat that area when heating the glued surface because the LLE is very thin and can be damaged (softened/warped) by the heat.

Shadowrider
10-07-2018, 12:37 PM
Made some more progress. Pulled the left wing off and put the right wing on. Fuel tank in, #1 #2 rib installed. Working on the wing tips. A lot more work than originally I thought. Because the wing tips bow when you attach Brandon recommended laying some fiberglass down to stiffen them. Then they did not seem to match up with the LLE very well so I decided to blend them with some superfill and some sanding. Started taking off the fence on second wing so I can install the carbon fence.


Second wing is going faster for both STI's as now we know what to do. We try and think we are each building a plane, instead of us both building 2 planes.....:)


Should be able to on Monday/Tuesday to finish ribs, fuel cap drain, trailing edge. Then pull wing back of to do the LLE. Much easier to do it vertically off the plane.



http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4526.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4526.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4546.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4546.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4547.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4547.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4541.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4541.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4542.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4542.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4540.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4540.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4548.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4548.jpg.html)

tjentzsch
10-07-2018, 03:43 PM
Not sure what I like more, that boat or plane ;)

Looking good.

aviator79
10-07-2018, 05:06 PM
Looking good, Dustin! Nice job fairing the tip to the wing with Superfil. Quality work.

jrevens
10-07-2018, 05:50 PM
Agreed... looking good. I was not nearly so careful with the fit of mine. They look like crap compared to yours!

Shadowrider
11-05-2018, 04:37 PM
Hi Guys!



Thought I would post a few updates. Wings are about ready to cover. We want to paint the 1# rib and spars on the inboard section before covering. We are having some paint mixed up to try and match the silver oratex, then we are all ready. I think the plan is to cover the wings first so we make sure to have enough to do both planes. (unless someone suggest otherwise) I got the right wing tip cut trimmed and blended. Waiting on kitfox (hopefully soon) to send us new fences, that is why I am missing mine fences. Flaperons where mounted and a little tricky to get installed without binding. Deviated slightly from the instructions but overall we where able to get them installed and moving easily without binding and not flexing the wing. Biggest note is don't have a wing support on the end of the wing as this flexes the wing when installing flapperons. Move support to wing strut attach point.



Wiring in complete in both wings. Took a lot of time to route and secure wiring. Used rescue tape, and nylon lacing to secure so they don't chaff.


My brothers STI is about the same spot. Hoping to have both planes covered by next month. Edge performance turbo912 engines are hopefully showing up first of the year.


Also thinking about Nikk and his accident. Heart goes out to him and his family. Glad he is still with us and sounds like he is fighter. I was able to look over Nikks plane when he flew it out about a month ago and looked over how he built it. Let me say I can see why Trent and Kitfox had him wiring up Trents plane. Hang in there Nikk and praying for you and a full recovery!



http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4593.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4593.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4592.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4592.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4632.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4632.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4638.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4638.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4611.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4611.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4494.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4494.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4495.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4495.jpg.html)

efwd
11-05-2018, 09:16 PM
Looking Great Dustin. Looks like your no Hack at the wire stuff either. The wires in my plane are the worst part. Having had them made by measurements I provided left a bit to be desired when it came to having the wires perfect in length. I have the need to double back wires to take up slack, some more than others. So Probably if I build another, I will wire it myself. I learned a great deal even having had professionally built harnesses.

aviator79
11-06-2018, 02:42 AM
Looking great! Nice progress.

Definitely cover the wings first. They are the easiest thing to cover: simple geometry, constant cord. It's good to cut your teeth on those before getting to the curves of the tail feathers or the razorback.

PapuaPilot
11-06-2018, 11:45 AM
I chose to cover my rudder first because it is the smallest part. If you make a mistake on it there is only a little fabric to replace, not so for the wing. I do agree that the wings are the easiest to cover.

Flyboy66
11-07-2018, 11:25 AM
Would you be willing to take more photos and post of the wiring, connectors...throughout the aircraft (fuselage routing for wires/pitot static..

Thanks,

Steve

Shadowrider
11-07-2018, 01:18 PM
Would you be willing to take more photos and post of the wiring, connectors...throughout the aircraft (fuselage routing for wires/pitot static..

Thanks,

Steve

Sure! I am @ MMUN then KBOS. When I get home I can post some more. I am using this knot to lace cables.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r_IM844c9SE

Shadowrider
11-11-2018, 11:21 AM
Okay here is a few more pictures. I am trying not to use zip-ties in areas the wont be accessible. Lacing the wire is a lot more work. We had some paint mixed up to match the silver oratex 6000 that we are doing. Need to finish prep the surface and I think we will start covering the wings this week. We made a rudder out out solid 3/8 aluminum tubing and practiced covering it. I '"think" we are ready to start covering the wings!







http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4655.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4655.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4656.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4656.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4657.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4657.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4658.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4658.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4659.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4659.jpg.html)

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4638.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4638.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4660.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4660.jpg.html)

airlina
11-11-2018, 12:41 PM
Some nice quality control and attention to detail with the lacing and chafe protection. Also like the Leonardo statement in the background. Keep up the nice work. Bruce N199CL

Flyboy66
11-12-2018, 09:40 AM
Nice work. What quick disconnect plugs are you using for NAV lights, and where did you get them? Price per?

What engine are you thinking about?

Steve

Shadowrider
11-12-2018, 10:09 AM
They come with the aero leds. We got them from kitfox....I try and forget all cost once spent so I can’t remember. Around 900$ for the set I think. I tried to find the same connectors to use in other places like the trim motor and sensor. I went with micro molex connectors for those. Figure someone will thank me when hopefully years down the road when the motor needs replacing.

Engines are ordered. Edge performance turbo 912 (155hp) airmaster cs prop. Going this route because Edge builds a good engine and it’s over 50 pounds lighter setup than 915, even though the 915 is sweet setup.

Shadowrider
11-16-2018, 07:43 PM
Anyone know where you get the door latches like in the end of this video? Anyone have them and can give a review of them?


Skip to 6 min mark
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=45F_Rat9c5Q

DesertFox4
11-16-2018, 08:35 PM
You could check with Kitfox Aircraft. Really not 100% sure they carry them however they might. Check with them.tel:208.337.5111

If not Murle Williams in Phoenix, AZ has a kit available with all the mounting blocks ect. 602-978-0553. William’s Aviation.

Shadowrider
11-16-2018, 09:59 PM
Sorry I should I of said that I already did contact kitfox. They said they don’t offer those, they thought a forum member may sell them? Little confused on why they did not offer much info? Maybe not that great? Thanks for the number!

DesertFox4
11-16-2018, 11:24 PM
They work great. Loved that door latch on my model 4.

Shadowrider
11-17-2018, 11:23 AM
Are you building a 7? Will you be putting one on it?

DesertFox4
11-17-2018, 07:24 PM
I think I will

efwd
11-18-2018, 12:56 AM
Where ya gonna get it?

bumsteer
11-18-2018, 07:07 AM
Murle Williams has one. $75.

Rick

DesertFox4
11-18-2018, 07:08 AM
From Murle since Kitfox Aircraft doesn’t carry them.

efwd
11-18-2018, 09:18 AM
Thanks, sorry, I forgot you had already stated that.

Shadowrider
11-18-2018, 03:46 PM
Yes thanks guys!

Shadowrider
11-22-2018, 04:19 PM
One wing down....3 to go😬. Quick question on the Oratex. We installed at 300f on the heat gun. Then we turned it to 350 and started to shrink it. It is pretty tight. How tight do you tighten it? Do we turn it up even more and shrink it more?

bumsteer
11-22-2018, 06:53 PM
Best answer I can give you is to look in the manual and it will show how you press on the fabric with your fingertip with a certain force and see how long it takes for the dimple to disappear. I've done my tail feathers at 350 and it meets the criteria.

Rick

efwd
11-22-2018, 08:51 PM
Don't exceed the recommended temp that is in the manual. It tightens to 100% of its tension then lets go and goes loose. Unrecoverable.

jrevens
11-22-2018, 11:29 PM
Unless the formulation has changed, the maximum allowed temperature is 132 deg. F higher than PolyFiber (which is 350 deg. F). I did my whole airplane at about 320 deg. since that was as high as my Toko iron would go, and it is nice & tight, but there is a lot of "cushion" still to heat it to a higher temperature if necessary. The absolute maximum temperature according to Lars with Oratex is 482 deg. F (250 deg. C). The tighter you install the fabric before shrinking, the less heat it takes to get it to where you want it to be of course. Like Rick said, the manual specifies the test procedure for tightness.

Shadowrider
12-06-2018, 09:35 PM
Made some progress! We are liking the Oratex so far. We got the lower quality, found a few flaws but not bad. We got all the wings covered. Lots of work, glad that is done. We found these gloves at the hardware store that worked awesome. They insulate and they also have rubber fingers so one of us can pull the fabric tight. I think covering the wings first was a good decision because they are easy to do, just time consuming.



http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4771.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4771.jpg.html)


Testing the down-wash lights before covering. We put some lights in for all the camping trips we have planned!






http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4770.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4770.jpg.html)




http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4757.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4757.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4782.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4782.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4783.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4783.jpg.html)

aviator79
12-07-2018, 09:52 AM
That's some top notch looking work. You'll have a beautiful pair of planes.

Clark in AZ
12-07-2018, 10:02 AM
Nice work! What down wash lights did you install in the wings? Looks great.


Clark

efwd
12-07-2018, 11:08 AM
Definitely found the matching silver I see.

Shadowrider
12-07-2018, 11:30 AM
Definitely found the matching silver I see.

Yeah went to the local automotive paint shop. It’s a valspar paint that should hold up good. If anyone needs it I can post it.

Shadowrider
12-07-2018, 11:31 AM
Nice work! What down wash lights did you install in the wings? Looks great.


Clark

They are just a small off-road led. Like one that you use to make a rzr steet legal.

efwd
12-07-2018, 01:33 PM
Post it. I need to make my rib number one look like yours.;)

Shadowrider
12-10-2018, 11:43 AM
You can have it mixed up to spray it, or they will mix it in an aerosol can. We figured for the butt rib a can should be fine.



http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4676.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4676.jpg.html)

tracstarr
12-12-2018, 06:03 PM
How is it your gas cap is so recessed? Is this a feature of the 7s that my 6 wouldn't have?

efwd
12-12-2018, 06:18 PM
It is the STI wing. much thicker wing, same gas tank though, I would assume.

jrevens
12-12-2018, 06:19 PM
How is it your gas cap is so recessed? Is this a feature of the 7s that my 6 wouldn't have?

I believe that’s the STI wing... probably thicker, using the same fuel tanks.

Shadowrider
12-15-2018, 06:27 PM
So when we ordered the tk1 monster landing gear we assumed that it included the tail wheel assembly also. So we have the stock matco wheel and stock tail assembly. Instead of switching them out later, thinking of selling what we have new in box and going to the tundra light and t3. Is the T3 what everyone recommends? Is there something on the t3 that always breaks? Is there something better or did they update it?

aviator79
12-17-2018, 09:09 AM
I've only heard good things about the T3. It's what I have, and what I flew at Stick and Rudder. I believe Brandon Peterson doesn't like the Tundra Lite. You might give the factory a call to discuss what they feel is the best setup.

Esser
12-17-2018, 09:44 AM
I did what you did. I sold my Matco, kept the spring as a spare and ordered a T3 and a TundraLite. I love my setup.

Brandon Petersen
12-17-2018, 10:39 AM
I'm ok with the tundra light. It's the baby bush I'm not a fan of.....

David47
12-18-2018, 06:29 PM
I took factory advice and went with the T3 and A3200 tailwheel and not the Tundra Lite.

efwd
12-18-2018, 08:52 PM
https://vimeo.com/158973148
I just watched this video of that combination. Damn does that tail wheel take a beating. The terrain seems kinda typical for a backcountry spot, except big rocks every now and then. Im not sure how my steel spring could take that?

jrevens
12-18-2018, 11:18 PM
Wow, those are some loose tailwheel springs! He seems to to be able to get almost full rudder deflection without moving the tailwheel. I also noticed he brings the tail up, then hits the ground again with the wheel as he rotates. Sorry for getting off-track on this build log!

Shadowrider
12-20-2018, 07:39 AM
Getting ready to cover the fuselage. Autopilot servos are installed. Elevator is rigged. FYI for installing garmin autopilot, you need the autopilot install kit from kitfox, if you don't want to build a mount, and it does not include the servo extension arm that you need. Make sure to order that at the same time. I need to just anti tamper each bolt and then I am ready to cover. You oratex guys and tips for covering the fuselage? I "think" my plan of attack is to do the bottom, then left side, install static port, then right side. I plan on wrapping triangle windows when doing the sides. I will take any tips anyone had. Thanks!

Meyer
12-20-2018, 08:08 AM
Any pics of the AP install? I did order the kitfox mount, I don't care to recreate the wheel. I'll get the servo extension arm too.

Along these lines, I saw a comment in another thread about the initial clocking of the servos. How did you set that up?

Thanks and good luck on covering!!!

Shadowrider
12-20-2018, 08:59 AM
Any pics of the AP install? I did order the kitfox mount, I don't care to recreate the wheel. I'll get the servo extension arm too.

Along these lines, I saw a comment in another thread about the initial clocking of the servos. How did you set that up?

Thanks and good luck on covering!!!


I was not too concerned about the aileron as things will change when final rigging and you can access it fine. The elevator I had already rigged it, I just needed to shift the length of a control tube toward the back tube. Hard to explain, but it makes sense once you install it. Basically I needed to shorten the forward control tube and lengthen the back tube so the servo did not bind.


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4826.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4826.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4832.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4832.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4828.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4828.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4829.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4829.jpg.html)


You can see the aft control rod is lengthened and the front one is shorter. (I verified that I can still see thread in the hold of the rod end)

jrevens
12-20-2018, 06:33 PM
… You oratex guys and tips for covering the fuselage? I "think" my plan of attack is to do the bottom, then left side, install static port, then right side. I plan on wrapping triangle windows when doing the sides. I will take any tips anyone had. Thanks!
Sounds like a good plan to me. That’s how I did mine.

Shadowrider
12-21-2018, 06:47 AM
Anyone have pictures of the underside tail area with covering? Trying to figure out how to cover around tail wheel attachment plate? Do you go under it I assume? I guess I should re-read instructions again.....

Shadowrider
01-02-2019, 10:08 PM
Made some progress!!! Fuselage is completely cover on one plane, the other one needs the right side. (Tomorrow it will be done) A lot more work than we thought. Here is some pictures. Really liking the oratex. A few times I was not sure it was going to turn out. That stuff is kind of magic how much it shrinks and in the end looks good.






http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4839.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4839.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4841.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4841.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4852.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4852.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4853.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4853.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4854.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4854.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4855.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4855.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4856.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4856.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4857.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4857.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4858.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4858.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4859.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4859.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4863.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4863.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4864.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4864.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4866.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4866.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4867.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4867.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4868.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4868.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4869.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4869.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4870.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4870.jpg.html)


I am now working on the wingtips. Brandon from Kitfox arrived monday bringing gifts. We received our firewall forward kits and a some carbon fiber. Carbon tech Kitfox......oh yea!


While in the oratex mode we are going to cover the wingtip in oratex. Then once the wingtip is finished install the wingtip fence. We are also going to make a small wingtip replica and install them on the ends of the flaperons to match the wingtips.



http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4874.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4874.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4873.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4873.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/theshadowridercarrier/IMG_4871.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/theshadowridercarrier/media/IMG_4871.jpg.html)

AirFox
01-03-2019, 11:41 AM
Looks good Dustin! I like the Flaperon tip idea.

colospace
01-03-2019, 04:03 PM
Looking good; so clean before the tapes go on.
If I were doing the covering again (perish the thought), I would do the upper surface/tail transition as you have done.

Shadowrider
01-03-2019, 04:18 PM
Thanks! Yeah I got excited that the fuselage is done. Well I guess I still have the upper portion of the vertical stab.:mad: I am only taping the fabric joints. If its touching the fuselage I glued it and I am not taping it. So taping is done on the bottom.:) I will tape the razor back and vertical stab when I finish the upper portion. I am waiting to get the landing gear back from powdercoating, then I will put it on its gear. Then I will cover and tape the upper portion of the vertical stab and down the razor back. Also waiting on TK1 for the tail spring. They are saying next week they should have pictures out.

Shadowrider
01-05-2019, 09:56 PM
Put in many hours but feels like there is not much to show. I was able to get the flaperon tips fences cut, sanded and filled with hysol. There was some imperfections in the clear coat so I filled with some resin, wet sanded and polished. My plan now is to fill the flaperons ends with balsa, sand flat so there is a flat surface to attach to, and then attach the carbon tips. I wanted to practice on a small scale before doing the wing tips. I was able to find some die that I had from building a surf board years ago. I used that to die the hysol, and then fill the ends of the carbon. You have to carve out the foam between the laminated carbon sheets. Taping off saved a lot of time getting hysol everywhere. I am also filling small imperfections then I will wet sand and attached to the wing tips. I was able to get the wing tips covered with oratex and they are ready for the wingtips to be installed. Photobucket is now saying I have used up the free space. With Google photos I figured out how to embed the photos but they are way to big. I will see if I can somehow resize and embedded them. Anyone know how to resize embedded photos?

Shadowrider
01-05-2019, 10:17 PM
Ha! Figured it out. The number in the last of the html code is the size.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vjToUlA5QZk0HBWSYrd5wJ263580sH8e_mf-EcnWB04eoxgbKUYDMTkQtvJpeQ4e14OYJXMTK0vk3R9gAV9cte Qr6qWfdIJQoGgUVWJHZrgmtsYn7kd6dy9-YSH7eL1UtCKr7U4OZW8=w800



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TAMrbpKa6Z6UCpw65vye1lEkCbKRSZu2QzmtVNK9bIoxriWwwM bGVsaDuy5V76U4scZnkoEP3n8krGWZ4uGxBweyefoZ-LsngDSlYFEo4x07t-TdT8gK2VCCVnSO6-JbuNTwzIqJa9o=w800











I taped off the wingtips to keep my from getting black hysol all over them.







https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9UakUaUPet_-yWcOA5wHkLNrjQhaRqFT2qP0EVuJctJMz0j2hdl1ofX22QXSJJ XRZZLUAIXQRF7yxtJdUtJ2gQpanWBH4RAONiwNGPAsOR14GL9-KDoqdxGQyF12tuQQRVJruiSyyVU=w800





I am now filling the small imperfections, then I will wet sand and polish should be ready to glue on!



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0FA8JbJ7r1z1Kz_1IgWlRvE63HHfecssf7BiMtDhwEUNcMZQDB tRs_TkexzX4yuefOO2Dm2TcgskoVRKHpkNIeqLQ0wy8XQbPYEi 1QOpPJLq41mSDE_BcZhnFDtZlbkPVn-_azn4Xtw=w800

Shadowrider
01-11-2019, 07:22 PM
Progress!



I am back on the road working now so I have some time to do a writeup! Love the cold and so do turbines. Old gal was climbing like crazy.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AIkcRstrRDrCud8Z1Rla7CvivJVNikia_5QmRiPmZfmWL7a5bY 6msRzVyaYXSUxti_i5PqCFOZRRpUJCjwzAQhGNlBbeKUMQd0hM MrptcANZQ03l32gC9FFY9Nku-EOeOX_YLsVZfdo=w800



We received parts back from the local powder coating shop. We went through every silver. We did our best on matching the silver oratex, which is hard to do. We powdered coated landing gear, jury struts, horizontal supports and tail access covers. They where black. We got close but I am afraid the tail access is going to be not close enough for our liking.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vyrKWfEA5oQL0kehxVS-1PawZrlSPdNvv8m7UglORU-KOv7dWsNyISPkC54nui-SQXxl-RoeFHJ1bglUhHSs1ZEvKsNaYRu9ZW0Mggo2hTdUKzdqcY6Mk9J FYCx-f4N-aEAWn0ES6QU=w800





I was able to get my wingtips finished up and the Nav lights installed. My brothers are coming shortly. Also finished up the flaperons ends to match.
I ended up wet sanding both sides starting with 1500 and ended with 3000. Really happy how they turned out! Thanks Brandon from Kitfox for getting us these!



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l17pJmtvdQxcG78v1E4D8zgI-79UYcokcvGVOCCJyxNxzfcd0V1Va_Vhv3sSDI_qSTiBkhU0tlF Lu1K0ZTtQM16WY4VwsUDZi5sN7Fron26oBmMwrtOCHkIbFNjre-NbqAG-D5B23rs=w800https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lGuWD_51XuWHZJCNNOh9FqmXOHPrEa_ELb9NWLLIZDWzKuiV1-F3LD-YILGEKV1oWSOlJiq1fsK8TIOAK-LQdTa7a023XatU1a5QfCQwf8JcJV2axrKjm5AxTnR2LjDn-DJx6MUq35E=w800https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/o6ANZL6mTcx7Oq05M2SM-JO_bZfVx_xTTuzRbYwuxkTY95cDi3MlsIQLyMCGGgiMKuH3eJm J4qwHKE8xsv1hRVQ-cT3tlOCmwDJlenfs0o4sOmwZoZSw79Mu3g4QzgHKmcjfCsl1Tt k=w800




It was a little nervous about gluing them back on after all that sanding and polishing. I wanted to make sure we had enough epoxy, but not to much to make a huge mess. Ended up taping them off so the excess could be wiped off easily. Didnt want to do to much but for sure wanted enough!






https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DRa8kRlZWTqrTobWC5D7wNFX8yD34y-Hfm-5VRgNVrgNzvT49r4w4hEzOaQqJMh1M71L7GSjoXcodDTYC1Eyd oOTHlvgDmDxHyoHPN2Fsjps5O0nuyJZkA5vI5OOBcWhqL_NdDa o2wA=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FfSH73CJUZaZ4N_2jo3WSLiDrdDCdFygF1r_SzAm-oPOG83RavHzV0nv2Ay4MFNAqhZPtFtkZSkqGRfBDLV7ruKllva zN9jQ6fMZfy_kOZA3YZvJmLeCtfzYbwT4OsQnzPnG84e95LU=w 800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BSkMBTb1rIVZ4L7X7hc3_zkE6EDSJ8QfT96ylUYq5QX1DzGvKL 8bfFOvdTfyjoKP8GhOCad4fwURcoOHlQ5m6c1GveXxa-cWKVa5WfoBqPOlZ3ZUQ5Xj0Ka2-9MgSl15EDLoLU2G7i0=w800

Finished wiring the connectors and both wingtips are ready to install. I can now say one planes wings are complete and ready to go. Feels like the first thing I have actually finished. Second planes wingtips should go faster now that we have figured out how to finish. Ended up using hysol dyed black to fill in the foam. Then sanded smooth. Ended up turning out sweet! The dyed hysol makes them look like solid carbon, but they are still lightweight. (foam core)



We are trying to figure out next step. I think we will cover main gear and install the gear and set it on its gear. Still waiting for TK1 to hopefully release there tail spring to see if its better than the T3. Then we will jump back to covering the tail.


Also we decided on tail numbers! We really wanted something easy to say and with the fewest syllables. We also wanted it to be easy to jump from one plane to the next, since we will be flying both often. We went with Tango FOX for Turbo Kitfox.


N33TF
N53TF

bbs428
01-11-2019, 08:05 PM
Really nice work. That Oratex is some nice stuff. :)
Matching colors is a difficult task, especially if you want perfection. Finding the right hue of silver will be a challenge but not impossible.
Love the way the wing tips turned out! I might have to do something similar.

Shadowrider
01-20-2019, 05:01 PM
Had a week off work and able to get lots done. I feel like I am so close (to finishing covering) yet so far away. Decided to change gears and do something different this week. Worked on building the landing gear. Was able to get the cabane gear built and covered. I used balsa and hysol to fill the tops and decided to leave the bottom open.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S4yUFLG2GJK5t9W3-mZl_DJJD51yCM7Mel5nNmXCf9mprOuvSI31tXjjRLW0ze0Fu6p vHkw1JUSjeUHRpVV4Qh9pNo0X4doQ6po4IDoV_C15TOdn9My79 Niq8iF5JgSKXJ0-9hsJUgQ=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VUvhCDSgAXc5SH2kWDqZfYbJKUzCw3JnL7SiXoSdtDN9lhYBEF M4TkcK-yJ9TMboXO-s9lMg6HVEuaSFZe0GST2aVR_SL1ZQwAn0Mokk4keWTlEZA-9VlLmO-Wc9ql-sV4I0teQhXy4=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sR_xZxj_p9Ud0N3CVpYqPvf6MNa1MJ4Ee6e-IgV3_9Tb6iTRcTpFyArjvi3GhVoBrTPUKWOgErov1wXzfBIJBh pstfyPqqyZfCPqEabnLmZvQ3AQOAzq_4Wlxytid7EFH6YPfT_Q CYE=w800

When your building and you can see progress I think it the most enjoyable. Its hard to spend all day and not really see progress. Decided to pack bearings and install tires on the wheels. Then get the gear installed.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0eiKlwpD1e8xtG6tZ8-uie-SUtR6dF_wahT557wrA_HpGbAdjBayACzOLmGkzdjsHAO0sqA2M oCMGN5N63PtQ8vYOX5SyHggjE6dla4IQYSunpuIjgYny4WH-jn_kRZiYgAj1UAd95I=w800





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/n11B8zmv5aaMpudGIp7J3DhOMM1MdUWffS43jHHtkGNRo2c5ih P965LYTZAE63dYkDfkwuTLJ3U8xtsD245LC0cq1OrldMKHB3Zk KOqKuP1Rmp98MjTdIrds_TjQhGvdCmNDPgn95sc=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8DPXVQU7ItQ75bcwb8KfkQ5Pg43iDzC6IvSbE4i95MS_fDjMjv cbaokd43y1TnoqwaORs9jmDDZvkHoRGJ-NoKebpobGUiMlZl4yOtJqyybSlqMGZBQdul0J6IAONdDOvT8bh pRj_K8=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AnrW-4ePoxZZBt_9N8WSf8VNCjT0ynDjBwHqYQgOtIhA9Lk6EjHPv4O ZotzCDp1vpRr6ACpjpD04ztvp6OlZQ8-p6qnA0iMIBvscXDIYa0AgiqdH6XSCWj8ZZ0YeDxIy1fMi-Gsmc6Y=w800

Finally started working on covering the tail components. Rudder is defiantly the hardest to cover up to this point. Its very hard to get it looking good in my opinion. Next week I am hoping to get the rest of the tail done. We ordered are T3 and tundra lite. Plan is get the gear on then get both planes turned over. Maybe we will be able to get a photo of them both together at that point!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UjkHQ_memoWegazGNaVCAf1Ngmj-oW5XikA91YUKn9N_rqkkYSXk5xx0PgLhlGGhsBrSnNuYWBDYxM ajVHdagZwDgrTy59R52mCxAtBiIklVn_iPo_IGPuSS_eBBlELD WbcE8prmpxY=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/b3N_amn6vvrLj0oZL3C0mBxbis_hTcwIyy075lXdy8tvnQNn2f k4a-b0PctKf0e4uTmwvGyEDUpkBazrQjZ9TWI9eQw9AahcFacnK-gtNlmQaHSuzVqk7QMtzE5IAcMTf6BH7Pfdm44=w800

Shadowrider
01-20-2019, 05:07 PM
Also you oratex experts. I have not finished taped the rudder yet. I decided to try a test using finishing tape and whats the trick to installing it without wrinkles. Tried the heat gun to stretch it and then come back and shrink the side before placing down. Still got small wrinkles. I am using 2" finishing tape. Saw a video on youtube. Is this the best method? Any other tricks?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ealbBpBHRIQ

efwd
01-21-2019, 07:04 AM
To start, it is looking great. Your rudder fabric is looking better than mine by quite a bit. My foam tips really hindered my heating up the fabric without melting the foam. Anyhow, Finish tapes aren't that difficult especially since you have two people to do it. The part you may find tough is the transition from the fuse to the vertical. That corner is an inside turn rather than like all the other outside corners you have dealt with so far. I used one long finish tape from the turtle deck to the rudder. I secured the two inch tape as usual starting at the turtle deck. At the transition I glued the center of the tape to the entire corner along its center first. Then, with gloves on to protect my fingers from the heat gun I proceeded to heat up about 1-2 inches of the tape as I pushed down on the tape to secure it down. Your fingers need to be in the flow of hot air (hence the gloves). Take the heat away while holding the fabric down with your finger until it cools a bit. It will lift up if you remove the pressure before cool. Turn to the opposite 1-2 inch segment. Heat it up trying not to heat the opposite side that you just attached or it will lift. Work back and forth like that until you have made the entire corner. Not the easiest but doable. I figured that if I messed it up I could just cut out that segment, cut two banana shape tapes and installed those to either side. To cover the seam around this inside radius you would then use a one inch wide tape to cover the seam. One inch tapes are far simpler to get around a corner without wrinkles.

Shadowrider
01-21-2019, 10:01 PM
Thanks Eddie! Now I need some suggestions on how to cover elevator? Thinking envelope left side, and e envelope right side? Just not sure how you deal with end caps? Any suggestions on how you oratex guys did it?

efwd
01-22-2019, 06:40 AM
That is exactly how I did it, Envelope left then right. There are probably no advantages to doing it any one particular way. It would be just as well using four individual pieces. End Caps? not certain what you are speaking of. Don't use foam to finish off the tips, use balsa or anything else that will endure the heat you will need to wrap the fabric around the tight radius.

Shadowrider
01-22-2019, 07:28 AM
Yeah I finished with balsa. It’s just seams the trouble area is the end cap radius as it goes from straight to area of the back bar to the curved area on side, spot where it all bunches. Only way I see to do it is make a cutout to keep wrinkles from forming?

jiott
01-22-2019, 10:41 AM
Covering the end caps of the elevator and stab is probably one of the more difficult things to do if you are trying for a really neat job. I can't speak for Oratex, but with Polyfiber you will have to make some small triangular cutouts, darts, and just keep heat forming the fabric around. Its amazing how well it conforms after working it a while. Remember, a finish tape will cover up your first efforts with the fabric. The finish tape is far easier to conform to the end caps, ESPECIALLY if you use bias tape (doesn't come with the kit but is well worth buying).

jrevens
01-22-2019, 12:11 PM
Shadowrider,

I covered the elevator with 4 separate pieces, mainly due to trying to minimize fabric waste with the cut-out layout I came up with. The tight outside curves are difficult with Oratex. Unlike Eddie, I found the inside curves to be easier (on the fuselage to vertical fin transition for instance). With practice, and a little patience, I got better at it, but it’s difficult. If bias tape was available it would be easier of course. A second set of hands is very helpful, with all of the pulling, heating and stretching involved. Mine ended up with some small bunched up wrinkles on the tight outside curves, and I came up with a way to handle that. I think I documented it on this website, but what I did is take a single-edge razor blade, removed the back “stiffener”, and held it with two hands in a shallow curve to carefully “skim” the wrinkles off until they were flat. Then I overlayed small banana shaped pieces for mostly cosmetic reasons. You could notch the tape ahead of time also, but the way I did it didn’t leave too much that showed under the “banana” doilies. I believe that I was one of the very first on this forum using Oratex, and I felt a little like a groundbreaking explorer, so there are probably others now who have discovered better ways.

Shadowrider
01-23-2019, 08:24 AM
Thanks for the tips! Going to give it a try today.

Shadowrider
01-25-2019, 12:44 PM
Anyone bought a tundra lite lately? Does $1195 seem kind of steep?

Esser
01-25-2019, 12:54 PM
It’s steep but I looooove mine.

Shadowrider
01-25-2019, 12:55 PM
Okay just making sure we not being over charged. Did you install the lock mechanism?

Esser
01-25-2019, 01:09 PM
I haven’t but I might. I don’t feel I need it unless I’m taxiing in a strong cross wind

dbest13
01-26-2019, 03:44 AM
What made you guys decide Tundralite over Matco? I'm currently trying to make that decision

Shadowrider
01-26-2019, 10:45 AM
Mostly going on others recommendations. We did fly with Nikk and liked it on his plane. We like the lightweight and like that its full castering. Now it comes with a lockout, you can lockout from the cockpit if wanted. We ended up getting a T3 and the Tundra lite. We thought the Monster Shock package included the T3 when we bought the kit, so we ended up with a tailwheel and spring we don't need. (The one that comes from kitfox. Alaska airframes) I need to post them in classified and sell them.

dbest13
01-26-2019, 11:13 AM
Funny you say that, I was under that same impression so I am now trying to do the same. I'm fortunate to live close to airframes so I might stop in to ask them if I can return it and put the credit towards a T3 and my bushwheels. I appreciate the feedback on the tundralite.

Shadowrider
01-26-2019, 12:30 PM
When I ordered my T3 I tried to talk them into taking my tailwheel back. They said I would need to return it to kitfox, and kitfox would have to work out the return. I gave up about then. But maybe you living by them can work something out? Hey if you can get my returned also I would give be willing to pay you!

dbest13
01-26-2019, 01:24 PM
I'll see what the say. If I have any luck I'll definitely let you know.

Esser
01-26-2019, 05:34 PM
I had the matco and I had strong advice on good authority to not use that tail wheel by someone with thousands of Kitfox hours. Kitfox seems to like them.

kmach
01-26-2019, 08:14 PM
I have 700 hrs with a dual fork 8" Matco , no issues, would not hesitate to buy another or recommend.

Shadowrider
01-27-2019, 09:40 PM
Our tundra lite tires should show up this Wed. We should have mine on its tires shortly to be followed by my brothers. At that point I will get photos of both. We are going to install the lock for the tundra lites, for the once in awhile times we want it. Excited to see how they look on the tires!

We are starting to see light at the end of the covering tunnel. :) I spent what seems like forever trying to figure out a way to cover the wingtips without having wrinkles and folds. Decided it was impossible, for me at least to do this. Ended up cutting a small section and finish tape covering it. Our process was using the envelope method. Covered the bottom and wrapped it around, then top covered wrapping around the bottom so the seem was on the bottom. A small cut needs to be made on the end caps to allow it to fold down and around. Once I finally developed a system is went faster. Only messed up one elevator that I made a cut too long so had to start over. Fortunately it was not glued down I was just making some pre-cuts and got in a hurry. Anyhow covering is rewarding in the fact visible progress seems to be made! Fingers are sore from all the pulling and cutting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dEv9vUXbI6T-NzTT4P8KywkxJ9dFsspda3HUt4fJF7zYGAf-qq-PVhvEe282d2cAmazwS8NwLmNU5OdG1FhT3EMOYUE-mqwJy6cnfBwE2VCxcDe93lEdgeeTJz5owaE0fFxCoVIsQ9s=w8 00
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VLm8HR8mgenS49BhLTxWvAAtgFKodQzYmMeBS1GyZQF2Za5Zwk f8tJ2Glojb6CDvlx1ck26xonSx_2NYu5aY3OqCDkoFtSr1AVP2 ld_b6Fej1z5TQP4VplXYR5rsL-SIO3yr9j4Ft9w=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sk1Us8rIQ2xEdOCew5wPlrPVHMfsBTPEFBDTMflU_1yNCbejQM VSN3jW4f0AGFbRmVcL_4vNp-gobrC2qaEifv1Vb6R4FuGlnTYSUCVgtwAzE3Oj4jMIGgoIf-k1pKo7e67cfgqAGP4=w800

You guys planning on doing oratex, I found these scissors to be very helpful. These along with regular scissors and a razor blade. Sometimes regular scissors are to big to get into the areas that need to be trimmed and you can't razor blade it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N50SOjZruN71ojREaRf6Qh1DlMBgwYMXw3QDAdeHKRMvaFvpzK jXWd8JMjp-XislOtRe494oCOQrA0TwD-uXNgzjk8gQ04GYu8u3wIW5tp6KclRB8-IESO8YOxjJU8YlwxnkQDLsF1o=w800

bbs428
01-27-2019, 10:59 PM
Sure are some great results.
Reminds me of the rc plane covering Solartex.

Nice work!

Shadowrider
01-29-2019, 02:03 PM
Finally finished the butt ribs. Yes, this is real carbon fiber. (Stickers:))

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rAPvXryV0tqaMlG-XsettzfyouCXCovsXvSwWJfyZej8Xxc1OnpSH9fGCOcOFUO10c CtvK23y4nQecMHVGCXOyS0a1jgXsznxGBDtxSZfJJpxkpYcbsL 36go4WznDww5uIGeP3ImAGw=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bec3fSiWqEHAoZfgMKiL3uZohGE2IO31Rh-zZZMudkUEu6S6YI-RneiskfYYqfPMkeqk_Puh38aKjUMjLGv7wY0o0KA400fewr84O fb-iD2S7Mcb0pVVGdquF5R_h1JO3e8BSsnGcN0=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Mbya847bm4zSHozlKPgSBRxhyl3GNc5sTFwsHcpaKAnDn45RIi Xy-HMmv2bApYe6x_BYw6Re_Xia8V9zud4IUIgP0wHw_VO32tRbS-4EiTOQtyKdZmRFFVc71plczGGo9YMD60fUk6U=w800

Shadowrider
01-29-2019, 02:06 PM
Looking for help on running the brake lines. Figure I am going to get them run into the fuselage before I turn it over. Thinking of drilling through the gear mount so not much movement of brake lines when the gear pivots. (Cabane gear) Anyone have concerns about doing this. Thinking of going where the yellow dot is and then I will run them down the side of the interior of the fuselage? Thoughts?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4p1vj2I44JTzFaD3xiNXUeuMdorLsukeHJWSSRnRSC0bgSTfvU 3nfQIHH9mfXVYfu5JVRErrgUXs4Bbvq6z5K26DOUXlaBO2eIqs-xkhabe88s4oZRMwxNpoQydOH0uqpeI7Tfk7zNo=w800

JoeRuscito
01-29-2019, 07:51 PM
Wow! Those butt ribs look amazing!

Shadowrider
02-01-2019, 08:08 AM
The tundra lite's showed up! I am very impressed with quality. Lots of machining was done and its "fit and finish" is top notch. I am very impressed with the locking mechanism. He sent a long cable that you cut to length. I think we are going to install the lever on the center console by the parking brake so its easy to use if we want. It has tension on the wheel so it won't shimmy and the bearing quality feels good. They are expensive but I think they are very worth it. Should of weighed them, but they are light!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/61WyWdQZj75brHMbfz87aitimlXzJeZxhCErEV82sC57R0TWCq TL8WeO-LJvVkp-CTQYMKWZ6cmcHnO28v1QFYVR_G9J4bd7Qx9XPgIKs-TlZp1P0OcORHFeH4EXeSYiY4qGySa99qg=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SzFl-X5UHQj_AWRlWNidzxQAfpWU09nstQ2C7mvYSF7I00Gn-UZfFe7Yf_tGxxdNSrINhoDmT_wYM26S45zC8WxAT_AWUYvgWJ0 WSgNkmjxRmCQg4ieJopwbTO4MYS7nkENh2tnqf6U=w800

bbs428
02-01-2019, 08:55 AM
Super looking butt rib! Was thinking of doing the same.

That tundra lite is very impressive piece of equipment.

Esser
02-01-2019, 11:48 AM
I still advent installed my locking mech. I think I'm going to cause taxiing in strong wind is a bare. I'd be interested to see how you end up mounting the lever.

Shadowrider
02-01-2019, 12:11 PM
We want it easily accessible and a clean look. Best we have come up with so far is center console below the brake and maybe offsetting it to the pilot side so the fuel line can pass by it. I don't have fuel lines ran yet. Anyone have a picture of fuel lines running under the center console. I am pretty sure there will be room without anything rubbing.

ken nougaret
02-01-2019, 04:02 PM
Does that $1195 price include the wheel and tire? Do you use the tail spring that came with the kit or was a new one included?

Shadowrider
02-01-2019, 06:15 PM
Yes it includes the wheel and tire. We purchased the T3 tail-spring, but I think it will attach to the stock one.

aviator79
02-01-2019, 06:25 PM
I really like those butt ribs. In wish I had finished mine nicely before Installing. Those look beautiful.

Shadowrider
02-01-2019, 06:54 PM
Thanks! I just wish they would install themselves!

Shadowrider
02-03-2019, 09:13 PM
Brakes lines from fuselage to gear are ran! I decided to drill through the gear mounts. Sealed the opening around the brake lines with some black silicone. I kept the location as tight as possible to the gear to minimize the movement. Thanks for the tip Scott, I covered with heat-shrink before installing. Next I am working on some channel pieces to run toward the from of the fuselage that I "think" I will run the brakes along with air lines and other misc wires. I will post some picture but we got the idea from Nikk.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5nT_fF3aNUTLsBkkatdgrjXspRmOy0AvbiFsdCsSBpIKvpybMT fkDW2j4QPtyjakCPPaRSIK-Vyiwb81EHivWDu6JWZyTvgmP6uKQynQIRqMRNwXSgGgT9mTg4g 95BdKH7OkyqTfr6M=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iwN5pYyAi8a1rAYvw8JzSa6Cri_K8Ai5ipARd6ZwgvWD7nJsKf KwBQEvLlguXLs03TWKVf6b6npCjcICQOsYeQq82zBPwWHkNgKv QZgfpOtnB4sdWjiWB3bofdIn8D8zL__Ssz-c57k=w800

Shadowrider
02-03-2019, 09:18 PM
Okay we got the tailwheels installed and decided to pull them outside and get a picture. I have noticed this is kind of a ritual for most builders when you get to this point, thought we would not break the tradition. We noticed the fabric pulled against gear mount on the front kitfox in this picture. We actually went back and heated it to let it release and not pull on it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q-hwLko8tJhaPH-c5KaYLhINim0xLFsU-uSKn0i4Jkq7c69z1rUrbcdJoPjTUrWqD95SFkKA502XUFjotHB pZcX60PZm59m_WaRB55PY07mHme_NYcv4_jkWpruQJJZZl--CLfAPJ3M=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/44Lvku16o4tLG9AwkjWnv3Rm_-_fYhXxTG8xWa2EgJc0zSU9oYBeVx9TGjDWQvM4AxPpJfvBzKLq WWITSzYQiqHpTNrBJfp_8iOAqG5UVlEHbouJ7Hd0jcm-P8NNeEE9gT6Y-pkOUBo=w800

Shadowrider
02-03-2019, 09:23 PM
It was a glorious day! Final peice of covering is completed. Glad I am done cutting and glueing fabric. So far we have liked oratex, but we have never done any other covering to compare. Just glad we don't have to paint the covering now. End caps and tips are tricky but once we developed a system it went pretty good. Tail was my best work so far! I know its common for some to start with rudder and elevator first because they are the smallest, but I would highly recommend doing them last. Seems like you need all your skills you will develope to make those look the best. Now we just need to run finishing tape, and its time to start installing the stab/elevator/rudder.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UjsL7OvxcLAZqwr41fKJ8l99rM_sKY3Ym4opGJ68gVGm3TJ9eh ZhWDqylw-V0-Lec57Bybt0oTKE6-PxnPmgfNAKiyYQAxiCkepEwQJ5OlEkqNNe0tFavBGAqHyYYWT1 ribQdQlDcL4=w800

efwd
02-03-2019, 09:54 PM
Looks awesome. such a different plane with that gear and tires. You may be onto something with doing the tail last. Nothing on the wings or fuselage was as challenging as the tail.

PaulSS
02-03-2019, 10:37 PM
I don't like the look of that snow but I do love the look of your machines :D

You seem to have made incredible progress and the workmanship looks great. It'll be good seeing those two Foxes flying together.

AirFox
02-04-2019, 09:14 AM
Wow Both planes look really great. Nice finish work. Good Idea going through the gear mount with the break tubing. Watching your build is great entertainment.

Scott

aviator79
02-04-2019, 09:38 AM
Beautiful! I totally agree about not doing the tail feathers first. The tires look particularly large before the rest of the plane is above them.

bbs428
02-04-2019, 11:47 AM
Great pic's!! The bush planes look very capable with the snow covered mountains in the background.
If that doesn't fire every Kitfox driver up, nothing will. :D

colospace
02-04-2019, 01:41 PM
I can't seem to spot the retractable ladders to get up into the cockpit. :rolleyes: Those tires are huge vs. my stock 6 inchers!

bholland
02-04-2019, 02:43 PM
I am using Oratex as well and totally agree with doing the tail last. I did as suggested and started with the tail and it turned out ok but now know it would have been better to have done everything in reverse.

Brett
mykitlog.com/bholland

Shadowrider
02-04-2019, 06:56 PM
Thanks guys! Another trick we have found doing finishing tapes is have a popsicle stick ready. It’s great for holding off the tape where needed or to help work out small wrinkles.

mooreaa
02-06-2019, 11:52 PM
Looking awesome Shadowrider! 2 questions, are those the Airstreak 29s? And are you going to build them both the same or will there be some differences between the two?

Shadowrider
02-07-2019, 08:06 AM
Yes they are 29”s. They will be identical, other than maybe few different colors. I had to go back to work, my real job, so not working on it right now.😔

Shadowrider
02-16-2019, 08:42 PM
So I was in FL for a couple days for work, and was able to find a guy who wanted to fly!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jpiAsLFB4St0y875o2K2ydCr0aU6HQswxgeaeJt5uHMX70Puqi F8KJpSaXldEFyQVOWAJO4ojyCoqPQ3lQhRVZkgdVmopsd0i_MS f8swWhj983bOFafIQKSo9NCyesQqwNlzJW7L_o0=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iW5JFLf8MRJ8OJouZQSW3QmUzTDdJQgPxaQefTb9fhA98sLeKP vSiXKHmUGDpLbPT_f-dkea57vfqq-vcenxwX1DiQdcjgWA89akYH0iJWy2HMPu3PP3YZIiCZNYYWLOv _P7inFJSXI=w800
It was a little rushed because work schedule changed but I was able to get my tail-wheel endorsement!

Finish tape is all complete and tail is installed for hopefully the last time. When we did the oratex we covered the tail using the envelope and started with the bottom and fished with the top wrapping around to the bottom. We opted to finish tape the bottom on the seem so finish tape is not visible from the top.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/G-NPLh7s7z5gxNdpAlbb-DIfvX7Sga0pfKjawCJMEC1rLmeAXauZw8K__yD-YqO1yIskSDw8gd2A42Y7DVNab8NbKDpndBcmIjaOe6v-GAMfdPp0QeY413kuDXY9C7rYbgdHbNzpWm0=w800



Installed the center console after wrapping it and was not happy with the recessed rivets, not being so recessed. Tore it off and started over.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q1_lXHGbqJCbLUAhB1mC-PHqu0QEZZVPkd0FmzZbqED0eHfhpgy6c-sk56tur2wULetCDhDVRNwrNpxy55TdTg8sspxexfhbS52FgU5s X9SA38TyfXl7Win6vWTNI3MRZBQiGMkB_wM=w800


Body filled the rivets and sanded smooth. Look's much better now. Also got the tail-wheel lock installed. Not a fan of the red handle, can change that later.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TMH0XltcvTeXJb15JttE5jiLWREWZBen8MQuvsjox0iqGOG_FS uSDa6-5ybtH-UHWBaoVY2ooreLvlG1QsaTbtCCYeUiPyekHRgKebXfelYA2X3E g_jt0LEaliZaqTH5EwQo-YxrDOs=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p3_NfkFKxn9WVBaNp_kZZI67W9k7aZ5Qmhbg-W4RVUGBI-AK34caM_CTQLxmS2WreRuS3FZZ2XjctwaipRS4aU6SlvTQ1Fn6 1ML31hOJTI2QSGEsRLGl3yU8CnGL72HgI4bjGXIY4ng=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gCBL77C475Ot63qWHdBbJgi1rz7m3m66CrEJhWRbgMJzTDUrXG xacvRZpgnSqghf9zUBxLXiX-fBtHV_DCdnCLRwnZjdDyAw2uTzBH6MVZawpN33nYxc2kRCJJci sl4UzYxSiBj3S4A=w800



Here is a shot of the new T3 version 2 and how I ran the cable for the tail-lock.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nBTPektbXwg9pXnxR8I1FSNB1mRaHMsXuUjXKZMKPvGg23FC3y wlQW2jEn-E0CkjEJbCWQc_OKHTqjvG7ajgBQjGgAYXv15j9COnrl1Wwhx40 TCJvfmuzsygfFCPDj5DKRBIoRixJKo=w800

Fancy Tailwheel!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i18qunZAnzWEyl6NBvADytf_DvdwCDMHWLZ-GkV_wTHTE-CLE9Q67S6NuIvJGuUJCwj9wYN6YsxyMTR4nASIELA4dIwCSpq4 gbhj1sYfk5goTF4A1pvjSYDOKwLbKdOBVX3zQWWwtaY=w800

The snow has been deep so we have been a little distracted!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2enV8M3MyM

airlina
02-17-2019, 02:54 AM
looks like you are using your newly acquired tailwheel endorsement on your sled! Nice 3 pointer! Bruce N199CL

JoeRuscito
02-21-2019, 07:20 PM
Not to bring up an only topic but I was looking back at your very clean pitot tubing routing in the wing and wondering how you attached the Tyson tubing to the ribs? Superglue by chance? Id like to try and mimic your install. Thanks!

Shadowrider
02-21-2019, 07:51 PM
Yes with medium CA. Then I got nervous on some of them vibrating and falling off so I went back and glued on with some hysol. Mainly the ones on the end of the spars.

Shadowrider
02-22-2019, 12:51 PM
Getting ready to run hard fuel lines from header tank. What is the recommend flaring tool to use? Does this one work?


https://www.amazon.com/Flexzion-Flaring-Swaging-Tool-Kit/dp/B077ZNG6ZK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1550865101&sr=8-1&keywords=aluminum+flaring+tool

ken nougaret
02-22-2019, 01:53 PM
Unfortunately no. You need 37°, not 45°.

Shadowrider
02-22-2019, 02:20 PM
Ah! Thanks! I was just reading through the instructions and noticed that. Next question is I am also working on installing the panel. I borrowed a rivet squeezer for the flapeorons. For the panel do I just need to buy a bucking bar? Any tips?

bbs428
02-22-2019, 02:31 PM
I bought a good 37 deg. flaring tool on amazon that ended up as junk.
Finally got my $$ back but it took 2 months.

I ended up ordering this tool, the one I should have bought. A bit more expensive
but works great and has excellent reviews.

Aircraft spruce - https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/flaringtools2.php?clickkey=14853
21723

Shadowrider
02-22-2019, 05:30 PM
Sweet! I will order it.

What a about the solid rivets? What did you do? Any links?

bbs428
02-22-2019, 09:42 PM
Here's the way I did it -

Haven't used any solid rivets yet so I can't say. I think I used a CCC-32 or CCC-42 cherry rivet on my panel.
With the right counter-sync it's a snap. Used a little filler and sanded smooth.

I'm not sure if I'm wrapping my panel in vinyl or painting/engraving. The cherry rivets are so far off to the top
and side edges, I doubt it will interfere with either plan. When I add the 90 deg stiffeners to the middle of the panel
for my com and auto-pilot control heads, I'll use the same process.
I did add the nut-plates to make removal easier along the bottom edge.

My plan is to lay the panel face down and wire it up. Then install the panel. Someone else on the forum did it this way.
It was simple and effective. There should be plenty of slack to lay the panel back down to troubleshoot or to remove
and replace any avionics. I was going to do a hinge but thought it might be a source of vibration noise and honestly,
it was easier this way. The K.I.S.S principle. :D

Anyways, here's a few pic's on what I got so far. Good luck with your panel!!

21730 217312173221733

efwd
02-22-2019, 10:47 PM
Oh, thats one place to use rivets I suppose. I attached those brackets with Hy-Sol

ken nougaret
02-23-2019, 06:02 AM
Ah! Thanks! I was just reading through the instructions and noticed that. Next question is I am also working on installing the panel. I borrowed a rivet squeezer for the flapeorons. For the panel do I just need to buy a bucking bar? Any tips?
No bucking bar needed on your build.

Shadowrider
02-23-2019, 05:53 PM
I guess that is where I am confused. We have a bunch of solid rivets in our kit? Are most not using them and using countersunk pull rivets instead?

ken nougaret
02-23-2019, 06:08 PM
You can squeeze those. If you don't have a rivet squeezer you can buy one starting about $80. But some have used vice grips.

jiott
02-23-2019, 08:59 PM
Yes, the kit comes with Waaaay to many solid rivets. You only use a few, maybe a few more if you use them on the flaperon trailing edges.

Shadowrider
03-06-2019, 11:02 AM
Okay back working on the STI's! Getting the avionics ordered. Quick questions on what everyone knows. Sorry I have just started reading the G3X manual but I am trying to get an order in quick to get stuff coming.
Here is what we are doing. Amazing the avionics sales guys don't know this stuff. But my question is if we do the gtx45r I need a GPS antenna (GA35) and a WAAS receiver (GPS20A) to feed the GTX45r correct?

Do I need a gps receiver/antenna for the G3X also?

G3X Touch 10" landscape
Guardian 9.7" Ipad air 2 mount
GTR20 Remote comm
Vertical power sport
GEA 24 EIS
GTX45R
GA35 WASSGPS antenna
GPS20A
(We are doing all remote mount to try and keep the CG back with the added weight of a turbo and intercooler and upgraded alternator)

Obviously there is a bunch more connectors and install kits and senors, I just outlined the major components.

tracstarr
03-06-2019, 12:35 PM
Sounds very similar to what I just put together.

With the GTX-45R yes you need the both the GA-35 and the GTR-20 which can then also feed your elt if needed. I also have the GA-26C for the G3x

You're also going to want

GDU-46X install kit
GDU AUX Connector kit
LRU Kit (GSU25, GMU11, GTP59)
GEA24 connector kit
GSU-25AHRS connector kit
GMU-11Mag C connector kit
VPX sport connector kit

I'd also recommend
TCW 3ah backup and install kit
TCW 10a trim boost if you want to use the VPX trim features


There's a lot to learn. I'm just in the middle of it myself.

Meyer
03-06-2019, 12:54 PM
I am researching the same things... tracstarr's reply is dead on. It is recommended to get the GA26-C also like he said.

JoeRuscito
03-06-2019, 12:56 PM
Okay back working on the STI's! Getting the avionics ordered. Quick questions on what everyone knows. Sorry I have just started reading the G3X manual but I am trying to get an order in quick to get stuff coming.
Here is what we are doing. Amazing the avionics sales guys don't know this stuff. But my question is if we do the gtx45r I need a GPS antenna (GA35) and a WAAS receiver (GPS20A) to feed the GTX45r correct?

Do I need a gps receiver/antenna for the G3X also?

G3X Touch 10" landscape
Guardian 9.7" Ipad air 2 mount
GTR20 Remote comm
Vertical power sport
GEA 24 EIS
GTX45R
GA35 WASSGPS antenna
GPS20A
(We are doing all remote mount to try and keep the CG back with the added weight of a turbo and intercooler and upgraded alternator)

Obviously there is a bunch more connectors and install kits and senors, I just outlined the major components.

From my limited understanding you definitely need gps20a to feed 45r. And also a gps antenna of some type (I believe there’s multiple you can choose from). I find it amazing even garmin tech contridicts themselves on these topics.

jiott
03-06-2019, 02:48 PM
Listening to you guys talk about the Garmin G3X system and installation, I am blown away by the apparent complexity compared to when I installed my Dynon Skyview system which has the exact same functions. I am probably biased and am oversimplifying the Dynon system and due to unfamiliarity am over complicating the Garmin system. However, it still seems to me that my Dynon Skyview with engine sensors, remote mode S transponder, EFIS w/WAAS GPS, ADS-B in and out, and required antennas had fewer parts and pieces, was somewhat cheaper and was a breeze to install compared to the Garmin. Admittedly I haven't done a rigorous comparison, but its just a strong feeling I get as I listen to your contortions to get everything figured out. Go ahead, shoot me down, I am saying all this good naturedly.:)

Shadowrider
03-06-2019, 02:59 PM
All I can say is hindsight is 20/20. The GSU25, GMU11, GTP59 are already installed in the wing so no reason to look back now!

Shadowrider
03-06-2019, 03:02 PM
Actually if the salesman just did a little research and new what they where talking about, would make it much easier!

Shadowrider
03-06-2019, 09:49 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies, I think I we are set on the avionics. Hoping to get them ordered shortly!

Shadowrider
03-06-2019, 10:05 PM
Thomas with Edge Performance is getting the second motor assembled. Hoping to see both soon....fingers crossed!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/va8qjMFWzkZyt2E3Z38TqurNNHxYaHNH6XghSnhuqH9nSXLNQ8 0v_tzbjWxuJmJ71PM_HF5UVyVwT582dtDqpdAaP5m3Xdxmpz3g dosZBDKu6VUHkMl0cUMAzZFVKRkwJEMMRqsB_g0=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/r14CkFRPw49e8-sqnqpk0-Ak41Cs7gFTpXM3P1Nc_jDm-CeNFvdOLVxpagGfNoPwCP2UTgWvGrBnxy5v7nGckC1ixxgmExF eBWEu_ICX_NKbUrcQWUMiUfC71oCB5oNXDCRl45RZWnE=w800

I was able to get the hard fuel lines from header tank to firewall ran.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TSouBN5-QV2Tz6Hus7kpXW1wnA2za_0WpfekeCVfdAe8BBvg5H0Zev9hBr xyjEKFfdrVCTXCX9LpNtcIBAQrNpJRcvbTwTHL27buGQ0qoSRU XCmsWZ90Y85BzzS9ebIYM9mea5Gob3U=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LXuZZ3c__-CAP0nms8Q30Uo6cturWNS1ngrLdlwq7UrgWofLCAPqVUOMaJ92 9cOoy0xjTBeIqZuXshjyjpWUm7dna1EGCd7T1l6qoW9SxYUtPY pvVIUgfxBMdwDaTgwf0FVjWzWEtlk=w800

I have heard a few say that you get cold in the winter. When we where building the cabin heater and installing the fans we hooked them up to a battery and they did not seem to move much air. So we found some direct replacement fans that move 3x the CFM and they fit exactly the same. Also noticed that I don't want the cabin heating in the summertime so I installed a shutoff. I decided on this location so I could turn it on and off easily. This will be helpful for those summer days when I find myself up in the flight levels......

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JIMoLE3AnowRq4pvXSh_1N_ZfBSD3QiN9YfwUKIO1ym7y06INa JGDvzbil9cUBXDDrLnTVhsaQnZlWOsXkNbvnRxUbOS0N-i8wRJWHtk_RIejuwwwAIEmnOug-lp_Zriuac423ug-v4=w800

Almost ready for the engine!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SWSx0ll10h4JycvGUXvWJ-5p6Z_v2G_uPKckcVk59ixlLwZb2zS3wjBUc7d-KhpA8M81qt-Q-lLGoj0d9z8TRqTBLt0zCDDQJFl8e6lGaWvzfJ5ohu1Iy7eh8u3 9T569wZZ0tB-BmZc=w800

bbs428
03-07-2019, 04:15 AM
That Edge engine mod looks great!. Is that alternator an Edge product? How many more amps than stock? Valve covers are trick as well. Good looking setup!!
I'm looking for an aftermarket valve cover solution. Not many choices out there. May end up just painting them one of the colors used on the airplane.
I discovered the same on my fans - not much air moving. Replaced them with high rpm/volume fans and all is good now. My water connections are fwd of the firewall... looking for a light ball valve and set it up on a push/pull control.

Your work looks fantastic. I really enjoy your detailed pictures.

All the best!

aviator79
03-07-2019, 07:42 AM
Will you need to modify your engine mount to clear the alternator? I know someone who was considering that alternator who said you would need to cut out the diagonal tube the runs from the top right mount to the lower left mount. I think he discussed it with J. McBean and determined that it could be done. Don't take my word for it though. It might be something to check so you aren't surprised.

Shadowrider
03-07-2019, 07:59 AM
Will you need to modify your engine mount to clear the alternator? I know someone who was considering that alternator who said you would need to cut out the diagonal tube the runs from the top right mount to the lower left mount. I think he discussed it with J. McBean and determined that it could be done. Don't take my word for it though. It might be something to check so you aren't surprised.
Yes, that diagonal brace will need to be removed. Thanks for watching out for us! On a tail tragger no concerns, on a nosesheel setup may want to strenghten it up.

Shadowrider
03-07-2019, 08:05 AM
That Edge engine mod looks great!. Is that alternator an Edge product? How many more amps than stock? Valve covers are trick as well. Good looking setup!!
I'm looking for an aftermarket valve cover solution. Not many choices out there. May end up just painting them one of the colors used on the airplane.
I discovered the same on my fans - not much air moving. Replaced them with high rpm/volume fans and all is good now. My water connections are fwd of the firewall... looking for a light ball valve and set it up on a push/pull control.

Your work looks fantastic. I really enjoy your detailed pictures.

All the best!
Yes the alternator is made by edge. 1300$. Gives you total of 50 amps. Motor mount will need to be modified as Brian pointed out. Years ago I put a heater kit on a rzr that had a valve operated by a push pull lever. Tried to find a part with no luck.

Danzer1
03-07-2019, 04:20 PM
Years ago I put a heater kit on a rzr that had a valve operated by a push pull lever. Tried to find a part with no luck.

Try this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fss-74828/overview/ (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fss-74828/overview/)

Greg

Shadowrider
03-08-2019, 06:31 PM
Try this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fss-74828/overview/ (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fss-74828/overview/)

Greg

Thank you!

bbs428
03-08-2019, 09:04 PM
Try this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fss-74828/overview/ (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fss-74828/overview/)

Greg


Wow! Talk about timing... Ordered my valve today. Thanks Greg.

jiott
03-08-2019, 10:28 PM
The valve on that link is 5/8" My heater lines are 1/2". I couldn't find a 1/2" version, but I may not have spent enough time. Greg, do you or anyone know of a 1/2" valve of that type?

Danzer1
03-09-2019, 09:03 AM
The valve on that link is 5/8" My heater lines are 1/2". I couldn't find a 1/2" version, but I may not have spent enough time. Greg, do you or anyone know of a 1/2" valve of that type?

Summit has 10 pages of Four Seasons heater valves, go here to start: https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/four-seasons-heater-valves
All will require you to get or make a cable.

Greg

Shadowrider
03-24-2019, 09:19 PM
I was hoping to report that we have our avionics and the engines........not yet. Avionics are on back-order and the engine.....we are still patiently waiting. We learned the edge 912 sti will not fit in the stock 7ss cowl. Thanks for the heads up Scott! Thomas is going to send the engines "as is" and he is working on a fix that will not be done until after the end of April. We will just need to switch out the intakes which will move the fuel rails to the other side of the intakes so they will not hit the cowl. I have been working on all the little stuff that I moved past to do later, when we are waiting on parts, which happens to be now. Also I followed others recommendation and ordered the kit from EAA to help register your aircraft. I received the N number reservation back from the FAA recently reserving our tail numbers. I filled out all the paper work and submitted our registration to the FAA. I will post the link I was given. Fingers cross I have everything I need. We are registering both aircraft under a LLC so I also sent in the articles of organization also. Here is the latest pictures! Enjoy!
https://www.eaa.org/shop/ProductCatalog/Product.aspx?ID=2583379&SubTopicID=957


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5_ZPicyDmVmvtnNj_IepebkG1KxxbLx08i5BfHs629fJ-wC1IIbGX752I5bIRLd193UlZl6zLyOcAeaSwqL3hljp0Q-RYQgKbPOkHwZpmWifSj9kJvJxD6B9mhPgtKjETI3Gv0wMk70=w 800
Decided to start making all the mounts for the remote radio, transponder, saftey trim, headseat/usb outlets, ect.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Pej6vT_3DZpSJQnWObxcZ9ybEoWod0HzFEyScPUA01kcVEBT4-j8rdku2sBB22VZ3mQ5Mhw7IEPSYIvLUVnq8VBSLgAhDguq8eZX RDs7LFlbPbW7tajxXdOjIyBQCto3PxuX12OnMI=w800

Worked on getting oil access door installed. Had to bevel the edge like others to get the door to sit flush.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CFPA3pyqZeYmx5WrGVCS9DDHGaIUI6_NkcGlZelizq2JrDKUzU vxJ4ZI4nBKEgJA49Cvwsd9afaYodY1JJu3zwQaJUhQLNyUgfP4 QqazxrpXtveXMjLm4j_bDYr3buMW8dDlqX2OcsA=w800
Solid rivets in countersunk holes are not to bad once you do a few. I used a hammer and set the door on my vise to hit. Works fine for the oil access. Then I followed others recommendations and ground down some vice grips. I think they will work fine for the other solid rivets on the cowl.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3PbFwv4HEKZYPyOqO7b5qr5HlZ9I5KZ5rTxQbM29WFye5cGiY-J8uTG4CqvlH3W9w8sw0flTkxm2Nbqi7zXBYtFGUGpXAHJThzWJ fy9T_Q4px7gKXKVdLgT1ZH4JGX4sy-YqOJ4JsDs=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EigPpUpp0wfeQKaMazz6qoxlzNUj54amUHxYXiT2S81CBGhEDN BXtsx1L2mX3RcIzuFTWGgYw3CIi8eFo2ncS_e-q7RjR9FNeNZGRU1wfDlRJRupmTFx7vF8d2TaJ9TVm-glnEDzQEs=w800
After not reading the instructions as closely as I should I got the boot cowl installed correctly. First time was a practice! Thanks again to Scott for helping!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kA7TAZ6q601OSq6E61zyFcLRankSMYEK4paE2uciznh24eK7Yo 2y6dqmlvYZQU3ZYO-rAO07gKY7ReeNX63Shg6h1l1H8_ROJdF9_ryMj1ZA6FEDKpJt1 tbi9N-SfwEgL3TSGT4p5hg=w800

Decided to sand the PVC fairings like other have done. Your not kidding these are a ton of work. These are the tools I ended up using to speed up the process. I can get a set sanded in about 3 hours. I used my grinder to take off most of the material. Then I used the orbital sander to get them flush. And the flat sander to get any waves out. Also thanks to whoever posted the dimensions on how to cut the fairings. I read it awhile ago and printed out the picture with the dimensions. Made cutting them go quick.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vU-gMqu8vXU730krIVANaf0XX8rhorEiEdkik-fU7GwvTvsbkY9hMGULT050BB3L9KarSWN5FqSFnkJh351ssxDg FNJnAOTPKg4XkjyI1VZE25eUqurR4qgGQDiJ8pSK-I2RMydyXSs=w800
Decided to mount the wings so I could get the butt ribs installed and the fairings installed also. Nice that I don't have to support the wing with only one wing on!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vidzbJ-jRhjnW87Cr-kKbhA2pWCPiTjN_6CMYsI-ocUpC6nuEYLasCU0tXeLyG9xApZY6stPITvomJn0TZf_N-4uBTyDy6V9KQcsgE54VYp3I4Teg9FuR-n2bLapPFJ-fPYWjcdNJUU=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DdklQIDoTop5XavcWM-Q2cyN2oKW63wznT-0022lg483RnRrK_PXSBeBlKXLCuZsE3d3djZq_iDUJy-M-aOOdt4iVnd4SIzi22qsTXwg5tsi4P3fOQGIeJ8ZAVeqSCiWVDR m1stOXwg=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dJQbb294r7G6fJ4oi7pqGWLjv-iNoFhRRskJVnoQ6DjxusNt6A1v-bsmCQdx__OrK8LSZxnKdvgfTldqUTzyZ8F3ubfCb9QWlKYiiyb AAXM9Hb-6WG8auNwoaPDzaz-lEbztuhkLyho=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CcDsgUB6sK8feyMhUoPEPtipgJjFc21j4emq-7tJIflvUlXJyF4b5cCBhvlPhp1HXw4VokShEPdUtQ7yrSkpfza orIbU8h2gorcpw4WYeVycj9ak3cWNcdxn3yaoj89XMHcRUZlkV yo=w800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0R4domH3oB6f3LF9cJnaHrX0qDzh1FzCR_Y41tq5Ov5HCmXHfB sn0dnEW_luoszMwY3ccfGp1Y3No9bP-z_afEeg2ivBe4TZw7A_-RdVKymuWjIqlrzH2Mu4U2pOqoQ9PkkLerjI534=w800

Lights are always fun!

DesertFox4
03-25-2019, 10:47 AM
Great progress Dustin. Nice workmanship. Liking the underwing lights too.

bbs428
03-25-2019, 07:49 PM
Watching your build move forward at a great speed. I like the lights as well.
I'll be doing my lift strut fairings soon. Cain't wait... Looks like a lot of work - ugh. :)

Shadowrider
03-25-2019, 08:54 PM
Great progress Dustin. Nice workmanship. Liking the underwing lights too.

Thanks! Having fun, being able to do things like this on an experimental!

Shadowrider
03-25-2019, 08:57 PM
Watching your build move forward at a great speed. I like the lights as well.
I'll be doing my lift strut fairings soon. Cain't wait... Looks like a lot of work - ugh. :)

Looking back the chromoly air-foiled struts where looking very good about half way through sanding the plastic ones.

aviator79
03-26-2019, 02:01 PM
I had that same thought. If I built another plane, I might go for the airfoiled struts, mostly because I think they'd be a lot more durable for ground handling. Saving many hours of sanding would be bonus.

Esser
03-26-2019, 05:21 PM
Looking back the chromoly air-foiled struts where looking very good about half way through sanding the plastic ones.


I really really have a hard time with Kitfox prices on that. A set of standard struts are $700. The aerodynamic 4130 struts are $3500 for a set. Looking on ACS I can get that aerofoil tubing for $20 a foot. 36 feet of that tubing for two struts is $720 extra. There looks to be the same amount of welding but lets say it's 4 more hours of labour at a high shop price of $100 per hour. That's still only $1120 more. So shouldn't those struts cost closer to $1800 than $3500? The math isn't adding up...

KitKarson
03-26-2019, 08:48 PM
Funny I did the same thing but I ended up buying them. I justified them by factoring in my time for prep of the fairings and the cost of painting them. I also didn’t want to continually tell my kids and friends not to push on them all the time. I can tell you that I am very happy with the quality and finish.

JoeRuscito
03-27-2019, 06:40 AM
Dustin, beautiful work! Your thread gives this hack something to aspire to ;-)

Do you have a sheet metal break? How is everyone making these custom mounting plates? Shopping it out? I have an anvil and a hammer HA but they won't be pretty!

I think I may have saw your engine being testing on instagram! They take the 912is and turbo it? What does that run you? shortens TBO?

Shadowrider
03-27-2019, 07:12 AM
Yes I have a sheet metal break, if you can call it that. I am not a fan of harbor freight, but sometimes I need a few more disposable tools.:)


This one works to do this small stuff.

https://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-bending-brake-67240.html

.060 aluminum sheet metal

Edge performance takes the 912ULS, weld the crank, upgrade the pistons, install oil squirters, new heads, fuel injects it, and then turbo it. We also put the additional alternator on it mostly because the fuel pumps draw a lot. TBO......yet to be determined 33k

JoeRuscito
03-27-2019, 07:23 AM
OO nice! I love a disposable break!

Id be interested down the road to see if they would turbo a 912is!

jiott
03-27-2019, 11:02 AM
Any local sheet metal (HVAC) shop will bend your pieces on their brake for pretty cheap if you have them all cut out and bending lines drawn on.

Shadowrider
03-27-2019, 09:18 PM
I was asked what I did to grind down vise some grips? I tried to grind them so when squeezing the rivet they are level. I did a few test to try it out. I know a bunch other have also done this. Fill free to post a picture if you like. Also this is the handy tool you can get from spruce to countersink the holes. I got two different sizes.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qatkKwjHjIG36KMEqX-fk9p-kgT4RXBGTJK6IEov_v0t7YZLRrSl9QdckZjmAehKEu1YH_HIzn SvrZQNsbGONisabhlkqe-GJQd4jnQkjLb5jM2bFgJ78nMB3dg6s-DpcwyTnl7caEo=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_r6c-pGWFM0qY5ajUkZKtb49aUj71Cn7UaQSTx0WXdPK26ne1kehxfH tBpzfx5bKSwCuJyInNxyspHDrY6Frh8hcsFAhVGAYXDw4A0NPO jhAtJFHRZC0RkxVBEc286vxBi4bJUSwVf8=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pFpN-pDF0X-cWHyHYoF3UeRKFXqSxrhK2V9bniRQuwg32tZcpFRvWxqtdq4_0 dL4tnKikE7AlV0EdsTabYIZpnfVcM2Xo3yzSKWxiIXhwSdtepS 6NIXgFKfePc_IzMsuymKZV1VsqLo=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KN7WeAv15vXqJsmLYm1JkFehbUQ9eJo1jXNE4cGa9P3a-V3BLXX1r1g08qBZH-_dYb5CkQeq6sD2-8C-zKSR6vbdNlQ5tuZ3aKaaslMdSd1S_8OHNA9f0qxyyNRLkED6Oo z8GSv5NUA=w800

KitKarson
03-31-2019, 06:39 PM
Can you post some pictures? I'm having trouble finding any. Thanks

21981219802198221983

Suprdave
03-31-2019, 07:55 PM
Those are really nice, thanks for taking pictures. I think they are a very nice upgrade...cleans up the look alot, and I bet the total weight is less than a combo of Round Tube\Fairings\Bonding\Superfill\Paint plus all the Labor on top of that.

jrevens
04-01-2019, 01:46 AM
I suspected they would be heavier. Anyone know for sure?

Esser
04-01-2019, 02:17 AM
They are lighter than round tube with fairings but I don’t have specific numbers. Brandon also informed me that A LOT of extra labour goes into the fitting and welding of these

bbs428
04-04-2019, 08:57 PM
Wow - those lift struts really are the bomb! I did the same for special tools. Appreciate the pic's!

Shadowrider
04-07-2019, 09:07 PM
Good news we have the engines! Avionics also showed up. Got to be honest, little overwhelmed by trying to figure all this stuff out. Having a little buyers remorse.....wishing we would of bought a quick panel. Also thinking the goal of flying this summer may be a little optimistic. I know that we just need to break it down into a bunch of small steps. Right now I am almost finished mounting avionics/ecu/vertical power. Still waiting on our battery from kitfox so I can get the battery mount built and finish mounting firewall stuff. I finished up the never-ending sanding on the lift struts and called uncle, dropped them off to a painter to finish. Also took our flaperons to the painter to get those painted. Almost finished cutting out the panel and getting it ready for powder coating. Its about time to order a bunch of wire and get going on starting to make the harnesses.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q50hR2GDER4hpOdgUaawAjmUppXpg6q-CVIR-H9_UzCrTFQGbcHsU8lCD6i8EB3LBGb6s5LLsSxEiFmctB2aos8 kzrpNN19RuXiLk_Bd_KKVg8KsDcQde6hFh3RJuON0Wzw677kA9 4M=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FBAiDQjkgLHJmrjqVf8hjWHrCpK3YFpKroctFj3-lYyr8NlMedj_5ZDdVVqH8TZbBxr6ufwv4lEEtyAqoK-kPeu7ZQt28VhrczGG6IadNBnC6cHjavQP19V00NsjBEEA5FLkV 10URk0=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xDt-2edpEgBtm8YUfOc4Eh3AKFwPZQjD661mcG1lqsShKNIDjx1HFw bdgmKZENlM67IKP4MxcdZZ153QHG182aQD1FU_8nqBu3xSH65m kULibOmYH7dQAu93bTz_q4Bp9sCE4q8K0AM=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IDVP3vWQHUoWab7vUSNZW6ynAWx9BWOn_g-85j12tqHuD6T-MOzL0yTLXdoENsFBRvGOQe1jzo9TNPMQQNn22WZBe_TG-geF0pUYx1OkON7VVRCuy6JtMzIXFbtUgh04YHMzECX8X5Y=w80 0
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WjulPuvejveZiTpDduG1Y3fRG50bFzSQGbDYdFHT5eGyBDvIP1 sQAym9g4pWPWHfs6gXInWJiSwe_Tn2WKvhEaLYLgQc4AFT_lme BT8pWM744ry7xUecJ0JYw9xYQtSDBYMtNoAVrpI=w800



Edge is top notch quality for sure. Everything is build quality and impressive welds and machining. Excited to see what these little engines can do!

SSFoxBuilder
04-08-2019, 12:06 AM
This is fantastic! Stoked to see your installation progress as we prep for ours.

mooreaa
04-08-2019, 02:28 PM
Wow that looks like a sweet engine! Looking forward to the details on what it takes to set it up on a Kitfox.

I think you said you were going with a Garmin setup. Does the power plan need a separate ECU like the 915? Or do you control it all through the Garmin?

Shadowrider
04-08-2019, 04:20 PM
It started life as a 912ULS, then its built into a fuel injected turbocharged motor. It runs its own ECU with the map built and tuned from Edge. When you add fuel injection you need an ECU to control fuel and boost. It spend an hour on the engine stand being tuned by Thomas. We are running the GEA 24, which will do engine monitoring to the Garmin G3x.

We went with the 914 firewall forward kit and kitfox just removed the stuff they knew we would not need or use.

jiott
04-08-2019, 04:32 PM
So Dustin, does the already hi compression of the 912uls plus the turbo boost not overstress the engine? Or does Edge change to the 912ul lower compression pistons like in the 914?

Shadowrider
04-08-2019, 04:38 PM
Different pistons than 912 and 914. They are forged and coated and have oil squirters. Lower compression heads. Crank has also been welded to handle the boost.

Shadowrider
04-14-2019, 08:07 PM
This week spent a lot of time looking and figuring........ Have been reading through Garmin install manual, and Vertical Power configuration. VX online programmer is very user friendly so far. You can go through spec out what you have and it builds a wiring diagram and pinout for you. You can assign switches and what circuits are activated by what switch. I think we will be able to figure this stuff out....fingers crossed! I am finished with cutting out the panel and just need to figure out throttle cables so I can get the last hole drilled. From there I think the panel is ready for powder coating. I decided to counter sink the rivets and filled in holes with all metal. I called the powered coating company and he recommended using ALL METAL to fill rivets. Its a pain to work with and I recommend getting the thinner to get it to lay down smooth. Was going to go with a on-off-on rocker switch for the fuel pumps that matched the other switches, but decided I wanted something different and a little better quality of a switch. Decided on a ON-OFF-ON locking switch to prevent inadvertently shutting off fuel pump. Hoping on Monday all the fuel fittings how up to get the fuel filter, fuel flow sensors, and fuel pressure regulator mounting. Then we will hang the engine and start trying to figure out an intercooler. Fills like things are going slow now that we don't really have instructions to follow so we are just trying to take it a step at a time. Thomas had wired up the engine and has all the routing of wires nicely done. Did not want to take the wireharness and route it through the firewall so we came up with a way to get the harness through the firewall. I feel it should seal up fine.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Vq83l6r8W4tpetek5MOd0YowWvISEQGWDps0mA3DuytdFjS3e8 3k-VYZdsW-6pZX59qTV2Fr_fAwei8UMfvnntxYWozT7b1GHat9sgFfrRLUOZ FlxOtCf6Q6-ZUM94qFJEysEGgPZkg=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3qSCE4jE3TQyOwthc-WgnxpCvI5_pw84BrYIDSXzQkT9RiS3o8Mnfp6m4qPIVVIUeChh qAnBgmQ7qwBEEaOO5P7oPuhpbyNnudMeM2tE2iI2xFHjgzWQpN xiiFvXefRA7vvoPybnYmE=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SBn0n8i6XCjYvTpxk3ovP_0VW2EVw2ZLACokmxbk3T_9FNriWJ OaRpe0Vx5X-ojzkIOP12Q6Xa_dNb6GfILdobp3QMEVFD9XVcW1w55zIgEJbYs-M8ZEXDbEeFVYIEWUT1__2lBihHQ=w800
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dMscJrxBKVcmzFa59dZ66EBkVdAsrNFGJtu68mu7ruO9bFvVH9 e5t9-P8O1_ipBXYhgBTuG2wptojzV2vgJQicclSCX6l6G6hjFY2O3iv 2nJIncbwsglpK2Us-AEh8GkF9PhJrihwx0=w800

rv9ralph
04-14-2019, 09:05 PM
I've also been reading about the recommended orientation of the master relay but am confused by the terminology used to describe it. The attached picture is the relay I'm using.
For my own clarity, is it recommended to be mounted as shown in the picture, with the crimped on end pointing down?
https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22039&d=1555255766

After seeing your picture of your firewall, with the contactor over the battery, and seeing this post. I think your contactor may be mounted inverted.

Ralph

efwd
04-14-2019, 09:25 PM
Im fairly certain that it does not matter what side is up. I can't find my reference but I believe it even states that they are frequently mounted this way in aerobatic planes that are capable of pulling enough G forces to overcome the magnet.

PaulSS
04-15-2019, 01:09 AM
I assume you are using a 'Star Ground' system and, for what it's worth (and only from book-read 'expertise' at that), I think your 'forest of tabs' copper plate should be isolated from the airframe and not connected to it (as it appears to be).

As I understand it, the airframe should should be grounded to the battery only through the firewall pass-through bolt. I don't claim to understand it all but I think by having your copper plate in contact with the firewall you're opening up a pathway for stray wigglies to go to ground through that plate instead of a single point (the pass-through bolt) and then onto the battery -ve.

Based on the reading I've done and, specifically the article below, I've 'designed' my ground system to look like the attachment. Yes, it is a blatant copy of the article's recommendation. I'll still use the same 'forrest of tabs' as you but instead of the bolt going through the copper plate and the firewall, I will have a wire from the isolated plate to the bolt which passes through, and is attached to, the firewall.

Will that make any difference? I genuinely don't know but I just thought I would point out that someone who seems to know what they're about says we should isolate the ground bus from the airframe/firewall.

The article:

http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/31_7/builder_spotlight/positively_negative_21028-1.html (http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/31_7/builder_spotlight/positively_negative_21028-1.html)

My diagram may appear below, depending on whether I've managed to sort out these attachment things or not :D

Av8r_Sed
04-15-2019, 04:18 AM
Hey Dustin,
I’m loving your build, it’s manificent. Everything you’ve laid out looks really well thought out.

Minor detail, but based on another post yesterday, the relay (starter?) is recommended to be mounted with the crimped cap down. Looks like you can flip it with no issue.

Shadowrider
04-15-2019, 07:09 AM
I had it mounted the other-way, but I was reviewing some photos of Nikks plane that I had. I noticed he had his mounted upside down. Trying to figure out why, then I looked at the wire routed and it made sense why it was upside down because the routing of the wire is more direct routing. Didn't think it matter on which way it was mounted??


PaulSS (https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/members/4976-PaulSS) I am defiantly not a electrical guy....did not seem that it mattered if it was grounded to the firewall or not? I figured the electricity would pass through the pass of least resistance which I figured is the pass-through? Scott turned me onto this passthrough, I will have to ask him if it matters as he has used these? (He is an electrical guy!)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lJysPwZO8T2eiJgRO4YgiFIKs3zHP0ESpJacjwuSGoZ8XCWQ7f lWabYhSu9rhz1Ul9RqFcNpBVnAgDujqufo_sr6Vtnd0CXA-zLpPG4Rb42edU_wxQqXsO7W7P7gg1yFkDHo_VpGVGE=w800

PaulSS
04-15-2019, 08:25 AM
To be honest I initially thought to set mine up exactly as you have. My thinking was why would they design a product which pretty obviously attaches to the firewall by the big bolt that goes through the copper plate. The only reason I mention isolating the plate is because of what I read in the article. Particularly:

Avionics Ground Bus—All other aircraft systems should be grounded through the avionics ground bus. This can be a "field of tabs" bus or simply a copper strip to accept ground wires from each of the systems. The avionics ground bus should not be grounded directly to the airframe. It should be locally isolated from the airframe with appropriate mounting. An 8 ga. wire should connect the avionics bus to the firewall pass-through bolt to complete the ground path.

As I say, I'm not an electrical expert and I'm 99% sure your set up would be absolutely snagless. I'm only passing on something I read :D

jrevens
04-15-2019, 08:46 AM
I assume you are using a 'Star Ground' system and, for what it's worth (and only from book-read 'expertise' at that), I think your 'forest of tabs' copper plate should be isolated from the airframe and not connected to it (as it appears to be).

As I understand it, the airframe should should be grounded to the battery only through the firewall pass-through bolt. I don't claim to understand it all but I think by having your copper plate in contact with the firewall you're opening up a pathway for stray wigglies to go to ground through that plate instead of a single point (the pass-through bolt) and then onto the battery -ve.



There is nothing wrong with using that “forest of tabs” just as is, directly mounted on the firewall. That is the way that Bob Nuckolls designed it to be installed. Literally hundreds, if not thousands, of homebuilts have used these (from B&C) in this way with no problems. Obviously, all connections should be clean & tight, and ideally sealed from air & moisture, just like all of the electrical connections.

jiott
04-15-2019, 09:07 AM
My ground cluster is mounted directly to the airframe with no problems. I believe that's what those two tabs are for that are welded to the upper angled tube behind the panel-I used them to mount a ground strip.

jrevens
04-15-2019, 09:51 AM
To be honest I initially thought to set mine up exactly as you have. My thinking was why would they design a product which pretty obviously attaches to the firewall by the big bolt that goes through the copper plate. The only reason I mention isolating the plate is because of what I read in the article. Particularly:

Avionics Ground Bus—All other aircraft systems should be grounded through the avionics ground bus. This can be a "field of tabs" bus or simply a copper strip to accept ground wires from each of the systems. The avionics ground bus should not be grounded directly to the airframe. It should be locally isolated from the airframe with appropriate mounting. An 8 ga. wire should connect the avionics bus to the firewall pass-through bolt to complete the ground path.



Just to clarify my response to this... the above quote is referencing the Avionics buss. It is recommended & common practice to run a wire from that main bolt on the forest of tabs directly to another ground point(s) on the instrument panel, for instance for the avionics, and not rely on airframe ground alone. I think that the forest of tabs would probably be more useful mounted so that the tabs are on the back side of the firewall, although some mount 2 "forests", both front & back so that you also have some easily accessed ground points in the engine compartment. There is no reason that I know of to isolate the forest of tabs with an insulator, and then connect it to the firewall/airframe with a wire (which is grounded to the firewall). "All other aircraft systems should be grounded through the avionics ground bus(sic)" is definitely incorrect, I believe. This is based on what I believe I've read by Bob Nuckolls, but as always I could be wrong, and I hope someone will correct me if so. It would be interesting to run this by Bob to get his take... I may do that.

PaulSS
04-15-2019, 07:15 PM
Hi John,

The 'danger' of my quote is that it is taken slightly out of context. It is well worth reading the article in Kitplane that I posted a link to, in order to see what the author was saying in its entirety.

The use of the 'avionics bus' term was to distinguish it between any other bus i.e. one that may have high current draw on it and should be a separate bus. I attach a picture from the article to (hopefully) better explain what I am blathering on about :D

I would, of course, be extremely interested to know what Bob has to say.